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Constant Combat
This veteran-led podcast highlights the experiences of Weapons Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, starting with their harrowing 2004 deployment to Ramadi; a 9 month combat tour which resulted in the highest casualties in a single deployment - a deployment that most Americans have never heard about. Through candid conversations surrounding these events, the series also explores earlier experiences that shaped the Marines, emphasizing their grit, humor, and humanity while aiming to honor their stories authentically.
Constant Combat
Smoking and Joking with Abu Samra - Joe Latham (part 1 of 2)
We sit down with Joe Latham from MAP-3 to trace Ramadi 2004 through first contact, running dry, and the strange comforts that kept us human.
Death felt certain on the flight in - and continued through a city that kept producing gunfights, dead ends, and hard-won momentum.
Cigarettes before firefights, javelin top-attack chaos, and the loss of Sgt Kenneth Conde frame a raw, unvarnished story of fear, grit, and brotherhood.
• Lucky troll charm and accepting mortality
• C-130 dive, first firefight, bullets like bees
• April 6 street battle and Army resupply
• Mark 19s changing momentum
• Love Actually as a release valve
• AT4 misfires and VBIED javelin shot
• North Bridge counter-fire and Mattis visit
• Hooch culture, humor, and coping
• Conde’s mentorship and death on Michigan
• Grief, bonds, and staying to lead others
• Summer operations
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story
To read an excellent book by our guest, now known as Dr. Latham, check this link: https://a.co/d/hRpn0cM
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If you like what you heard, please subscribe on your favorite podcast service or follow our webpage for direct downloads @ https://www.buzzsprout.com/2525088
If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
Let's do it, gentlemen. What are we talking about? You gonna ask questions, or you just want me to just talk?
SPEAKER_03:Well, let's start. Let's start with the easy spot. Uh starting in 2004 when we deployed, uh, tell everybody your name, what platoon you're in, and your rank and all that.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, my name is Joseph Latham. I go by Joe. Everybody knows me as Joe. Some people call me Big Joe, Smoking Joe, or Latham. Um, I was in map three in 2004, Mobile Assault Platoon. The third one.
SPEAKER_03:Yep. Nice. There you go. All right, man. Wherever you want to start.
SPEAKER_00:Talking about anything, correct? Anything went to interact. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. We've had we've we have war stories, we have people talking about how they just generally felt about the other people that were they served with, how they felt about their service in general. Yeah, yeah. What what good luck charm you had in your pocket, you know?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, yeah. I do, I wish I had my good luck charm. So I'll start with that one. Um, I was patrolling down the street, and this is like one of my favorite stories. Some some kid in Iraqi in Iraq, he walked up and he said, Abu Samra, Abu Samra, Abu Samra. I was looked down at him. He's like, This is you. So he pointed to it, and it was a black troll. So he had a little bit of a troll with pink, right? And he he actually gave it to me, and he's like, Abu Samra, Abu Samra. And Abu Samra, hopefully my memory serves me right. That means black man or black guy, it could be the N-word. I don't know what it means, but it meant something to my race. He handed me this, like, you know, them naked belly trolls with the yeah, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He handed that to me and I kept it throughout the entire deployment. I still have that thing to this day. I take it everywhere with me when I travel. That is ultimately my number one good luck charm because I feel it protected me while I was there. And I love that thing. I wish I could show it to you. I don't have it with me. I'll I'll text you guys a picture of, but it's in my like travel bag. You know how you have like a pack that you travel back, it just stays there. That's amazing. Yeah, so that is my good luck charm. I've had it since 2004. I just felt it's protecting me everywhere. I think it was like in my drop pouch the entire deployment. Then after that, I was like, oh yeah, I still have this thing. I'm keeping it. So yeah, it's my good luck charm.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it worked, man. You uh you made it out.
SPEAKER_00:So I did. I did make it out. I got lucky. Um, it's weird. While I was there, I felt that I was just going to die. I don't know if you guys had the same feeling, but I didn't think I was gonna come back home. Agreed. I had no inclination of coming back. I had no thought of it the entire time. I think the only time that I was scared during that deployment was the last two weeks that we were there. Because then that we were actually able to come back. I was like, oh my goodness, this is real. I'm gonna make it through this. Um, other than that, I just it felt like I don't know, it kind of felt like suicide, but an honorable way, you know, like an honorable death that I was just going into. I prepared myself for it. I was like, I ain't coming back. I remember celebrating. I don't know if you guys were on the same C-130 as me. I think you were. You remember, I think General Weiler now, he gave us a bottle of liquor to drink. Yeah, we were passing it around the C 130. I was like, oh my goodness, we're really gonna die. No, it was on the on the way over, not on the way back. Yeah, no, yeah. On the way over there, we had a bottle of liquor, and I was like, wow, this is real. I'm really gonna die. I was like, Well, the good thing is my family will always remember me, my memory will last forever. I'll be a hero. You know, you think about those Spartans that's like come back on your shield, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_02:That's just yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00:That's what I was thinking of the entire time um drinking that bottle made it more real for me. And then when the C-130, like I guess it dove into Iraq, into the base, and we were like all leaning to our side as we're going down. I was like, oh my goodness, that was it. After that moment, I don't think I was scared anymore. I was just like prepared to die the entire time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, you're talking about the C-130 leaning in. You so you flew up from Kuwait to Al-Assad. We didn't do that. Me and Blake drove up in the convoy to take all the vehicles up. So you didn't drive up, you came in on the C-130? No, I the C-130 going into Kuwait.
SPEAKER_02:That's what tilting down.
SPEAKER_00:I thought the plane was fucking crashing at that point. They definitely came down. I was like, all right, I'm not gonna be scared like that anymore. I'm ready to die. Because that moment I really thought I was like, the plane's crashing, you know.
SPEAKER_03:Now, to be fair, we landed three times with a broken plane with fuel and oil leaking out of those engines, and so thinking you're gonna die in the plane is absolutely reasonable. Plus, those damn planes were freezing ass cold, and it was awful. Yeah, it's not like you were flying commercial where it's all nice, like no, you're sitting on cargo nets, wedged in, and you're a big dude. I wasn't a big dude. We're like still wedged in as small as possible, yeah, all full combat gear. I don't know who you're gonna fight in the middle of the plane, but we're wearing all of our gear and fucking trying to read magazines like while you're sitting there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, just hanging out and doing a lot of thinking and reflecting, and I guess uh the the drinks help, but I figured I was like that wasn't that sanitary, right? We're all just yeah, it's true. A bottle of liquor, right? Passing it around, but um, that was a great experience. I think that experience started me out like prepared for that deployment, and then after that, obviously April 6th happened. Was it April 6th to 5th? I don't remember. It's it's all a real blur to me.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, so I mean, if you're talking about the first battle of Ramadi, the official start was April 6th. Uh, I mean, technically, a lot of people uh looked at it as April 4th because the first insurgents moved in and the first sort of pop-off ambushes happened. There was a couple of guys wounded from Echo Company, and then Morris got killed. Um, I mean, technically he got hit on the fourth and died on the fifth, and then the sixth was when everything popped off. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So yeah, on the sixth, I remember being in the back of a high back with McKenzie. Yeah, he was my dog. Um, I call him Crazy Cracker. That's just a relationship that we had at the time. We were in the back of a Humvee. We went down this road, and that was a good description of McKenzie. Yeah, right. Yeah. White guy. As we were going down the road, I just remember that there was a tree in the way. So all of a sudden, we couldn't maneuver our vehicles anymore. And then I heard a distinct sound that I've never heard before, and that was bullets flying over my head. So I'm used to being on the range and them going away from me. And I was like, Kenzie, what the hell is that? He's like, I don't know, it sounds like bees or something, something zipping. And then once he said it and he verbalized it, it like registered in our brains. It's like, we're being shot at right now. He's like, get down. So we got down, obviously. And then uh Lechard, he was our vehicle commander.
SPEAKER_03:I was gonna say, who else was in that high back, man?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, um, our driver was Neil. It was me and McKenzie in the back seat, and Lachard was in the front seat.
SPEAKER_03:And did you have an upgunner in your high back, or were you guys just all packed in riding? No, it was just me and McKenzie at that time.
SPEAKER_00:Um, there was other vehicles spaced out, but in that specific vehicle was just me and him and Lachard. And I don't know if you talk to Lechard, but that's we call him the Frenchman because he's the only black guy I've ever meet met that speaks French. He was just uh like Latham, I see him, let's go. So he just takes off running. Condi takes off running, Mackenzie takes off running, and obviously I was like, Well, this is it for me. I put a cigarette in, I lit my cigarette, and then I jumped out of the high back. So um, that was my first firefight, was that day where I uh decided to light a cigarette and then go after the enemy. So since then, everybody from my platoon knew that anytime that we got shot at, I was putting in a cigarette. Or I actually engaged with the enemy. Nice.
SPEAKER_03:Now, as I remember the story, uh Condi was running down the street and got shot in the shoulder, and Mackenzie was right there with him. And I I imagine you were nearby just given what you're saying.
SPEAKER_00:I was a little bit behind him because I had a delay. There was a pause where I had to light my cigarette. So they were um probably about 50 meters in front of me. It it was me, Shelton behind them. I think Cox actually caught up to them, and me and Vigil. Us three were together, and then of course, we started to formulate teams to bound forward on the enemy. But Mackenzie, Cox, and Condi, they were so far in front of us, like they weren't bounding. It's like they were just running and shooting at the enemy.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Now, maybe you don't remember all the overarching details, but I'll I'll ask because this is again, these are the things that I remember. And I've also I've read a bunch about this and wrote myself some notes because just in preparation to talk about it. Um, you guys were down in the south side of Ramadi because golf got ambushed and pinned down down there uh off of Easy Street. Do you remember that? And then it was you guys first, and you were the first responder, and you guys took the pressure off of golf so they could at least reinforce because they were fragmented, at least by what my understanding was. There was a couple of guys here and a couple of guys here and a couple of guys here. They were not all together, and then you guys took all the pressure off because you were in a heated firefight for hours, not like minutes. It was for hours.
SPEAKER_00:Is that sound right? I actually ran out of ammo, and the army saved me that day because Big Red One, who was the local base. So we were bounding in in firefights, we were shooting all over the street, the windows going down the street. Um, I had probably a magazine left, and I know there was problems with coordination, and this was like PFC Lance Corporal Latinum. I wasn't at that higher level at the time, right? I just knew that I was running out of ammo personally. What am I going to do? And I say maybe it was like three hours in, uh, M1113, I think that's what it is.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Now, yeah, one of those like army tank type vehicles. Yeah, the one one threes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. This guy, some colonel gets out with these yellow gloves. I remember this plain as day. He gets out with these yellow gloves and a shotgun. The sergeant major is with him, and I think it is the colonel from Big Red One. It is, yeah. Like, Marine, what do you need? I was like, ammo. And he's like, give him ammo. And this lady comes out and she just gives us pre-filled mags. So I request me all these magazines, and I was like, Yes, I'm good now. So then, like, I literally like me and Moo Moo, Julio, Julio and Denise, I call him Moo Moo. Me and Julio, we were sitting there, we were like counting our routes. We're like, man, I only have one mag left. I don't know what we're gonna do. And he said the same thing. And prior, like right after that, that vehicle just pulled up, gave us a bunch of ammo. And Sergeant Mage, like, where they at? Where'd they at? I was like, all over the fucking place. Just turn and shoot, dog. And obviously, we got our ammo and then we kept moving forward. But there was like so much chaos going on that day. Um, I don't even think my mind tracks at all.
SPEAKER_03:Right. I mean, from all reports, uh, you know, Major Harrell was coach, right? He was the guy that was standing in front of the giant detailed map back at the headquarters. I don't know if he was that day, but uh he was the only one that was able to track units because the radio chatter was so constant. And and he was moving little tiny stick pins back and forth, like, I think they're here, I think they're here. But we were just screaming over the radio. Like, I mean, you didn't have a GPS, you didn't have a drone overhead taking spot shots of you. You know, you didn't have any idea where you were. You were just moving forward towards the sound of gunfire and hoping, I don't know about you, but hoping to relieve the unit you were sent to do the QRF for.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I didn't know where that unit was. I knew where there were a couple people were at, because of course, all I seen and I was looking for, I was in the back of a vehicle. I knew we were going to go help somebody. Yep. It was an emergency, and then all of a sudden, we're getting contact. So then my mind goes back to like SOI infantry tactics, take down the enemy. So we're just hopping out of the vehicle, we're taking down enemy, and then there's more enemy. So then we're taking down more enemy, and then all of a sudden we see a Marine like, I need help, I need help. And I remember that day there was a Kevlar, one of our Kavilars filled with blood. Yep. And somebody's like, he got shot in the head. Take his Kevlar. I was like, where is the body at? It was like it went in another vehicle. It was so much chaos, I have no idea what was going on, or the coordination aspect of it at all. You know what I mean? I was just there um picking off targets or suppressing whenever I could at the time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, it it seemed to me, especially on that day, that there was an endless supply of enemy. Like there was, you know, vehicles driving on streets that were you know blocks away and dropping off as many fighters as could fit in a truck or in a car or in an ambulance. We saw that too, where ambulances would pull up and 30 dudes would jump out of the back and like just an insane amount of people. Um, do you have any idea of how many enemy you ended up seeing that day or no? A lot.
SPEAKER_00:I just know I remember myself and Shelton, we were bounding together, and I think the the fog of war that Shelton had at the time, me and him were arguing with one another because he's like, I don't see anybody. I was like, Shelton, right fucking there in that window, and so I'm shooting pop shots, and Shelton's like, I don't see him, because of course he was like worried about engaging, like he wanted to see the enemy before he engaged them. You know what I mean? Yeah, and the whole time me and him are arguing because I see him plain as day, like popping out a window. I see like the ricochets from bullets near a wall, and I'm like, shoot that window. He's like, I don't see anybody. So I just start spraying the window. I was like, keep shooting that window. And then, of course, we're bounding forward, and it was cool, like while that was going on. I would say, I hate to give this dude a compliment. Rapazo, he actually got the vehicles in order on the street, down the middle of the street. So we were like the enemy. Rapazo got, he think he was in the last vehicle. He got all the vehicles in the middle, so then we had machine gun fire. And I don't know if you remember Lance Purple Brown. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, my boy Brown. He him and Kelly started raising hell with Mark 19th, and that power, it's just like that moment, I was like, oh, we got this now. You know what I mean? So then the fear was I already thought I was gonna die. The fear was completely gone. So then I wasn't like, you know, I was doing like SOI bounting, but then I turned into like a Navy SEAL, you know what I mean? I was just like toasting down the street, you know what I mean? Because I felt like I had so much protection beside me because Brown and Kelly were like ripping things up with the Mark 19. So they'd like start exploding on a wall at a building, and then I just like turn, aim towards that building, and I somebody would pop out and we'd be able to pick them off.
SPEAKER_03:I imagine it probably served Rapazzo well because Rapazzo had been a machine gunner his whole career, and he had been mostly not in a line company, he had been in a weapons company or a cat platoon of some sort, probably his whole career. So probably moving the vehicles was a a natural move for him. So that's I mean, that's really good. And then what I remember, and this the story may not be correct, but this is just what I remember from then that uh Condi got evacued from the battlefield off in one of those 1-1-3s. Is that right? Because he was shot through the shoulder and he ended up passing out.
SPEAKER_00:No, he didn't get evacued, he got patched up, and Condi was in the middle of a firefight. So, of course, I'm like reloading my ammo, putting more cigarettes in my mouth, lighting my cigarettes, and I see Condi walk up like the biggest badass in the world. He um they cut his sleeve off of his uh blouse and they patched him up, and he's walking down the street with his hand on his rifle, with his shoulder patched up, and he wouldn't leave the firefight that day. So he's like, No, I'm staying with my platoon and we're fighting. And that's exactly what we did. So we just kept bounding forward and there was consistent contact. I mean, it was easy for us. So, like after I got into my my like badass marine mode, I was able, like as I'm walking down the street, I was able to see like rounds from the closed outer door, you know, their exterior doors, um, like their garage doors. Yeah, I guess there'd be brass there. So I'd be like, wait a minute. So I'm looking down, I was like, there's brass here, and we just got here. Let's go in this door. Big ass Silton would run through the door, and then as we get in there, you know what I mean? A guy would just be like, Oh my god, Americans, you're here, your hair. Like, you were just shooting at us. They're like, No, no, no, no, no, no, no, sir, no, so Alibaba somewhere else. He says something weird, right? I'm like, no, man, you were just shooting at us. We'd grab his rifle and it was still warm. So it was like all over the city, and that was like kind of our tell as we were like bounding down the streets. We just start, if we weren't getting engaged at the time, we'd start looking on the ground on the uh ground for brass, respect brass, and that that would give us like an inclination of which direction to go. That was like Combat Hunter before it was Combat Hunter, you know. Yeah, no shit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that's awesome, dude. And then so how did the sixth end for you? Because again, uh again, my notes that doesn't mean that any of this is correct. You guys uh ended up being reinforced near the cemetery, and then eventually you Rainmaker supported you guys, and then you got golf company back together, and then they moved their casualties back to uh to Junction City now called Camper Mati.
SPEAKER_00:I don't remember that. Yeah, okay. I think the the biggest highlight that I the last thing that I remember was the M1113s bringing us a bunch of ammunition. And then from that moment on is like a complete blank to me. I just remember Doc was asking us who got injured after we got back to um Camp Vermont. Which doc? Hurricane Point, right?
SPEAKER_03:Hurricane Point. Hurricane Point was our house, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, after we got back to Hurricane Point at the end of the day, I uh doc he did a consolidation to see who got injured at all.
SPEAKER_03:Do you remember which which doc? Was it Rake Brand or was it your platoon doc? It was my platoon doc. Doc Hughes. Hughes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Hughes was your doc.
unknown:Okay.
SPEAKER_00:Uh Doc, I forget his name, the Filipino guy. He was our doc. So we had two, and they did a quick consolidation to see if anybody got shrapnel or injured. Um, they checked out the platoons because of course that was the first combat experience that we had. Sorry. Um and then after that, we watched Love Actually. Seen that movie? Love Actually, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Well, that was your your post-combat ritual is to watch Love Actually.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's fantastic. Not all the time, but that day we watched Love Actually. We put it on um the the the TV and the hooch. It was a good time.
SPEAKER_02:I don't think I joke. Go ahead, dude. I joke with friend, I just said I you saying that I I joke sometimes with uh with friends that were that were in combat, that you can uh you can tell whether or not they actually were in the shit when you ask them what what songs did you guys listen to before you rolled out. And the more hardcore they try to suggest the music was, the more it's like, well, but if they say it was like girly, you know, like bubblegum pop stuff, it's like, oh no, you actually probably did something. Like if you were listening to Britney Spears, if you thought your your song was a Britney Spears song, I believe you. You you you did something, but you say bodies hit the floor? No, no, I don't think you probably did much.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Trying to project a lot harder than what they are, right?
SPEAKER_03:That's hilarious. So you got back on the sixth, you watched Love Actually, which uh that's fucking awesome. I bet Hugh Grant would be uh very proud to know that a bunch of battle hardened Marines literally just killed hundreds of people and then came home to watch his movie.
SPEAKER_01:And we were crying.
SPEAKER_03:I was crying in that movie.
SPEAKER_00:That was a beautiful movie. Like I was missing home, I wasn't crying about the battle. You know what I mean? That movie was literally beautiful. All of us were in tears. This is a bunch of grown men, warfighters, in tears from that freaking movie, man. And it was amazing, and then we were like talking shit to each other because it's like, you're not crying, like you're not crying. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All of us were in tears, and people were like walking away to go wipe the tears from their face. It was it was a beautiful time. I will never forget that. There's parts of the combat I'll forget, but that moment right there, I realized like we're all brothers, man, and oh yeah, human beings, we have all of these feelings, and I think that was actually a good way for us to release those like feelings that we have in that that specific moment on that day.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, man. 100% that's fucking amazing.
SPEAKER_03:So you had to retool and re-outfit the trucks, and then the morning of the seventh, you guys were first out the gate. Yeah, we were. You were you were the first out the gate on at Hurricane Point, and Condi was still with you because he wasn't, yeah, he had just stayed with, and then you took the if I remember right. Now I again you correct me because I don't know. I have this your platoon. Um, the XO went with you, right? Duke, uh, Lieutenant Wells.
SPEAKER_00:I think so. I don't remember. Never remember. I I I remember, I don't know if it was the very next day or the day after. Maybe you guys can refresh my memory. Is the next day the day that we took and there was somebody on a loudspeaker yelling at everybody?
SPEAKER_03:So that was so we it was the sixth and the seventh were just hard street fights. There was nothing, nothing like that. On the eighth was Operation County Fair, and that was like a small-scale coordinate search. There was a couple of tiny, tiny gun fights, nothing crazy. On the 10th, nothing really happened on the ninth, nothing significant anyway, bullshit patrols. And then on the 10th was the first bug hunt, and that was when they brought out those uh loudspeakers and were playing Slayer and Drowning Pool and screaming over the mics, like fuck you, you pussies, we'll fight you in the streets. Uh-huh. And that was that was the 10th. That was the 10th. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:So the 7th, 8th, and 9th. I remember we patrolled somewhere. Um, you know where North Bridge is at, and there is a street that goes along the river. Do you know that street? Nova.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Nova? That was the end of Nova, yeah. Okay. So I remember we got in contact there that day, and I think Cummings got hit. Oh, that's right. He got shot through the lung, right? He did, yes. So Cummings got hit that day on that street. And the reason I remember that is because Lachard, the Frenchman, said, Latham, put an AT4 in that building. And I was like, oh shit, I get to fire AT4 and call back. This was like my day, you know what I'm saying? As a as a missile man, I would ran up, I grabbed the AT4, I get it ready, and then boom, it misfired. So then I might have another one, boom, it misfired. All of our AT4s were duds that day. So machine gunners, they just set it off for us. Uh Brown and Kelly, and then I don't I don't know. It's just, I think after the first day, you want to do more, like you want to level up, you know what I mean? So I told Lechard, I was like, hey, next time we're in combat, I'm grabbing an AT4 and I'm shooting. He's like, okay, I don't care. Do what you want. So that's that was the very first thing that I did. I went to go grab an AT4, and they were both duds. So I wasn't, I wasn't like, I don't know. I was I was saddened because I just had to shoot with my rifle, and it's like, you know, and it's like we had we had some of the same thing.
SPEAKER_03:We had a couple of AT4 duds, and I think if I remember when we looked back at the the manufacture dates, it was like 1991 or some shit. Like they were super old AT4s that had been re-certified, recertified. I don't even know what they do. Do they open the box and like, yeah, they they smell good? Who gives a fuck? Like they don't do anything, they don't take them apart.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly, exactly. Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't make sense to me because I fired new AT4s after I've been in the Marine Corps for a while, right? Yeah, like later on training, and they come in this like foil, this wrapper, right? Yeah, yeah, like airtight. But these ones that we had, they were all they're an old wood box, yeah. One of them I couldn't get the site to open up, you know. You hit the site and it opens up, and I was like, ah, I don't I don't even need that, man. Let me put this on my shoulder, just wig it and fire it off. But it did work.
SPEAKER_02:So the the real question though is did you eventually get to fire one off?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, I did. Okay. Later on, I did fire one off, and more importantly, I got to fire a javelin. Oh yeah, tell me that, man. Nice.
SPEAKER_03:That's I mean, it's of course. Fire a fucking javelin is a big deal, especially a gun.
SPEAKER_00:We actually had a um javelin dump while we were there, where we got to fire a bunch of javelins, but McKenzie, um, he got to fire the very first javelin at a VB IED. So it was parked on the side of the road, and I think they were gonna have a tow blow it up or EOD come out to um blow up the IED, but Gunner Drake was there, he came up with us, and he said, Yeah, we're just gonna shoot a javelin at it. So I was McKenzie's a gunner. Mackenzie gets down into position, and uh Gunner said, I remember he said this directly to us, make sure you fire it on direct attack. Mackenzie and I said, We're gonna die. We're firing this motherfucker on top attack. So top attacks where it goes up in the air and then it comes down, right? Us as Lance Corpus, we don't know what the hell's going on, but the debris makes the explosion go outward, which means it comes back towards you, right? So that's probably why Gunner gave us the tip. Make sure you fire it on direct attack. So when the explosion happens, it goes away from us. Mackenzie's like, I got you, dog. Let's go. He ripped it up on top attack, and the engine of that vehicle landed behind us. So that's the first look. It's like it went up in the air, and Gunnar's like, What the fuck did you guys just do? And then boom, it hit, and then all of us were like this just like, oh man. And but the engine dropped behind us, and Brown and Cox. I don't, you guys, everybody remembers Cox. Cox like, that was fucking cool, man. That was so amazing. Here's the engine. Look, here's the engine over here. And Cox went running out to the engine. But that was the very first javelin that we got the fire. And then right after that, we got to go do a javelin dump where all of us got the fire javelins.
SPEAKER_03:My memory of that VBID was it was close to the South Bridge. Is that right? Down in uh Or was it where was that VBID?
SPEAKER_00:It was by what was that South base? You know, the base, the first I don't know if it's South.
SPEAKER_02:Combat Outpost.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Combat Outpost. That's the last base prior to going to like uh to Katum, right? The road that you go down that long road in the middle of nowhere. Yes. So it was outside of combat outposts.
SPEAKER_03:Okay.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Combat outposts was where Echo and Golf were. There was Snake Pit that was where Fox Company was. That was it, depending on which way you took to cotton. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So it was combat outposts, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, nice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So we um picked up Gunner. I think maybe Gunner was at Combat Outpost, but I don't know what happened. Gunner's like, I'm coming. And then he's like, fire direct attack. We're like, yeah, whatever, but like we're gonna die here soon enough, man. Yeah, not listening to that order.
SPEAKER_03:Excuse me, sir. You happen to be the most senior weapons expert in the entire Marine Corps. I'm Lance Corporal. I got this.
SPEAKER_00:I know, but nobody died. So we were that's awesome. Mission accomplished. It was it was accomplished, dude.
SPEAKER_03:That's awesome. And then on the 10th, you were asking about the the loudspeakers. I I truly don't I don't know where you were on the 10th. I know where Blake's platoon was, and I know where my platoon was, and I kind of know where map one was. I have no idea where map three ended up on the 10th.
SPEAKER_00:I I just remember I was bitching with Mackenzie and Shelton, and I was like, I'm tired. Like, I don't want to, I don't want to keep doing this. And we're telling him to come fight. I was like, because there was somebody like making announcements in the screen saying, like, come out, come fight. Yeah. Right now, we're not leaving. I was like, who is this dude provoking them? Who came up with this dumbass idea, right? Like, go go shoot Latham right now. Go, go shoot map three. I was like, oh, this makes no sense. Because I think I definitely had combat fatigue by then. I didn't really know what was going on. I was just there. And I swear, if I wasn't so close to my platoon, I I would have just slept in the rack. You know what I mean? But everybody was going, and you can't be left behind when something like that's happening.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, those those particular days from the from the 5th to the 10th, I don't know that I slept more than an hour or two a day. Like it just there was we, especially as the mobile assault platoons and and rainmaker and sledgehammer, being the QRF of the battalion, our op tempo was so high that you were like, oh yeah, okay, I've got I'm second out the gate. I'm third out the gate. I'm definitely not going to. I can just put on my boots and go to sleep. But you didn't, you didn't, not for those days, not for those five days. It just was impossible. And yeah, by the 10th, I was exhausted. I think I passed out in the front seat of the Humvee for 20 minutes.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:And then heard those stupid ass speakers. And I was like, okay, well, I guess we're getting in getting into another gunfight.
SPEAKER_00:Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, that was um that's a good way to start off our deployment with uh some combat right there, right? So what's the next thing you remember after that? I just remember some random days while we were there just hanging out with the platoon, days that I almost died, days that we were able to engage the enemy. And just some just some fun. So I think I will start with um pretty cool story. Me and McKenzie, we were on North Bridge. Yeah, and I think you guys were the QRF for that. Um, I was on North Bridge and Atlance Corbin post. It was a night post, it was tired, I had my Kevlar off, I had my flag jacket off. So um, me and McKenzie were taking turns smoking cigarettes. One person's looking on guard, one person's like down there smoking cigarettes. There was a 240 up there, a javelin, and obviously we had our rifles and some smoke. And I remember it was it was at night, and usually when I say, What the fuck was that? something bad happens afterwards, right? So there was these flashes off in the distance at night, and I was like, What the fuck was that? And then all of a sudden, mortar rounds drop blew, can't blew a diamond. So I was Mackenzie was it was his turn to smoke, so I was like actually looking. He called it in. I think it was a corporal at the time. He called it in and it was like, Did you see where it came from? They said, Yes. They said engage. So I get on a 240 and I just start ripping up this certain area in the darkness, right? And afterwards, I think a separate platoon, I don't know if it was your platoon or not, some platoon went out there and they've actually found the mortar contraption. Was that your platoon?
SPEAKER_03:I think that would have been me. That was you guys. I think it was one of the mortar platoons. I was on the radio listening to it and and trying to coordinate between uh bastard and blue diamond and trying to figure out who was going where.
SPEAKER_02:If that's the one, it it do you remember seeing the control? It was like angle iron that they had put on a on a screw, and then they had they were using a battery. Yeah, yes, yeah. We found that that was on the that was on the north side of the Euphrates.
SPEAKER_00:It was, yeah. Outside of our AO, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. We rolled out there.
SPEAKER_00:I remember I remember engag that engagement that day, and the car lit up. So I just start shooting into the darkness. I can't see nothing. Uh Mackenzie gets on the clue, so he's able to see at night, and he's just like walking me on target. He's like, oh, oh, oh, there's a car that lit up. Shoot it. So I just start blazing this car off into the distance. But I think we were able to talk you guys on to the position. I don't know if I actually eliminated any enemy or not that day, but we did get the contraption. And then right after that, uh, General Mattis was on that base that day. I don't know if you guys know this. And he said he wants to know who's on Northbridge that night, who engaged the enemy after he got attacked. So he actually came to Hurricane Point. I met General Mattis and Sergeant Major Kent. I think that's who it was at the time. Sergeant Major got me prepared. He's like, you're gonna get meritoriously promoted. He's gonna hook you up. I was like, all right, whatever, Sergeant Major. He's like, yeah, he wants to meet you. I meet General Mattis. He's like, you were on that bridge. It was me and Mackenzie. You were on that bridge that night. And McKenzie's like, yeah. Latham's the one that engaged the enemy that day, took care of him. He was on post, standing guard, watching everything, doing the right thing. Um uh the professional Marine, obviously, you know how I was rolling at the time. No kettle or cigarette in my mouth, hanging on, hanging, hanging on at 240. But he told General Mattis that at the time, and he's like, I got something for you. And so he's like, Sergeant Major, give it to him. So he gave us these fans. Have you ever seen those like fans that squirt that mist spray? You know what I mean? Like it's a mist fan. So he gives us this misty fan and a cigar, and I'm just like looking at this shit, and I'm like, what the fuck am I gonna do? This is like a slap in the face right now. I don't even want this shit. But I did get to meet General Mattis, and he was cool. Sorry to bet you cat was cool, but I was hoping for a coin. I would have liked to have a coin. Yeah, yeah. General coin, a flag officer coin, or a meritorious promotion, but I got neither of the two. I got a misty fan and a stale cigar. So me and Mackenzie, we hung out and we were squirting ourselves with these misty fans and smoked our stale cigars. We threw them away, and then obviously we went and got um went back to our normal cigarettes.
SPEAKER_03:That was the shit I remember is you guys smoking those cigars and being like, This is the shit I got. No medals, no fucking awards. I didn't even get a handshake. I got this shitty cigar, and I was like, it was funny, and then something else happened.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, you remember the cools that I used to smoke out there, right?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, man, we both did.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so the um they put a picture of me in the Marine Corps Times, and I had like a pack of cools in my hand. Like we were about to go on mission because I smoked all the time, right? So I had a pack of cools in my hand, and we were getting briefed by Sergeant Williams at the time. It was me and Mackenzie. We were at Cami Paint, and I had a pack of cools in my hand. They took that photo, it went in the Marine Corps Times, and then on the page beside it was the ad for cools, right? That's awesome. In the Marine Corps Times. Cools actually sent me while we were deployed there uh a box of a carton of cigarettes. So I I was hooked up during that deployment. Damn, smoked the shit out of them. I probably didn't tell you about it at the time because you smoked the same kind. I did, yeah. You were hiding from me. That was yeah, it was gonna be a long deployment. But yeah, I got a whole case of carton of cools. Damn.
SPEAKER_03:That's pretty good. That's a pretty good hookup. That's not quite as good as a a stale ass cigar and a mist fan, but I know, I know, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But yeah, the whole deployment, like stuff like that, I I just had fun, you know. I mean, what can you do? You're gonna die, you might as well have fun while you're there. Death a lot of things happened during that time frame. You remember when we got uh uh ACOGs in the middle of that deployment? Oh, yeah, that were not zeroed, and I've never saw it from an ACOG before, but I felt like I was a sniper on the post while we were this is funny. While we were on post, right after I got this RCO or ACOG, um a call comes on the radio. Any male wearing black, you're clear to engage, right? So sniper latham up there with his now scope on his uh on his rifle is just sitting there trying to pick off people, right? So I was clear to engage this guy in black. I see me see this guy in black coming down the road, and I'm like, I got him. Man, I completely missed this guy. This guy, he didn't even know I was shooting at him. That's how bad I was missing with this RCO on my rifle. Because of course it wasn't zeroed, I've never utilized it before. Yeah, I didn't know about this. The what's that line? Is it a stadia line in it? Yes, forget the name. I didn't know about that line to the shoulders, right? They're just like, here. I was like, oh yeah, I'm a sniper now, it's gonna work the same. I literally took it off and I was able to engage somebody with my iron sights better than hitting them with that A cog on. I find that hilarious. That is pretty fucking hilarious. So yeah, the deployment was full of things like that.
SPEAKER_03:I'm trying to think of other things, the other memories I have. The other memories I have with you are dodgeball and chasing you around with a pigeon, and uh you sharing uh some of your uh illicit triple X material with me. And that's that's those are my memories. Those are my I mean we interacted a lot because our hoochas were right next to each other, but those are those are uh three of my favorite wartime uh Joe Latham memories.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Dodgeball was always fun, you know, right outside the hooch. We had a good time doing that, and there's some videos on YouTube of us playing dodgeball.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Vigil took those videos and they're still there. I downloaded them so that way they're if he ever takes them down, they're still there.
SPEAKER_00:Uh-huh. And it's funny, um, the the adult material that we had. We had a pocket pussy that was in our hooch in the sink, right? So, and then the TV was in the back by the by the restroom, but the restrooms we weren't using them in the hooch. There was just a sink there, and then there was a pocket pussy in the sink. But it was funny because that pocket pussy would disappear all the time, right? Right, but then it would just like miraculously appear in the sink. So we would check on it and we would see that it's there sometimes, and sometimes it's gone, and then we'd be like looking for who actually is using it at this time, and so we go off searching, but we never found who was actually using that pocket pussy. That's hilarious. Could have been you, it wasn't me, it wasn't me. We had uh we couldn't narrow it down inside of our hooch, so we were thinking that it was uh the next hooch over.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, it could have been map too for sure, but uh I I can attest that I'd never uh I never stole the pocket pussy. The only time I came over to in into your, I mean, other than just to talk for a few minutes, but the only time I came and hung out in the hooch with you guys was to watch a couple of uh weird sci-fi TV shows. You guys always had the best videos and movies. Nobody in our hooch watched anything, but you guys had like a theater setup, it was great. I loved it, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right in the back. You were in the back, the very back corner, right? That's where the love actually went down. Love actually and man on fire during that deployment were our two movies. Oh, that's awesome!
SPEAKER_02:Man on fire, Denzel.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Denzel, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03:That's a badass movie.
SPEAKER_02:But how did how did you guys did you guys have your hoop set up? You must have had yours set up differently because in the back, that's where our more senior leadership was, and they had it divided off, and then we were kind of split down the middle and the more in the in the front. Like, how how did you guys have your hoop set up?
SPEAKER_00:Ours was different, yeah. So our senior our sergeants, they were in the front of the hooch by the front door, and then your guys were all the way in the back because they wanted to know what was going on, what it was going on, you know.
SPEAKER_03:You guys, and you guys were pretty sergeant-heavy because you had Condi and you had Williams and you had Lachard, and who else? There's I just remember you guys being very NCO heavy.
SPEAKER_00:Condi, Williams, Lachard. Julio was a corporal, yeah. Mackenzie was a corporal, yeah. And I think that was it at the time. And then I think vigil picked up corporal picked up corporal. And then we had Corporal Ryan.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's right. That's right.
SPEAKER_00:He was in R2 on the time. Is Corporal Ryan the one that crossed attacked? He did 35 and then he passed away during that deployment.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, Ryan died in November. Is that right? I think it was in November of right after in with 2-5 when he he stayed with 2-5. Yeah, I forgot about Ryan, but that's yeah. And then you guys had uh was Rapazzo your platoon sergeant?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Rapazo was our platoon sergeant, and then uh our platoon commander was Gunny Crutter. Yeah, Gunnery Sergeant Crutcher.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, who was like a spitting image of a Jay-Z. He was, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. I love that platoon. I had like black sergeants, a black platoon commander. I was like in heaven.
SPEAKER_03:That is funny. It I mean, not all the black guys were in one platoon, but it you guys were definitely pretty much dark. You were a darker platoon than the rest.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, we were, and I enjoyed it. Um I think uh that's that's like one of the reasons I stayed in because they were all sergeants and they were like good mentors to me the whole time during that deployment, even leading up to the deployment, especially Condi. And then after Condi passed away, I decided I'm gonna stay here, not gonna get out.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I I think I hung out with you guys as much as I hung out with our platoon. I the conversations that I would have with Condi were on a different mental level, which is one of the things that I appreciated the most about him. Uh, you know, in our Okinawa deployment, we used to talk shit about him, call him Farrakandi and all kinds of other stuff and fuck with him. But after I, you know, stopped fucking with him and talked to him a few times at Chow, and then you and I playing spades all the time on the Essex and Okinawa, and I got to know Condi again on a just a totally different mental plane than 99% of Marines. And it was enjoyable conversations talking about history and politics and war fighting and the nature of human psychology and just just all kinds of shit. He was just a he was a well-rounded renaissance man at very early in his life because he was young.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, he was an amazing human being. And like I said, he was like an amazing mentor. And once I felt the Marine Corps lost him, I wanted to try to fill his shoes and stay in for a while and give that back to other Marines.
SPEAKER_03:I mean, you're that way too. You're very cerebral as well. I mean, obviously, you're a doctor now, so uh, you're very cerebral as well. But that's that's a good way to honor him, man. That really is.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, thank you. I appreciate that, Matt.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Uh Connie was a big hit. He really was. I remember, I mean, that at least for map two and three, I know everybody had their you know separations, but I think our two platoons were so close just in intermixing the different peoples. And um I think that was I think that was probably the only time that I teared up, even though we had lost Morris and Morris was like a little brother to me playing cards and stuff like that, and I always hung out with him in the hooch. I didn't tear up with Morris. Uh, even though I went through all his stuff and I saw his letters home. But when Condi actually you told me that Condi got hit. You came over and told me. And you said, I don't think he's gonna make it. And you kind of described the scene, and I'll let you do that now if you want to. If you don't want to, that's fine too. I don't you don't need to relive it. But uh It's fine.
SPEAKER_00:I've I've gotten over that, but yes, I will describe that. And I didn't I don't even remember telling you.
SPEAKER_03:You did you you came over and got you gave me a cigarette out of your pack, and we sat down in that front smoke pit right in front of my hooch, and you said, I don't think he's gonna make it, and you kind of described what had happened to him, and and I do remember like literally like I think I just said fuck and shed like a tear, and I was like, This I mean, this is a this is a real loss. That was a real loss. That shit cut deep.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. Um, I remember we were on watch all night long that night, um, prior to him passing away, and then we got an order to do another sweep of what's the main street, Michigan? Michigan, yeah. Yeah, so we got an order from where we were at all night long, and we were like, all right, it's breakfast time, let's go eat. Everybody was happy because we were about to go get breakfast. They got an order to go sweep Michigan one more time prior to um returning to base. And then as we went past Junction City, and then we go all the way to the edge of our AO, flipped the bitch, U-turn, came came back. That's exactly when we got hit right before Junction City. Yeah. IED going off on their vehicle, piece of shrapnel went kind of like right between his eyebrows underneath his Kevlar. You remember how Connie used to always wear his Kevlar, like lean back a little bit, yeah, hit him right there. Once the vehicle got hit, all of us dismounted because, of course, we were in the back of the vehicle. We ran up to the vehicle to check everybody. Um somebody got injured in the back of trying to remember his name. Knackers. Knackers took a piece of shrapnel through the leg. He got Medavact. And then when I saw Condi, we pulled him out of the vehicle. All of us did together, put him in the back of the vehicle. Julio was flipping out. Muniz, he was flipping out, he just started shooting in the air because there was no enemy. Right. He couldn't see anybody at all. So he just starts shooting in the air, just pissed off, trying to see if we get shot at so that there is somebody to fight, somebody to attack. And there wasn't anybody. So all of a sudden, pressure comes back, he's like, We're we're going now. So they called into Medivac to um what's this what's the furthest base? Junction City, right?
SPEAKER_03:So Junction City was directly south over the canal, and that's where the main, that's where we stayed before we left Ramadi. That's where the army was. So the one that you're talking about furthest out, out east, out by the Habania Dam and the mountain with the graveyard. That's combat outpost.
SPEAKER_00:That's what I'm talking about. Combat outposts. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_03:That's okay. I mean, if you haven't looked at the map in 20 years, I know that's I'm I'm here drawing pictures in the in the sky, and that means shit to you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah. Um, they called in a Medivac to a combat outpost, and it was like a beautiful thing in my eyes. The Hilo was landing as we got the combat outposts, you know what I mean? So we went flying in there. Um, everybody from Junction City, they were just rushing. They like pulling him out of the vehicle, putting him into the Hilo. But I knew once we put him in the back of the Humvee that he wasn't going to make it. There was no life in his body.
SPEAKER_03:That's what you and that's what you had told me too. Uh that's almost exactly what you told me 20 years ago. Was uh I you're like, I they're like, there was you said there was a body there, but he wasn't there. That's what you said. Yeah, he was completely gone.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I knew it at that moment, and yeah, I was upset going back, and you were my reprieve during that time, right? I just needed to process and talk to somebody and pull out pull up a cigarette with somebody, and that was you. So I appreciate you providing that for me in that moment. Not that you knew what you were doing, you were just being a friend. So it's just what we did for each other back then, you know. You needed to sit and talk with somebody, everybody. You can just hey, let's sit down, let's smoke a cigarette and talk, whether it's good, whether it's bad, we were all there for one another. You know what I mean? Very much so.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that was a a particularly busy like couple of weeks because this is the my memory of my notes. Um June 21st was when the snipers were killed, uh, up there out by combat outpost. And uh Blake's platoon went and did the body recovery and took them to uh the other airbase, not to Cottom.
SPEAKER_02:Al Assad.
SPEAKER_03:Ah, thank you. Al-Assad. Yeah. And then on the 29th was when the they took the engineers out there and they rigged that place and detonated it and blew down the house where the snipers were killed. And my and this may be wrong, but I think I recall that the reason why you guys were way out there was because you were going to the area where that that it had been detonated the day prior. Because you guys were out all night on June 30th, and then Condi was killed literally on the morning of July 1st.
SPEAKER_00:July 1st, and we were going to get chow.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_00:We're out all night long. We were waiting until the chow hall opened up to get breakfast, and we're like, yeah, one more sleep. We're like, ah, one more sleep. Who ordered this? Yeah. Um is what it is.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I mean, you can get popped doing anything. You can get popped sleeping in your bed with all the incoming fire. There's no, it wasn't like there was a safe spot, but that's yeah.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.