Constant Combat

Blasts, Brotherhood, and Bench Warming - Hector Fernandez (Part 2 of 2)

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Some battles make headlines; others build the leaders who carry a generation. Our continued conversation with Hector takes us from the rooftops to the hooch, tracing how a single moment under fire with a sergeant major and an M14 recalibrated his idea of leadership for the next two decades.
We talk about memorial bands that never come off. Survivor’s guilt that doesn’t fade. Early counseling, numbness on Zoloft, and the quiet fear of being labeled unfit around recruits. Hector explains why he volunteered again and again: the mission and the team felt more honest than the silence at home. That choice had a cost, but it also forged a leader determined to pass on what he’d seen done right under pressure.

• why Ramadi 2004 rarely gets credit compared with Fallujah 
• survivor’s guilt, memorial bands, and the cost of coming home 
• counseling, Zoloft, stigma, and identity after deployment 
• volunteering for more tours to find belonging and purpose 
• leadership moments that shaped future Sergeants Major 
• letters home, care packages, music, and smoke pits 
• shifting from highbacks to up-armor and how it changed risk 
• interpreters’ stories, house searches, and life inside the city 
• the “bench warmers” slight as fuel for excellence




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SPEAKER_02:

This is part two of our interview with Hector Fernandez from Rainmaker.

SPEAKER_00:

When we were talking about a time I'll never forget, is and I don't know if uh because it was with uh with with iFabatoon. Um when we were in Mount Fuji, um, were you part of that picture that we took with all of our asses hanging out and Mount Fuji on the background?

SPEAKER_02:

Um I do remember the picture, but no, I was I got held back and was in corporal's course in Japan while all of you guys went to Japan.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, okay. Uh yeah, I remember Pace being there, uh Booty, um like a few of the guys. It was like a line of just asses and then Mount Fuji in the background. Um yeah, man.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a good memory. I remember that picture because I remember you guys looking back and having like your finger up, like yeah, like posing like uh pinup girls.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, yep, yeah. Um I think one that uh kind of stood out to me about like what you uh what was the question? What do you wish people understood about our deployment? That one kind of stood out to me, right? Uh because I feel that, you know, echoing a lot of the stuff that was said last year on the on the reunion, uh, which was like they don't talk about none of the stuff that we did, you know, which is kind of cool. Kudos to both of you for doing this, um, and kind of getting the greasy wheels kind of turning on everybody's brain, right? Because a lot of the stuff I forgot, and I'm like, oh yeah, that did happen, blah, blah, right? As you're talking about things. Um, it wasn't just combat, right? Like it was uh a big sacrifice, uh it was leadership, uh, it was uh kind of surviving in like in an impossible situation. Um that's you know one of the things like we were just fighting insurgents, we were trying to protect the city, stabilize chaos, uh, and most importantly of all, but keep each other alive, right? Um and I think like one of the things that always uh that I carry and I have carried uh with me is that the hardest part wasn't doing the deployment, it was just what followed us home, right? Uh because for the entire time, and I uh not everybody's the same, right? For the entire time of my career, the 22 plus years, uh that was me away is everything that I did, and I carry, you know, like and and it goes everywhere with me. Like I got it in 2004 and it's never left. It's been through every deployment, it's been through everything. Like it doesn't matter. I always have this thing on.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, yeah, memorial memorial bands are a big deal. It looks like yours is for Kandi. I had one, it just broke, unfortunately. So I have to get a new one. But uh, same. I wear it all the time. It's one of the few things I do wear, actually, of uh any kind of jewelry or veteran anything.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct. Um, so you know, and I I'm assuming for all of us uh that were wounded or that weren't wounded is you know that guilt or of surviving when so many others didn't, you know, that I don't think that ever leaves you, right? Um, and again, I did multiple combat deployments after the Ramadi deployment, but the one that I always refer back to is Ramadi.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

I lost many other brothers and sisters throughout uh my others, but yeah, Ramadi is the one that I always come back to.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you kind of mentioned it before, and I was gonna ask you, but now you're coming back to it anyway. You went to Edson Range almost a month after, like you reported to Edson Range basically a month after we got back from Ramadi. Yes, yeah, and then you said you were there for a little bit, but you felt like you couldn't stay. What made you feel like you couldn't stay there? Because I mean, uh three years training people how to shoot, not a bad gig, right? And most people would have enjoyed that time.

SPEAKER_00:

Um like in the beginning, I was having flashbacks, so during that time frame, um like I was acting like everything was okay, but it wasn't really okay. Sure, but I didn't want people to look at me any other way, right? Like different, and like, okay, what like okay, you're a hazard and you can be around recruits and other Marines and like all that stuff. So I started going to um kind of like counseling. I think that was like my first introduction to counseling, um, was uh a few months after because like I got promoted to sergeant April of 05, and it was somewhere around that time frame. Did you see somebody from the Navy or did you go out in town and see a private individual? No, so they sent me and by they the company um like my leadership sent me to somebody in on Main side. Okay, it was on main side, it was a civilian on main side. So I went to the city.

SPEAKER_02:

Somebody a contractor then, yeah. Somebody contracted with the Navy service. That's good.

SPEAKER_00:

Probably, yes. Um, so I did that, but then they put me on Zoloft and it was just not happening. Like those things were not it. So I auto stopped taking those, and I was like, look, I can't like I can't function, like I can't teach recruits and people how to shoot. Uh if I'm high as a sky and like all loopy and like known, like complete numbness. Um, and I think that was one of the turning points for me of me feeling that I was like, okay, what am I doing? Like, how is this impacting me as a whole, like my relationship at the time, because I was married um at the time. Um, and you know, talk about the nightmares.

SPEAKER_02:

Um, do you mind if I ask you some details about your experience with my walk?

SPEAKER_00:

I'm I'm uh I'm I'm open. Come on, brother.

SPEAKER_02:

Well, I think uh I think a lot of people end up getting trialed on antidepressant medication, and this is definitely the medical person in me speaking. Uh the side effects are are are profound for most SSRIs, uh not always, but uh for a lot of people. And the big one that a lot of dudes really hate is the sexual side effects. Were you having those too?

SPEAKER_00:

So I that I don't recall. I don't like it. It was a combined because I was drinking too, right? So I could have yeah, so it could have been anything, yeah. So it could have been a combination of both.

SPEAKER_02:

And then you said you you said you felt numb. Do you remember how long you were on Zolof? Just a rough amount estimate, like weeks, months, years.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh a couple of months, no, a couple of months. It was a couple of months, yes, and then you just quit taking them cold turkey. Yes, yes, I was like, I can't, yeah. Like, and I know you're probably like, what the fuck were you doing, bro? But I was like, No, no, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02:

But I'm just saying, like, because it's like you're not supposed to suddenly stop taking them, it can't be dangerous, but I mean, uh, you also aren't supposed to get blown up twice in a week, so you know, hey.

SPEAKER_00:

No, but like, yeah, so I was like, what like I just didn't like anything, and I felt that I was just detached from everybody. Yeah, I just felt numb and I was like, this is not me, this is not who I am. Yeah, like I need to stop. And I think that was for me potentially like one of the triggers for me to try and request to get sent back to the fleet and deploy. Like I was like, okay, this is making me uncomfortable, right? And I didn't know how to get comfortable being uncomfortable at the time, right? Um, so it was like, okay, fuck this. I can't do this shit. Like, I need to leave, I need to get off this medicine, so it's not on my record, so they don't look at me like I'm weak when I get to my next duty station. They don't, you know, just a lot of stuff. Um that's an extremely good.

SPEAKER_02:

That's an extremely good point, too, is that a lot of people look at antidepressants with a lot of stigma, which is also inappropriate because if you need it, you need it. And there are some people who definitely need it. It sounds like you were able to successfully get past it, but it it took some doing.

SPEAKER_00:

Did and I feel that how it happened, it was me getting back with the voice, like getting back to deploying, getting back to the action. Like I felt a stranger being back here, and I just wanted to deploy because for a lot of those deployments, I volunteered. Like it wasn't even a hey, your unit is deploying. It was like, hey, there's uh individual augmentation happening. Like, would you like to be part of it? And I was like, Yes, if it's going to send me away and send me, you know, into fighting and shooting and blah blah blah, like everything else, right? Like, I was like, sign me up because I'm all about it. So I think that kind of was uh gassing my feet and that was like fueling me uh to yeah, to kind of do that.

SPEAKER_02:

So I think I think a lot of us did that. Um, I can't speak for everybody, but I know a lot of other people who have said the same thing. Uh I know that's also what I did. I took an office job and I hate it and I got depressed. And I then went back as a private contractor. So same thing. I I used yeah, I used the camaraderie and the deployment and the action as my anesthesia. Yep. And it uh it worked well. It worked very well. I felt very good going back going back in.

SPEAKER_00:

That's that's how I felt all the way up until I think maybe 2015. That's when like uh I just kept deploying, so my marriage was a cluster. Sure, uh so um, you know, I was like, all right, like we weren't even living together anymore. So it was like, why are we doing this type of thing? So I kind of finished, um you know, that uh got divorced, and I think that's when it all like went down the train for a while. So it was pretty bad.

SPEAKER_02:

Now were you you were married when we deployed to Ramadi?

SPEAKER_00:

Um no, I was uh divorced when we uh deployed to Ramadi. Like I was married before I came in the Marine Corps, and when were you older when you joined no? So I was forced into a marriage because of my kids.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't suppose I knew that. You had you had children before we deployed to Ramadi?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so I have a 24, about to be 25-year-old, and a 23, about to be 24-year-old, uh, two boys. Yeah, it's crazy, man. So my youngest is contemporary with uh Jay Neal, uh Latham's son. His oldest.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh so yeah, so I was fourth marriage until before I even joined the Marine Corps because my girlfriend at the time was pregnant.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, so but I was by the time I did we deployed, I was divorced. So that didn't last.

SPEAKER_02:

Were you able to maintain a relationship with your kids while you were deployed in Ramadi?

SPEAKER_00:

No, no, no, uh, none of that. They were too little.

SPEAKER_02:

Um I guess I guess they couldn't talk on the phone and then talk as well.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but like, yeah, so yeah, they were too little, and then there was no um it was it was uh nothing was amicable uh between their mother and myself.

SPEAKER_03:

Sure.

SPEAKER_00:

So I'm gonna go to the next one.

SPEAKER_01:

I got married. I've been told it's hard to deal with uh infantry marines, uh, no matter how long they've been out. Uh you can ask my wife. So yeah, we tend to we tend we tend to have a certain view of the life of how the world works.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah, it definitely is something else.

SPEAKER_02:

So dragging you back just a touch, you mentioned uh from the reunion and from your own experience, you feel like people don't talk about the 2004 Ramadi deployment? Yes. Do you now you again? I don't get to talk to sergeant majors every day, so I'm excited. Uh in your 22 years of service, what do you think? Why why do you think that it's not talked about? Because all all kind of other units get have gotten all sorts of different things written about them. And even in the official publications, like the flag officer publications, Ramadi is often a footnote. It is not talked about in great detail like Fallujah or Baghdad or Heat or any any of these other places.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I and I feel that it was because of uh Fallujah happening simultaneously.

SPEAKER_02:

Okay.

SPEAKER_00:

So that that a lot that had a lot to do with it, right? Um, and everybody talks about Fallujah 1, Fallujah 2, but nobody talks about Ramadi.

SPEAKER_03:

Right.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. And they they even talk about Ramadi too. Yes, right, but not, you know, Ramadi. Uh everything. Uh I mean, I I even had that uh at the reunion, right? Um about you know, a little bit over a month ago, um that the focus was 2006 Ramadi.

SPEAKER_02:

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00:

You know, it's like did we forget that 2004 happened and everything that took place in 2004? Like, I don't know, I think it's just people I don't know, I don't know what it is exactly, but they're just like breezing over it, right? Uh, and not kind of knowing the greatness that we did, uh, and and all that came with it, right? And everybody that was in after, right? Myself, Layton, Latham, uh, Dahl, who's still in, Al, who's still in, right? Um, like, yeah, like nobody talks about, and it doesn't even matter how long we were in. They're like, oh yeah, you deployed. I was like, Yeah, I was in Ramadi. They're like, Oh, okay. But you were you in Fallujah? No. I went to Fallujah 07, but no, right. So nobody talked about, yeah. I just uh yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02:

I remember joking about that even when we were in Ramadi, is like, you know, there there's we're we're in the background of the musical, right? Like there's there's everything's happening in Fallujah, and we're just the background dancers. Like it's uh it's a kind of a ridiculous thing. I I don't know the reason. I think everybody else is I I think your explanation is interesting too. And a lot of people have a lot of different hypothesis as to what they think is the reason why. Hmm. I I like yours. What else you got?

SPEAKER_00:

Shit, yeah, I I I think the major the biggest one was that one, like just the Romadi piece or the Fallujah, not uh kind of like overshadowing us uh for for a long time. Cause like I said, like they talked about even when I went to the follow-on units, nobody talked about nobody, like no gunner, no nut, like nobody, nobody, yeah. Like now that I'm retired and I'm like, yeah, I was part of Ramadi, they were like, Oh, okay, yeah. Oh, yeah, I'm like, yeah, uh turn Colonel Kennedy at the time, Star Major Booker, blah, blah. And I start throwing names out, and like people start like, oh, putting two and two together now. But that wasn't happening, um, you know, for the entire time that I was in.

SPEAKER_01:

I don't remember if it was something someone said while we've been talking with people or it's something that I read. Um, but uh to add kind of a shade to what you're saying, that because Fallujah was so you know almost unhinged with what was going on, they were just barely keeping their the lid on it, and they had you know, they were you know five times the amount of people doing it, that there's several, even at that time, if you look at a lot of the notes about what was happening in Ramadi at the same time, the command would say, We're not worried about Ramadi, it's taken care of. And and and what ends up happening when that happens is that it's it's kind of like you know, it's like your your your golden child, you know, is like, well, I don't, you know, I'm not paying attention to them. I I have to deal with my problem child here, and I'm really excited when my problem child doesn't completely shit the bed, you know, they got a C on their test, and your, you know, your golden child keeps getting straight A's. And it's like, well, of course, you know. Um and I think as I've looked through a lot of kind of wrap my head around that this question, uh, I think that, at least for me, that's the one that rings the most true of like that combination of like it was so well handled that it's glossed past, and it's like, well, it couldn't have been that bad. Unless unless you actually are looking into it and being like, holy shit. You know, it was what, a few months later that they had to split it apart and give it, you know, to multiple battalions when we held it by ourselves, when Ramadi was twice the size of Fallujah and we held it by ourselves. Yeah, it and it I think it's and so I think it's like almost kind of like why in Nylon and I have had this conversation before. I don't like talking about my mil like what we did for 800 different reasons. One, it gets exhausting to try to explain all the different details. But number two, as you're telling the story, it's not that people necessarily don't believe you, but it's it's like if one of those stories was if one of our stories we would tell, it'd be like, okay. But we have 20 of those stories. It's like, okay, now you're starting to make it up. How big was the fish? But it's like, no, seriously, I'm I'm I'm under selling what what happened. And I think that's between those two things, I think is is is part of it, is is it was so absolutely insane what we did that it's almost hard to believe.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I feel that if you weren't there, just like anything else, right? If you weren't there, you don't know what happened. Yeah, you know, like yeah, if you if you didn't live through it, then it's just another anecdote for somebody else. Going back to any, and this is just my if my memory serves me correctly, like um, like I I remember uh like you when you put down like do you recall any particular humorous on or unusual event? Uh you know, uh so I do have an unusual event, and this is I may be making this shit up, I don't fucking know. Um, but I feel that remember being in a in a firefight, um and Sergeant Major Booker coming down an alley with his M14 and scope, and then getting to our squad just by himself getting to our to our yes, so far the checkpoint getting to us getting to our squad and saying, Hey, who's the squad leader? And I was like, uh, me, Sergeant Major. And then he's like, We're gonna clear this building, and I'm gonna get to the rooftop. And I just remember him literally taking over like my entire squad uh as we were like on a middle of a firefight, bounding down on a street to stop to clear a building for Sergeant Major Booker so he can get to the rooftop and have a better vantage point. Um so that I that right there to me, and I even said it when I got promoted to sergeant major, that was the moment where I was like, that's a bad motherfucker, and that's what the fuck I want to be. Like I didn't put two and two together, right? I didn't put that a in order of like at the time, right? You're like, oh, all sergeant majors are like that, and it's like, no, the fuck they're not, but that's what the fuck that's what the fuck happened to me, and that's what I wanted to emulate.

SPEAKER_02:

Um that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01:

We did get lucky with our leadership though. I mean, Booker, yeah, uh Maraki, Kennedy, yes, Carol. I mean, I can I mean I could go on and on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, every I mean, there was just a lot of good people in the right positions, and I I think we yeah, we got very fortunate. And Booker was one of those people where he was just likable, and he's still just likable, like he just for no reason. He's just got a little bit of charisma, and he's just likable.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, yeah, like they don't make leaders like that anymore. Yeah, like they don't, like you know, yeah, just don't.

SPEAKER_01:

I I got one for you. I it this conversation just made me think of it. So I think it was at the uh reunion, and since then, uh I think Nylon and I brought it up before, too. Is there is a bizarre, or at least it seems a bizarre amount of people that did Ramadi in 04 that went all the way. Like I feel like this this the statistics have to be like almost unheard of of the number of sergeant majors, the number of like generals that came from in a from a modern standpoint, probably World War II, either there's near Korea or whatever, maybe there's some other examples, maybe Vietnam, but in a more recent time period, I bet I mean you listed off four sergeant majors, right? Yeah, because you know Dahl's amass the guns, he's still active.

SPEAKER_00:

Um Leighton, uh Cao, Mangio, who was in a golf company, uh he's still active duty. Um Bom, who just retired, myself, um who is probably not talked about about a lot, but uh I served with him in two, six years later. Um, and he's going to kill me if he's listening to this or if he does, and I don't say his name uh properly, but I was about to say Justin Crohn, but it's not. But it was somebody from uh Fox Company, okay uh that in talking when I was with uh 2.6. He's like wasn't 2-4. I was like, what? He's like, yeah, man, I was in 2-4, blah blah. And we started talking, and I was like, holy shit, he retired uh the same year that I did. And yes, it was there was a lot of people, and it was weird because we the only one that I ran across was Leighton Dahl, because Dahl was uh Dahl and I like served together. I was his company first sergeant, he was my company gunny. Um when we deployed to Afghan in 2020. One other individual, but yeah, there was not a lot of oh, Seth, uh collard. Collard, uh what's his name, uh from Fox Company.

SPEAKER_02:

So Cabe from my platoon did 25 years. Uh he just retired uh a month ago, I think.

SPEAKER_00:

And Doc Contreras, I mean, and then you start talking about our senior C, yeah, Doc C, yeah, Doc C.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and then if you start talking about our seniors, you know, like uh Sergeant Major Cook, Eric Cook, my my platoon commander, he's still in. I mean, uh Coleman, uh both Colemans. Both um, I mean, in anyways, my point uh I yeah, I was I had a little bit of a point, which is no no no no we're just listing names now. No, my my question to you is is uh as someone that did this, is there something why do you think that would be? Is it is it that that shaped these people and they decided to stay in because they wanted to push it through? Or does the military did I mean you said that you didn't feel like the military viewed that service as like, oh shit, they did Ramadi, they've got something to share.

SPEAKER_00:

Um they didn't. I feel that that was uh having leaders like the ones that we had kind of forged something in us to make sure that the generations or the people that were in our care, right, and we were you know leading um had that type of leadership, right? And that type of mentorship throughout their time, um, or whatever, whether it was four or or however many years later. Um, but that at least for me, that forged me into taking bits and pieces of you know, Sergeant Major Booker, uh, you know, Cook, Coleman, like all these uh individuals, mirror key Drake, uh you know, Harding, you know, so all like all those just a combination of of things that uh I feel and then again it's just me, but like it I feel that it forged me to continue on, uh to continue that legacy.

SPEAKER_02:

Nice. Well, what did you uh I I'm gonna keep taking you back to Ramadi because that's our point, even though no fuck no, don't say sorry. This is also a super interesting piece of it, is how how many people's trajectory took them 20 years. I mean, you know, and you just mentioned you know, Harden did uh almost 20 years, I think 19 or something like that. Jordan did 20 years, like a whole bunch of guys from my platoon also.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, Jordan and I sort of together, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. And uh anyway, I was just gonna ask you, taking you back to your corporal days, what'd you do, what'd you do on your downtime when you weren't uh knocked out and going to IED classes? What'd you do? What did you do to occupy your time? Because you weren't always kicking down doors.

SPEAKER_00:

No, um, I I I feel like I I know we did get downtime, but at the time, I didn't feel like it was much.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Like, yeah, like I know it was a lot because of the rotation that we had, right? If you want to call it that, but I just didn't feel like so. I mean, I I wrote a lot of letters home. Um that that was like, yeah, I think between that year, uh my mom still has, I don't even know how many gazillion letters uh because I was just trying to write a letter home on my own.

SPEAKER_02:

We were literally just talking about this before you got on as let writing letters home. And and so you're writing your mom. Who else were you writing? I didn't know very few.

SPEAKER_00:

It was mainly my mom.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah, it was mainly my mom and my family that I was writing to uh a lot of the times, like when I was coming back, I was getting a lot of uh you know, through snail mail, the you know, care packages and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, did anything good in those care packages?

SPEAKER_00:

I all I was trying to get was a lot of uh like the Puerto Rican candy that I couldn't get, you know, anywhere anywhere. Flavors of home, man. Nothing wrong with that. Like, yeah, anything that can so that was pretty much like my listening to music and the CD players. Uh yeah, uh having a CD player and having scratched up CDs after the deployment uh from all the sand and everything else uh on it. Um I didn't really lift weights like everybody else did, or or you know, I wasn't much into that. Um, but it was really bullshitting, man, with everybody else. Uh anything to to kind of stay sane um and kind of keep the the calm uh and and all the adversity that we were facing.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you have any of the you're saying that one of my favorite things was trying to get to uh if we got to go to another base? Mostly because I was always I was always a hungry recruit. And so I was uh always looking for you were a double striper. Yeah I really was. No. Uh but wanting wanting, you know, Blue Diamond heads, you know, it was always a fun run. Uh, but I I wasn't sure.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you uh did you have a couple of those that you were always I went to Blue Diamond maybe a few times. Um and then I mean obviously that week that I was doing that ID course, I uh I ate like a champ the entire time at that name. At the uh it was an army base, uh, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

Junction City was all was mostly army. There was a CB unit there too.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, CBs, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, um, so I remember eating a lot, like my life depended on it. Um, because I knew that emeries and bottled waters and all that stuff was uh, you know, kind of waiting or powdered eggs. Uh, you know, let's put some put some water in these things and heat them up so we can serve chow. Uh so that's funny, dude. Yeah, but like it was mainly writing letters and listening to music. I don't know. That's how I kind of kill my time and just BSing with other people.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh at the uh you spent a lot of time in the smoke pit, or you did you play cards or anything?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I I did uh smoke a lot. I think that's when I started smoking uh like heavily because I didn't before.

SPEAKER_02:

I was gonna say, I don't remember you smoking in Okinawa. I did, but you didn't. Yeah, I do remember you smoking in Ramadi.

SPEAKER_00:

In Ramadi, yeah. It was just like, oh, like everybody else was doing it. So it was like, hey, let's go smoke a cigarette and just go shoot the shit at the smoke pit. Or uh hey, it's my turn at the burn pit. Let me go to the burn pit and like do whatever.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh it's funny you mentioned the burn pits. It seems like not nobody, but it's not mentioned as one of the the big burn pit places. But we had a giant burn pit though, yeah. Ammo and plastics and trash and shit and everything else. Yes. How often did you go out to the burn pits?

SPEAKER_00:

I think I think the only times that I went to the burn pit was when we were on guard, like during the rotation, because that's a time that we were able to like go and help or whatever. But it was like I I feel that that was at the rotation when we were on guard that I would go out to the uh to the burn pit.

SPEAKER_02:

Did you end up going did you end up going on the bridge post too, or were you always on radio?

SPEAKER_00:

I did no, so I did the post right there, right next to the bridge.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh I mean North Bridge was one of them, and then there was South Bridge, was the other. That was the two bridges.

SPEAKER_00:

The one close the one closest to us. Was that north?

SPEAKER_02:

North Bridge would have been closer to our hooches, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so I I did guard there once, but then most of the other time I was used as a COG.

SPEAKER_02:

But I think I did make a good corporal to guard, you go up and make all the relief and check and make sure people weren't sleeping.

SPEAKER_00:

I tried. Yeah, I tried. I tried. Did you have a good luck charm? Um, I had a little rush. Uh so my mom, uh very uh religious, and I kind of grew up in that Roman Catholic environment and church going every Saturday and Sunday and stuff like that. So I did have a uh a little kind of like a charm, uh St. Michael uh charm and a little kind of like letter that I carried uh with me uh throughout the entire deployment.

SPEAKER_01:

So do you have any rituals that went with that or just as long as it was on you?

SPEAKER_00:

No, as long as I didn't have no rituals per se. I just had it on me. Um I remember having it on on the uh on the it was on the side, on one of the sleeves on the side. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and I and I continue that for many of my other deployments as well. Um, so yeah, it's one of the things that I always did.

SPEAKER_02:

You wrote a lot or a lot of letters home. I'm curious. I don't know nobody else has ever mentioned it, but I'm curious now. Did you write a death letter? Something that they were supposed to send home if you died? No.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, that is yeah, that is a great question. No, I never did.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_02:

That's good. You're hopeful.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I never did. Uh I mean, I think some of them, uh, if not most of them, were about how scared I was and like, you know, like how dreadful these things were. Like now that I got read a few, I haven't read all of them, but like my mom kind of goes through you know a cycle of oh, look what you sent me back in you know 1775. Um, you know. Um so uh yeah, like I was like, holy shit, what a fucking pussy I was. Like I was just writing scared of it. You're a young man, it's all right. Like, I'm a fucking man, but in those letters, M-A-N was not fucking a word for them.

SPEAKER_02:

Nothing wrong with being vulnerable with your mom.

SPEAKER_01:

When you were back in the hoochas, did you end up going over to the other uh I know because you got pulled out of that like the cat platoons and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00:

So that's yeah, that would have been your core group, but yes. Um to where uh Vigil and Cox and Movies and yeah, map three, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh where Condi was and stuff like that. Um, and I guess because weird because Candy and I, like when I enlisted, uh I enlisted from here from Florida, right? Kissing me and Candy enlisted from Orlando. We kind of like whenever he came to the platoon, it's like we forged like this like bond like right away. Plus, he was half Puerto Rican and blah blah, you know, so we had a lot of things kind of like in common um to begin with. But yeah, like map three was one of the hoochas that I used to go to the most uh on like downtime or whatever to check up on people and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02:

I do imagine that was pretty strange because you were a 51 and you were with iFav, which turned into map three.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

And you were with, and you know, we did anti-armor platoon for a while, which was all of us tow gunners and and javelin gunners all together. And then you got split off and thrown into the 81s. Was it was it a culture shock to go over to the 81s?

SPEAKER_00:

Was it and it was, and I felt I was like, fuck, they don't fucking want me. Like they sent me, it's literally like I felt like I was like the bastard child. Um, I was like, they I didn't ask to go uh being fat out, I didn't ask for that. So now that I'm trying to come back to my platoon, they're trying to send me fucking somewhere else. Um, so I kind of felt like a little betrayal in the beginning. And then once I saw, like I started kind of like big building relationships with everybody in that platoon, then you know I was like, whatever. Um, but in the beginning, I was like, this is fucked up. Like, why did they send me away? Like, did like I might um was I not good enough? Like I started kind of doubting myself in the beginning, a little bit to be honest with you, uh, as to why they had sent me over to some other platoon. I didn't see the big picture, right? I'm looking at the micro level when they're looking at the macro level.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it feels very personal, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, so yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Did you notice much of a of a of a difference between the way that 81s ran themselves versus uh the other where you came from? Or was it a pretty was it pretty easy to transition?

SPEAKER_00:

It was, and I feel a lot has to do with uh Sergeant Garcia. Yeah, like it was a lot because like he didn't make me feel kind of like an outsider. So because he was well respected in that platoon, like they were like, Oh, if Sergeant G is hanging out with him, he must be cool or blah blah blah, like you know, like I I feel that that was a lot to do with it. Like, I don't think it was me in the beginning, it was more how Sergeant G treated me to where how else everybody else kind of like looked at me and kind of started bonding with me and stuff like that and taking me in.

SPEAKER_02:

So anybody on the outside listening to this conversation that has to sound like prison, like, oh man, that prisoner took me in and they didn't they weren't gonna kill me. Like but it's funny, it's funny how we talked about it before, how I don't know, there was like a rivalry always between different platoons, and you always thought the other guys were stupid, like it didn't matter who everybody else was stupid.

SPEAKER_00:

Your platoon 81, playing fucking cars and whatever.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Always thought the other guys were something wrong with them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, but yeah, like I I I feel that a lot had to do with uh Swan Garcia, yeah, like just taking me in and kind of saying, Okay, boom, this is kind of like essentially saying he may not have chosen to be here, but he's here and we're gonna treat him like family.

SPEAKER_02:

So yeah, and you were one of the first ones who were kind of intermixed, which is funny because after April we reshuffled the platoons in multiple ways, and guys went all different directions, and tow gunners went over, and and 81s moved over, and like it we really mixed it up, and so it's you were kind of just the first experiment to see if it's work, I guess.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, it was uh crazy.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, man. What else you got, man? I'm not gonna force you to to share anything, but if you got anything else, that's good. This has been great, bro.

SPEAKER_00:

I feel I feel like everybody, you know, sh uh that kind of I don't want to say doubt it, but like kind of I wish like everybody that doubted what our capability, you know, I wish they could see us now, right? Like what we were capable of. Um, and that's just from every leader in the military, on like, like, right. So we go back to when we got extended, right? Uh in Okinawa, in Okinawa.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I know we're talking about, but I I feel that because we took that, you know, that hurt us, like that hurt our pride. I think it was like we're coming with a vengeance when we got sent. Like, we're gonna show them, right? Why them leaving us behind was like the worst decision they could have ever made. I feel that that's potentially like what drove some of us, right? Like, okay, you screwed up, you said we were bench warmers. Okay, I'm gonna show you what we're all about, right?

SPEAKER_02:

I think every single person we've talked to has remembered the bench warmer speech. Bench warmers, yeah. I hope that I'm not gonna say that general's name because fuck him. Yeah, but I hope he knows how much he pissed off that entire battalion, and that's that's yeah, that was some bullshit to say that we're bench warmers for for the the war of our generation, essentially.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, and I that's what I'm saying. Like, I feel like it just kind of that was like it fueled us to strive to to be in excellence, right? Like during that deployment, yeah. At least that's how I feel, like, yeah, that's how I kind of took it. Nice.

SPEAKER_01:

Now, I as we said earlier in this, and I know Nylan's probably sick of me saying it, but it uh I really believe uh part of the our success of Ramadi had to do with such a large core of us coming up at such a weird time. Like you you can't replicate how bizarre that our peer group was of that 01 to the deployment. It was just a weird set of things that shaped us to be able to do Ramadi. If I mean that to I I never thought about the bench warmer speech kind of being a uh a little bit of a of a catalyst for it. But I do recognize like us being in violent involuntarily extended over there, the amount of angry, angry people that it like we were so angry coming into our deployment, like like it it was it was a year later, but we were still ready to ready to go. That I don't know if our uh our hearts and minds would have been in it in the same way, uh if we wouldn't have had those experiences.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, completely agree a hundred percent. Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Like I feel that that that was like one of those turning points for us, um, or at least for me, right? I don't want to speak for everybody, but like at least for me, it were like I will always remember that. And I was like, all right, so here's I'll show you bench warmers type of thing, right? Um, and yeah, it was just like epic to to kind of see how everything kind of flourished. What else?

SPEAKER_01:

Do you have any memories of uh interacting with any of the Iraqis specifically or the uh the police or the ICDC or anything like that?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I remember uh Rock was it Rocco or Turp? Yeah, I was like Leave interpreter, yes. I was like, how the fuck did this guy get so fucking big? Like I remember him. Yes, but like I was like, how the hell like everybody else is just scrawny or with a big belly, and then you have Hulk Hogan on steroids over there, like huge, like so. I remember like so that was like my only kind of per se interaction. Uh, because I don't remember having anything else with anybody else, uh, even at the government center. I was one of the minions, right? So I wasn't really like in those places uh during that time frame. Other diplomats, yeah, but not that one.

SPEAKER_02:

Now it sounds like you kicked down a few doors, though. Did you interact with people while you were in their houses and things like that?

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, with yeah, um, and then the uh little bit of Arabic that we knew at the time or the non-existent Arabic that we knew at the time. Um yeah, uh, like where's the terp? Uh, but it it was main like I don't recall interacting with a lot of females uh throughout the deployment. I bring I recall a lot of males, like it was like an overwhelming amount of males, whether it was searching houses or saying, hey, I I know you saw something, like just trying to question and trying to get validity for things that were happening around us. Um, but there were, yes, I kicked down doors, but I just feel like it was more of like, okay, I'm kicking down and then I'm gonna set security. And then like everybody else kind of came in and was doing the whole speaking piece more so than what I uh was able to experience.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you mentioned Rocco had an interesting story, just talking about Rocco, because he it was him and his brother were both interpreters for the United States military, and they would alternate. One of them would go work somewhere, and I don't know where he was from, but that he would go work and then one of them would do the interpreting and they would save up the money and then they would switch. Yeah, it was a very unique opportunity for them uh to earn a little extra money, and I think their plan was to go to the United States, and I had always heard rumors that they had somehow made it to the United States, but I don't know if that ever actually happened.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I don't know. That uh it'd be kind of cool to he'd be an interesting fellow to interview.

SPEAKER_02:

I would love yes, I would love to hear his perspective about that. I I wouldn't even know where to start to get a hold of him if he's even still alive.

SPEAKER_01:

I remember correctly, we ended with three. It was Danny Wilbur and Rocco.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay, see, I don't remember the other two. I just for whatever reason, I just remember Rocco.

SPEAKER_01:

I was I was pretty friendly with Wilbur. Pasm was his his his his Arabic name, his real name. Okay. Yeah, I don't I don't know what happened to the other two. I don't think Pasm's around anymore, so I think he got caught up in the Arab Spring stuff. Do you remember the transition from uh highbacks to uh up armor? Did that change your life much?

SPEAKER_00:

It did. I think I used to I used to be yeah, I used to be scared to leave the wire and those highbacks, man.

SPEAKER_01:

I think 81s, didn't you guys keep one of the highbacks? Didn't you guys keep the yeah you you went over to uh up armor?

SPEAKER_00:

I I think I did, yeah. I think I did go, yeah. I think I I want to say I did. I don't think I stayed the entire deployment in a on a high back. Um, but I remember uh being so scared, man, like just crouching down. Uh remember how we had like the the L-shaped type doors or whatever, like yeah, three-quarter doors, yeah. Three quarters, yeah. Um so you know, I remember just being scared and like crouching down. Like when you tell people like that, those stories, they're like, What? And you're like, Yes, motherfucker, look at the fucking picture. No doors, vinyl doors, welded bullshit armor. Yeah, like yeah, like people don't fucking believe you, like sandbags on the fucking floor, like so many sandbags on the floor that your knees fucking hurt because they were fucking bent in all kinds of fucking ways to make sure that you were somehow protected.

SPEAKER_02:

Yep. Anything to absorb a little shrapnel, yes.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, yeah, they they I mean, through all my other deployments as well, we had uh eye backs that were up that were a little bit better though. Yeah, um what was the difference? Um so they had the up armor vehicle doors, okay. Um and then they had a little bit like they had welded armor, like no kidding armor on the outside. So they had tried to kind of like transform it uh uh and into that, but we still kept quite a few um quite a few uh highbacks uh for a couple of my deployments following.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, they're just useful for Medivac and that kind of stuff. Trying to put anybody into one of the enclosed vehicles when they were injured was especially with the amount of ammo we were carrying, was almost impossible.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_02:

And if you have to, I mean again, you're talking about you were rounding up uh detainees and stuff like that. You can't put detainees in a regular Hum V. There's no place to put them. I mean, you can fold them up and put them in the back, but even then you'll get one or two. Yeah. This has been good, bro. This is good enough. We can always bring you back if you wanna if you think of something, you want to talk again, if you listen to other people's bullshit and you're like, nah, man, I want to comment on what, especially like what you're like, Latham is full of shit. I want to tell everybody.

SPEAKER_01:

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