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Constant Combat
This veteran-led podcast highlights the experiences of Weapons Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, starting with their harrowing 2004 deployment to Ramadi; a 9 month combat tour which resulted in the highest casualties in a single deployment - a deployment that most Americans have never heard about. Through candid conversations surrounding these events, the series also explores earlier experiences that shaped the Marines, emphasizing their grit, humor, and humanity while aiming to honor their stories authentically.
Constant Combat
Morale, Morality and Mortality - Dave Dobb (Part 2 of 2)
Our continued conversation with Dave Dobb pulls you straight into Ramadi 2004. A plywood roof full of bullet holes. A windshield that wasn’t ballistic. Buzz Lightyear “earning” a Purple Heart. Dave relives the ambush on the 7th, the massive IED on the 12th, and the aftermath that forced immediate security, fast decisions, and the unglamorous work of keeping everyone alive while expecting the next hit.
• Ambush on the 7th and the massive IED on the 12th
• Triage decisions, perimeter security, and second-blast risk
• Informal After Action Reports shaping tactics, routes, and OPs
• Vehicle overload, improvised armor, and broken transmissions
• The log train fiasco and friction with 2/5 during turnover
• Driving urgency, leadership presence, and command culture
• “Bearded ladies” standby order, one-night relief, reinstatement
• Rotation rhythm, radios, and scarce downtime
• Coming home, recruiting duty perspective, and hearing-loss appeals
• Awards process challenges and Savage’s posthumous recognition
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If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
This is part two of our conversation with Dave Dom, first lieutenant and platoon commander for Rainmaker Platoon.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I you know I carried that, you know, and then you know, obviously you can't let it affect you at the time, but you know, having been from golf company, you know, they had a couple of casualties that hit hit me pretty hard too. And um Todd Bolding being one of them, you know, I was pretty close to Todd when he was in when I was in golf company and he had come over, he had volunteered to come over from weapons, uh two weapons platoon. So I got to know him very well. So when we lost him, you know, that hit hard too. And and just a side story too. I had a there's two Marines that actually went to my same high school that were a couple years behind me. One was in golf company, Rob Meyer, and then um and then Russ Bullock in Fox Company, who was in as well. So then those two, you know, we had family connections among the two of us too. So I was you know constantly trying to, you know, keep up with them, and whenever casualty reports would come in, I would keep in a close tab on on those guys, and then as well as all of the Marines that I had in golf company. So just you know, May 12, you know, was kind of the you know, is really where that escalated, but you know, throughout that whole time, you know, you're just constantly, you know, without becoming you can't become you know preoccupied with it, but it's something that's always in the back of your mind is you know, all of these guys that you know you're responsible for now, or you were a short time ago.
SPEAKER_02:And did you end up getting wounded yourself? I don't recall. I I know when May 12th happened and it was your truck that got hit. Did you end up getting wounded in that attack, or did you get wounded in another one?
SPEAKER_00:So I was wounded on the 7th on the ambush when we uh down south. So I took I took um shrapnel to my hand pretty superficial on that day. But that's also the day that the plywood that was above me uh received a lot of holes, bullet holes in the plywood because there was people up high on top of the house as well. So we had rounds coming through the cab, um, through the plywood, uh, through the windshield, because we didn't have, you know, that we didn't we didn't have the bulletproof glass of that. We just just some normal windshields. So there's a photo of of that when we got back to the combat outpost later that day with the recovered machine gun of you know, kind of me sitting in the in the cabin of the high back with holes in the plywood above my head, holes in the windshield, and then Regelsberger had the little uh oh, who was the he had a little cartoon, a little stuffed animal.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_00:Buzz Lightyear. Buzz Lightyear that's the day that Buzz Lightyear received the purple heart as well, because he took he took a bullet through the leg. So um yeah, so just on the 7th, and then the the 12th was you know that IED, and I I think it's well documented, but that was a massive IED that that hit us in Flame Savage on the 12th. So I you know, I just remember the aftermath of that. I mean, we had kind of we had ended up, you know, we had gone off the roadway, you know, down into a you know a ditch, a wet along the riverbed, and you know, I look over, you know, and I was at least for a few moments, you know, knocked unconscious. I mean, I don't I remember the blast, I remember the cloud, and then I just went black for a period of time, not very long, because I remember going off the road, and then I remember looking over at Regelsberger, and he was he's covered in blood, you know, his whole face is covered in blood. I looked down at me, I'm covered in blood. So I start I started moving all of my I'm good, and it ended up just being his blood that splattered over onto me. Um and then it was a short time after that that you know we had we had gotten out, realized that Savage was badly hurt, and then you know, trying to get Doc up there as quick as possible to tend to Savage because he was he was really he and Regelsberger wasn't wasn't urgent at the time, but Savage was you know obviously urgent, so he you know he took the priority and then we're just trying to get Savage out of there became the main focus, and then and Captain Myler and his and the command element was with us at that time too, so that you know we had some extra assets and manpower with us.
SPEAKER_02:And did and remind me, and I I'm pretty sure because I remember seeing the uh much, much later, I remember seeing the Oliver North video of Regalsberger giving uh an interview at the hospital. Uh, even though Regalsperger was not like critically injured right there on the battlefield, he had a you know, he didn't need to be evacued immediately. He did end up getting evacued from those wounds because he had a broken jaw and he ended up having to be trached and all kinds of stuff. Like he he had a he end up with pretty considerable injuries.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah. I mean he had it not been for Savage, I mean, I mean he yeah, he wasn't maybe urgent, but I mean he was critical at a minimum. I mean, he he had severe injuries that needed to be tended to. He just wasn't urgent surgical at that time.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Like Savage was.
SPEAKER_02:And was it did it end up being the CO who was making the triage call or Doc, or was it you? Were you awake enough to make the triage call at that time?
SPEAKER_00:I was awake enough, but I don't remember anyone having to make a specific call on that. I think we had a I think we had a second doc with the CO. So I you know I don't know exactly who tended to Regelsberger, but I know Doc at least was working on Savage and a decision was really needed to be made at that point in time. I think it was just kind of implied that hey, this is this is who needs the help. Everybody else, you know, we had to take up security around the around the vehicles, around the group, push out a little bit, because as we often found out, you know, where there's one, there's usually more. You know, somebody detonated it, so there could be someone around, there could be direct fire coming, and and by that time we knew that you know, if if you're in any given area for a certain amount of time, it's only gonna stay quiet for so long.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, yeah. They call reinforcements quick.
SPEAKER_00:Quickly.
SPEAKER_01:So that that actually pops uh question. Did the tactics as the as the as we experienced these things, obviously we had to adapt and overcome. And tactics had to shift and and all that good jazz. Was there a formal process at either the at the company level or the battalion level talking about how we were gonna how we were gonna adopt new tactical processes, or was it just more organic as just like, hey, we're doing it this way, why don't you guys do it this way? Or was there a formal process of submitting after actions, make suggestions we're gonna formally adopt this way?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I don't think it was a form, I don't recall a formal process. It was more kind of internal. I mean, I think a good example is you know, I think it's documented and unremitting too, as far as hey, what's the best way to uh you know prevent IEDs from being placed on the roadway? Is it to walk up and down it every day as we're continuing, you know, to take casualties, or is it to establish OPs throughout the city and observe it? You know, I mean that's just an example of how things kind of evolved over time, and I think it was the same way with our company, you know. We and I think most of the time we went out, we would do some type of debrief when we got back, and then we would just identify things hey, you saw this, you know, what did you see about this that worked well, what didn't work well, and then we would just you know take note of that, we would pass it along, of course, to to our adjacent units, and I think it just kind of evolved over time without it going through a specific approval process or anything like that.
SPEAKER_02:It was just that that was kind of that'd be kind of my follow-on question. Did you and the other platoon commanders get together and kind of share thoughts, share tactics, share concepts?
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, we would always talk. I mean, if you remember in the company COC there, which is also where all of us lived, I mean, it was just quartered off.
SPEAKER_02:Yep.
SPEAKER_00:Um, so we would always sit around that table, you know, between you know the platoon commanders, platoon sergeants, and whoever else. I mean, I think we were always willing to take take input. I mean, we would talk all the time about hey, this, you know, you know a big thing for us too was you know, as we were in vehicles all the time and we were responding to other units typically when they were engaged, so you knew that you knew when we were going out, like you knew you were gonna get engaged, right? So the enemy was out there, they were active, and they knew where the reinforcements were coming from, right? I mean, there is only one way out of hurricane point, so it was trying to trying to disguise as some way, trying to take different routes, you know. Hey, we took this route, it was that it worked well because of this, or we went this route and that didn't work well at all. So that's a good example is you know, on the 7th, when we were going to reinforce golf company, we went out and we went to the south, and we didn't usually go to the south, you know, we went down Route Michigan, but we went to the South that time, and look what happened when we drew when we turned the corner. So it was just it was it was a constant guessing game, a game of you know, actions, reactions, and and and counteractions to those reactions, you know. So it was constantly trying to game the enemy, and and and and if you just went based on your experiences alone, I mean you weren't using all the information that was available to you. So we would we would always talk as a as a company unit to try to you know develop the best course of action possible.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I don't and I don't remember when it was, but I I do remember because I was interviewed for it, but uh when they sent people over from I don't even know it was the Pentagon or Marine Corps Warfighting Lab or whatever to ask us on like what our tactics were and how we were doing this stuff so they could bring it back and help train the new who would end up being our replacements and stuff like that in general. Um I would imagine they would have brought in the officers and not just talked to the enlisted on that. Uh, were you a part of any of those interviews?
SPEAKER_00:That no, that does that does not ring a bell to me at all. So they must have just talked to you guys.
SPEAKER_02:It seemed it seemed very random. I know they did talk to JD Stevens because we talked to them together. Uh, but it was it was extremely random. It was uh I I I I don't know if they just threw a rock and whoever it hit, that's who they took, but I I have no idea. But I remember doing those interviews as well.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, yeah, that that doesn't ring a bell with me. Not saying it didn't happen to me, but it doesn't. I could have had I I have forgotten more than one thing.
SPEAKER_02:So one or two one or too many IEDs to the head there, sir. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well my best recollection is that they were only there, like they came in, they were only there for like a like maybe even a day. Like they hit they hit us, and then I think I think we ended up memory serves, I think Sledgehammer took them out to Combat Outpost and to Snake Pit to do some interviews and then came back. And so it might have been even a day, like maybe three days tops. So and I just can't remember when that I can't remember when that would have been even. I mean it was well into it because we had developed tack like there was it wasn't like, yeah, maybe this would work. It was like, no, this is what we do and it works.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I felt like it was July, but I don't remember for sure. I the weird thing about all that, I remember them interviewing the mechanics also uh over in the motor pool. And I found that super interesting in that they were asking them how what specifically is failing on the vehicles, uh, because they wanted to change everything. That that was just just sort of the overarching thing, is that they really wanted to change a lot of the vehicle stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I know that we lost at least two transmissions because of the as Dave was pointing out, like the weight of the vehicles were just way past what the transmissions were used to or were designed for, and so we blew two.
SPEAKER_00:So I mean we were stacking sandbags in the back and the met and the metal plates, and the that and then they put those you know, specially engineered doors that you know with the thick, heavy glass. Yep. Uh and I think and I think those had windshields that went with them too, is that right?
SPEAKER_02:Like the glass yeah, the double tank windshields uh-huh with the it had the flexible pane that uh is very similar to the ballistic gel type panes that they use at banks. Yeah, it's very, very similar as far as that goes.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so just overloading those vehicles and yeah, lasted a little while, but uh well, we also were driving them like we stole them, too.
SPEAKER_01:Those uh those port engines were screaming. Oh yeah. Begging for mercy.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, man, you're gonna get out there and protect the log train so you can get the breakfast.
SPEAKER_00:We and speaking of, I don't know if you meant to reference the log train that we did when we were turning over with 2-5, but that is a that is a mission that also stands out is you know, we were, you know, the the people who who stayed back to left seat, right seat with 2-5. They were escorting the log terrain and and and the vehicle became disabled. Oh, on the west side of the city. I mean, they were not too far, not too far along the way out to the combat outpost when they became disabled. And I rolled up, I don't remember the exact circumstances as to who I was with. I know I was with 2-5, and everyone was kind of lollyganging out around the disabled vehicle. I'm like, and I think where some other two, four guys there, uh Diaz being one of them, and we kind of started to it, kind of started to get like, hey guys, we need to get moving here. Like, we can't just hang out here waiting for this vehicle to get up. Like, we got to do something. Like, this isn't it's not gonna stay quiet for long. Um, and it wasn't long after that at all that we started taking indirect fire, and that's when Diaz was injured. I took out his knee pretty good. And there was a couple other injuries during that that time, I think. And I had prior to that, I had tried to get the the okay from battalion just to bring the meal, bring the bring the log train back to Hurricane Point. Like we can I think we can go without a hot meal, you know. I mean, I think I think we can we've been we've been doing it for seven months. Let's bring it back, let's reset, and look at how you know, we got it disabled, you know, one of the one I don't know if was it a five ton or a seven ton was site, right? I mean, you're almost there. I mean, you're just trying to hand off completely a bunch of people that didn't know the city, you know, that that didn't know us, that we didn't know them, and we're trying to get this food out to the outpost. It was like, let's not end this this way, you know. So that's that stands out as kind of the la that's one of my last memories of of being there and just kind of like a wake-up call, like we gotta button down here for the last couple of days and try to get out of here, but but we also need some help, you know. Um and I don't I think I don't think I'm feeling I don't think I'm alone and saying that I don't think the help we got during those couple of days were um what we had hoped for, but um I think we ended up getting out of there, you know, we kind of minimized the damage, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. I'm curious actually now now that you mentioned that, and that's uh there was a lot of hard fighting on September 11th and 12th those last couple of days. Uh mostly the 12th. I mean the 11th is pretty bad because there was a lot of hits. I mean, Blake's vehicle got blown up. There's a lot of different incidents where people's vehicles got shot up, but the 12th was a lot of actual gunfights and then the rush on the snake pit and the front gate of Hurricane Point. What we found out later, after some very heated exchanges and words, was that the NCOs from 2-5 were told basically not to listen to us. Which I I found very interesting. I'm curious if you had any interaction on the officer side of things with uh the other lieutenants, or perhaps with uh the company commander of the weapons company that relieved us. Did they mention anything like that? That they were sort of given a brief that what we were doing was incorrect.
SPEAKER_00:So, yeah, the weapons company or the um exchange with 2-5. I don't remember having a lieutenant that I was turning over to. And I might have, but I don't I don't recall that. I do remember the company commander coming in. I won't say his name, but I remember him coming in and Captain Wyler telling him to get his stuff on because someone had gotten in contact with with someone, I don't remember what platoon it was. Captain Wyler was gonna take him out, and he's like, Well, you looked at him like dumbfounded, like, what do you mean we're going out? Wyler's like, Yeah, we're we're going out. Like, that's what we do, that's what we do, you know. And the guy's like, I he refused to go out. The the the what the weapons company commander of 2-5 refused to go out of the wire to assist a unit who was engaged. So that kind of that kind of started the 2-5 turnover, obviously, not on a very good note. And I think it maybe you know that might have led to why some of that stuff happened that happened, but I mean that was the end of his company command. I mean, that guy effectively was relieved on that day and never led and never led the company for a day in combat. Um I recall going out as and it there wasn't a lot of us that stayed back, but it was like myself and Garcia stayed back at least for a day or two. I mean, there wasn't the turnover was pretty brief, right? I mean, for the five days, maybe seven days situation they were coming into. Yeah, it it was it was pretty brief. So we had a couple guys that stayed a couple days, and then I I stayed the longest. I mean, I was the last one to come back, and I remember going out with them, and I it was the day of the log train that the log train broke down. Yep, and I was in the I was in my right seat, you know, of the lead vehicle, and again, I didn't have a I I don't remember the lieutenant specifically, but I remember the driver, and we're going, and I just remember, I mean, I was used to, I mean, I think in 81s, I mean, I think we had, I mean, I think weapons company as a whole. I mean, I think all of our drivers were just especially by the time September came. I mean, everybody was so seasoned and so efficient, and you would, you know, you talk about driving Humvee, it's like, oh, it's easy. Well, it's it's not like it's a skill. Like we had we had really good drivers, you know, and I was spoiled with Regelsberger, and then I had, then I think Dahl stepped into that role. So we were just we we we were really good at what we were doing, and then now I'm riding with a kid that never met him. And I remember looking over at him, and we're going down Route Michigan, we're heading east, and every time we hit a perpendicular running street, we look down and we're getting shot at every time RPGs are coming down the road every time we go. It was like we called it like we were running the gauntlet, you know. And I'm and I'm looking over at this, and we're just I mean, it's like he's driving Miss Daisy or something. I mean, we're just like cruising along, and I'm like, dude, and I remember saying, like, and I think Blake, now Shane, you didn't know me as well, but like I wasn't a big yeller, you know, like I didn't I didn't raise my voice a lot, yeah. No, but I remember looking at him and I was like, Would you fucking go? Oh like I'm not at this point in the deployment, like I'm not looking for a fight, right? Like I'm not looking, like I'm just looking to make it out of there, you know. Like I'm the only one in my platoon, like in the city right now. Like, I'm just trying to get out and I'm trying to help these guys, and I look over at him and he had his camel back. I just I don't know why this sticks out, but he had like the the mouthpiece of his camel back like in his mouth, and he was like very deliberately like sucking on it, like drinking water, and I'm like, I about lost my mind on him because he's just driving like so deliberately, like there's little, there's like little pieces of you know trash in the road, and he's like really deliberately like turning around him to avoid them, and he just didn't get the urgency of the situation, and I was like, and I just lost it, and I just yelled at him to go, and he did. I mean, we finally did, but I mean, once we made it to Combat Outpost, it was a pretty big relief, and I think it was that we had been there a little bit, and then I got a I got a call, someone called on the radio, or someone from golf came out, and anyway, I was presented with the option of we could come back now with 2.5, but there was also like a tank company that was going to be coming through in a couple hours, and they could bring us back, they could escort us back, and that was a no-brainer. I was like, Oh, we'll wait, we're waiting for the tanks. Um and we did, we hung out a couple hours, no big deal. And I remember that being like, Okay, this is the last time I just need to make it from the combat outpost to hurricane point, and I'm done. That's it. Like, this is the last time, this is my last time being out of the wire, right? So we waited for the tanks, they brought us back, and all was good. So, yeah, yeah. So that, and then you may have touched on this previously, too. So that company commander was relieved almost instantly, and then he was replaced by I think it was their APSO or or or Three Alpha, with the assistant OPSO, who was Captain Rapicolt, who was later who was wounded when he he became he when he did the advanced party to come, you know, check out Ramadi a month or two prior to that, and he he was injured then, but then he ended up taking over Weapons Company shortly after coming there, and then he was later killed.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, he got he had his face burned in July 14th when he came for the advanced team portion, and then he was killed in November uh that same year with uh Corporal Ryan, who cross-decked uh from map three.
SPEAKER_00:Got it, okay. Yeah, yeah. So he had he had taken over weapons company due to that CO getting. I mean, I say he got relieved, I mean he essentially relieved himself, right? I mean, and effectively ended his Marine Corps career.
SPEAKER_02:That's crazy to think that he made it that far just to touch down in country and then be like, nope, nope, never mind.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:I think it got real because I mean you guys know Captain Weiler. I mean, when stuff was going on, like he was there.
SPEAKER_02:He was the opposite, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And that was, I mean, that was really the whole battalion leadership. I mean, the OPSO, the I mean they had to leave someone back, right? But like you would you would see the CEO and the OPSO out all the time. I mean, especially when stuff was happening, you know, and when Captain Weiler went to without hesitation, like went to go get went to go get his cure eyes, like, what are you doing? Like, like, we're going.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I can't ex I can't speak for everybody, but I know for me personally, it they went out so much that it almost was nerve-wracking. It was like, I I really can't have my battalion sergeant major, my battalion commander, the opso. I I really don't even want my company commander leading a charge because they if they die, I don't know who's gonna replace them. Probably no one. Uh this this is stressful. Yeah, but but in a good way. It was good that they were always out there because they actually knew what was going on.
SPEAKER_00:I mean, it it is a good feeling to see them, you know. I mean, just for sure. Yeah, you know, say what you want, but I think anyone would say, I mean, even as a platoon platoon commander, I mean, oh, there's the company camp commander, oh shit, there's the battalion commander, you know, and it's like it is it's good to see.
SPEAKER_01:I mean, you expect it, but it's once it happens, it's well, and and I will add, you know, not not just that, but I would add that, and and I don't remember I remember the conversation, I don't remember when it happened, but very specifically being told you guys and they were talking to key leaders at the time, you know, Corporal Muser and you know, whatever. But you know, we're not out, you know, being told, we're not out there. We trust your you you, you do what is necessary. And then as things went down, being backed by you know higher you know, battalion and the company off uh officers of just being like, hey, we're not there, we trust you, you know, make your best judgments. Um and so not only were they leading from the front, but when they weren't there, they were very supportive. It wasn't a micromanaged situation, they were just wanting to be a part of the of the fight too. So uh a little uh kind of a kind of off where where we were kind of going, uh what was we've we've talked to some other people about uh the so we had that root the rotation, right? So you have QRF day, QRF night, taskable day, taskable night, camp guard, and stuff like that. There's different roles, obviously, for camp guard, and uh due to my situation, I was always on radio uh to help out in the company office just because I did so much radio with the FTC and I was comfortable and whatnot. But a lot of other people were up on the posts and stuff like that. But as a platoon commander, especially as an officer, what was your what was that week like for you?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I mean it it was more of a down week. I mean, it if if there was such a thing in Ramadi at that time.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But I mean, we also would we also would watch the radios, you know, we would all we would also be the radio operator, you know, whether it was at at night or day, I mean, we would definitely push in on those. So and then just really whatever, you know, it was kind of some time to maybe get caught up on some administrative type task that we had to do. But yeah, really more of a I don't remember it wasn't it was a little less regimented, obviously, than being a taskable or QRF where you kind of always had to be be ready to go. You did have a little more flexibility, but definitely, you know, definitely when that time came around, it was a welcome tweak the way I recall it. I mean, maybe not if you're going up on the OP stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, no, for sure. I mean, for for me, I mean it was always I mean again, since I was on I was in the company office on the radio. I mean, that is not a stressful job unless shit's going down, and then obviously then it gets a little spicy making sure that you're capturing everything.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:So you didn't live in a a hooch full of Lance Corporals and PFCs, so I imagine there weren't as many naked people running around your rack. Uh, what uh what kind of things did you do in your what limited downtime you had?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and just keep in mind too that I mean I did live with Lieutenant Wells and Stafford Rapazo. So I mean I wasn't I was I wasn't surrounded by like the most distinguished gentlemen. Uh you know, I mean we weren't doing we weren't doing T incrumpets, you know. Um it was it was maybe maybe slightly different than being next to Hersher or someone like that, but it wasn't it wasn't, and we've talked we touched on this a little bit ago. I mean, the age difference we're talking is really not that significant. So I mean, not a lot, not a lot different. I mean, I'm not a big, I'm not a card player, I'm not a movie watcher even. So I mean, it was just unless, you know, you look, we'd listen to music, we bullshit, and then you know, I would run laps around the around Hurricane Point. I mean, it wasn't a very long lap around, but I would do that quite a bit, you know, to try to maintain some level of fitness. And then they had, I don't know if you guys use these or not, but up by the palace, they had kind of some rudimentary uh washing machines. Oh god, you know, so they were kind of half you they were kind of half hand washed, but like half machine type of thing. So you would you know you'd have to put it in and you know finagle with it a little bit. I don't remember the exact process, but I'd kill some time. I'd that was kind of a you know a way to decompress, I guess, for me is I'd go out there and you know, wash my clothes. And you know, that was usually during that down week, you know, most of the time, or during the day if I was on nights or something like that. But I mean, there were some people that you know, we had a little area that you could watch movies or something if that was your thing. But we'd kind of just hang out in that company, the company command center, and just you know, we just a lot of time up there just bullshitting with whoever came in. I remembered at some point in time, I think it was a little bit later on, but the hooch that would have been like to the west, they had somehow rigged up a TV to get some type of channels. I don't know if it was through AFN or or what, but I remember you know, that was the year the you know, being from Michigan, I was I was I'm a big sports fan, so I was following the NBA playoffs a little bit. That's the year the Pistons won it. So I remember being able to watch that for a little bit. That kind of stands out. But yeah, nothing nothing crazy going on. I mean, just just getting by day day to day, you know. We we talk about the missions and you know, and a lot of administrative uh tasks too, we would try to get done during that time, but maybe a little less crab ass than you guys, but probably not a whole lot less.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That's pretty good.
SPEAKER_00:And I I remember something, you know, just talking about the the the living quarters and stuff and I remember you know the porta shitters being out there and and we had to have a stick you know remember we had to have a stick out there because if uh you know time would elapse and the they wouldn't get service the shit would pile up so high in the middle yeah that you would you would have to have that stick to knock it down to give yourself enough clearance to to do your business you know and and um and remember I mean we were eating like you know quite a few MREs or you know some some type of canned rations most of the time so I mean you needed quite a bit of clearance when you went in there you know like the so the two or three inches wasn't going to do it so that would pile up and you'd have to grab that stick to knock it down because we were they were getting service consistently initially and and we also had laundry service for a short period of time that they would pick up the laundry and take it wherever they did and they would wash it fold it and bring it back real nice in a bag for two you had laundry service sir uh we plebs it lasted a about one or two it lasted about one or two cycles and then and then the guys that were doing it I think they found their heads floating in the Euphrates or something and then there went the laundry service there went the the the porta potties and no we ended up and they were out yeah we ended up taking out one of our honeypot men and that was one that was one of the longer stretches after he got taken out.
SPEAKER_01:I think it was like it was a long time that they didn't empty that that one stretch.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah the Porter shooter guy got k yeah we ended up killing him because he was he ended up being an insurgent and then the DVD guy ended up being an insurgent as well and we ended up killing him in a in a shootout in the house and everybody was like it's a fucking DVD guy like yeah great that's fantastic and then there was no more burned movies for a while.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so I didn't yeah yeah so those those porta potties always always will stand out to me.
SPEAKER_02:You know shit I gotta get the stick you know we're we're peeking here in the center you know so moving forward to when we all got back uh do you kind of remember what it was like getting back and then where did you go after that as well?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah so we got back and I I remember you know specifically getting back that night and um I had family in the area but I think we had I think our arrival back got pushed a day or two to the right so I think that conflicted with them being able to see me when I got back. So I you know I didn't have anyone right there on the parade deck at the time but but I had when so kind of towards the end of the deployment the lieutenants that were to cycle out had met with the exo to kind of talk about you know B buildings and that type of thing and I you know I didn't know I if I exactly what I wanted to do but um it was it was a tough time for people to just get out as soon as you came back. I mean I had extended my EOD date or my uh my exit date to make the deployment so I could have essentially got out you know very soon after we got back but I I wanted to do a B billet just to give myself you know time to kind of acclimate to to getting back and figure out what I wanted to do and I I had orders to be the OPSO down at reverting station San Diego. So I told him I my my I told him my preference was just to get me get me something close by that I don't could just do like a a PCA move uh close by San Diego's great you know so he you know he had some reverting connections due to his previous time so he had got me down there as the APSO as a down there. So that was my B billet. So I went down there and I checked in you know we did the we all did the basket leave when we got back right yeah right yeah most people took about 30 days yeah yeah you fill out the leave chit and then as long as you come back the slip gets tossed in the waste basket I guess I guess that's why they call it basket leave. Yeah um but that's what we call that's what they told us and that's what we called it and I think that's what happened because I don't think it ever went on the books.
SPEAKER_01:Not for me.
SPEAKER_00:But and then I checked in yeah about 30 days or so then I went uh checked into RS San Diego down in um right in Mission Valley down in in uh November of 04. This is yet another story to add to the fire of it's interesting that you were 30 40 days out of combat and then you were in San Diego at a recruiting post was that a hard transition at all or did you enjoy was it a welcome reprieve and you were you were good just being kind of chilled out and being in recruiting duty no I mean I think for me it was it was welcome and it was just that I mean it was a reprieve I mean it was yeah is it fast paced at times is it busy yes is long hours I mean all of the above but you're also not getting shot at right you know so people aren't dying you know so like yeah it was for me it was an easy welcome transition and I think a lot of it was just that the seven months that we had just gone through I mean it really gave you that level of perspective you know it it really put things in a different lens like oh because recruiting duty I mean usually is not very highly thought of as oh wow this is a great duty you know but for me at that time I mean having been through what we just went through I was fine I mean it was great like I didn't miss any I didn't miss I mean I missed the guys right I mean I missed all of that yeah but I was I was still around Marines. I mean like they weren't the same but like they were good they were really good marines my my CO was outstanding the XO was outstanding everybody the option CO everybody everybody was great I'm in a great city I mean I'm living in Mission Valley I mean then I moved to Mission Beach I mean it was for all the rigors of recruiting duty and and I don't want it to sound like I'm out having to meet a quota and and write contracts and send people to boot camp because I wasn't but recruiting duty can be a grind no matter what billet you're in. Yeah but for me at that time I was I was happy to be there I was happy to do it albeit a a significant change of pace but a welcomed one nonetheless. And so how long did you do that for I did that for about 18 months. And then I um I I transitioned out of the Marine Corps in summer of oh six July of 2006 and did you just move back home at that time back to Michigan? So I had a couple things going at that time I I had a application I had a conditional job offer with a federal agency I want my goal was to be in federal law enforcement I had a conditional job offer I had completed all of the steps in San Diego and I was essentially waiting on a on a phone call to for a a date to start the academy so while I was waiting for that phone call which could take anywhere from you know a couple weeks to a month or two I mean I I felt like I was pretty close. So I I moved home to Michigan was just kind of waiting for that phone call and one day the phone call came from that 858 San Diego area code and they told me that I had failed my hearing exam and that my conditional offer was no longer good and that concluded the and I was being discontinued from the hiring process. So that hit pretty hard because they told me I I mean I knew I had failed the hearing test because I knew what the parameters were and I knew what my score was so I knew that I was technically outside of it but I also knew what caused it right and I had documentation of that so that kind of started a long battle of you know trying to you know rectify the situation but in the meantime I wasn't able to just oh okay well I'm just gonna hang out until they they fix this because you know dealing with the government you know you never know how long that's gonna be yeah um so I had I had gone out and I had hearing tests done which all showed the same thing. I mean I have my I had my test from before I went in and I had my test from when I got out and it doesn't take a trained investigator to figure out what caused that loss to happen. But you have to remember though at that time people didn't know how to deal with a whole you know generation of veterans now that were coming out not the same physically or mentally for some that they came in with and they didn't know how to they didn't know how to deal with it. It took time for that to kind of develop and for people to get you know policies in place. Long story short I continued to fight that but in the meantime I applied to another agency and I ended up winning my appeal with the first agency and getting an offer from the other agency all within the same week. So I went from not having I went from not having anything to now being told you need to tell me today or tomorrow if you're gonna take this early so I ended up going with the one that I had applied to second and after you know two years or so of fighting the the the fight with the first and winning I had to tell them thanks but no thanks so it was kind of a long it was a long process but it was one you know it's interesting because when I was the opso at San Diego one of your one of your main duties at at the recruiting station as the op so and the ops clerk is is to process and get approvals for waivers you know you have you have drug waivers you have tattoo waivers you have education waivers you have all of these different waivers almost if you had a in back in that time I mean if you had someone that didn't need any type of waiver I mean let's let's get them off to boot camp before you find out that you need a waiver because everybody everybody everybody needed a waiver right and if what you had wasn't waiver well that's fine we'll do an exception to policy I mean we you we found ways to get things done all all within the you know within the provided guidance of course but I take that I took that experience because we we processed a lot of waivers and we were really good at it and we knew what documentation we needed and so when I provided my own waiver documentation to the the reference agency I mean it was a pretty tight package I mean it was a pretty thorough package that I don't think I would have been able to adequately do had I not had that 18 months of really processing waivers on a daily basis for people that who didn't need the uh published guidance to join. That's good man you knew all the secrets I knew I knew what I knew what they wanted to see I guess I know but we had a I had a phenomenal uh op cent COs there that just hey this is what we need to do this is it this is the pictures we need you know you put on you know you put it you put on the the short sleeve you know Charlie shirt without a t-shirt and if you can see tattoos coming up through the neck you know that's that's unwaverable you know but okay we'll write an exception to policy you know okay just sign here you know and then you get it done well now just to put a capstone on all this we're 20 years on what what do you I mean there were some difficult combat experiences you described some difficult command decisions that I certainly didn't even think about what what does all this stuff mean to you now you know I I think looking back it just reinforces the importance of the Marine Corps to me and just seeing the the one thing that stands out is just the the selflessness of of all the Marines that we had during that time and were with and the fact that everybody was willing to do anything um including you know give their life for the guy next to them I think that just to see that and to witness that on a daily basis over seven months just gives you um it's just good to have that thought that there's people out there willing willing to do that and that those men exist. And I I will always cherish those moments always you know I haven't been great at keeping in touch with all of them but I just I value what everybody did and I and I will the rest of my life and I I think I speak for all of us by saying that we just did it for the guy next to us and and it will stay with us forever.
SPEAKER_02:I certainly agree with that yeah a hundred percent and I I haven't heard anybody say anything any different I haven't heard anybody say I I did it for the flag or I did it because the president was a nice guy or something.
SPEAKER_00:Right. I mean I think and just to you know dovetail off that a little bit I mean I think it got to the point too that I mean I don't think I'm alone and saying okay is this I mean I think the common thought is you know we're midway through we're getting blown up every day I mean you go you go to the motor pool and you see the vehicles are just trashed and you you you see the blood on them and all of that and you kind of think to yourself like what what are we doing? I mean is this is this is this really worth like what is the what is the best case scenario here you know and well what is the worst case well we're we're kind of seeing the worst case you know right um we didn't we didn't know at the time and I and I don't think really people questioned it openly a lot I mean I think we did I think we as lieutenants you know when I talked to you lieutenants and and put platoon commanders at the time I mean we would push back a little bit at times like why are we doing this you know but it that but at the end of the day it's like you just you you did it for the guy next to you and the guys that you were with I mean the big picture kind of took kind of took a backstage because as a lieutenant I mean I'm like I said I mean I wasn't that much different than you guys I mean I'm not I'm not at the strategic level. I mean we're all at the tactical level so like although we may not be seeing the desired end state or we don't know exactly what that is it didn't really matter you know because we knew what mission we were given and we were there to do that to the best of our ability and that just kind of became I think the focus of going in the win you know like you said win hearts and minds you know that kind of of course we wanted to help people as long as we were there I mean when Savage was killed on May 12 I mean that's exactly what we were doing that day. I mean we had gone to schools we had hand out handed out soccer boat we had done all that we were still trying to do that and do that mission but that wasn't the sole focus. I mean the sole focus was you know accomplishing the daily task and getting out of there everybody in one piece I mean that was that really kind of became the focus as opposed to being oh we're gonna you know the city's gonna be great they're gonna be having parades when we leave and all that stuff I mean I think we did away with that pretty quick and then it just kind of the focus kind of became internal a little bit our own guys like how can I accomplish the mission and still get everybody back. Right did they have an official name?
SPEAKER_02:No they had no official title uh Booker called him his bearded guys that was all he did but we called him the bearded ladies.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah I get not to keep you guys but it's no no I've got nowhere to go please go into it so obviously we you know they came up with the mission right and I think it was obviously it had good intentions maybe lacking some planning to some extent but you know they had a group of guys and we were to we were to support them with a not even just a QRF but the expectation became that not only are you the response for the bearded ladies you actually have to be in your vehicles ready to go for the bearded ladies if something were to happen right that's right engines on engines on engines on ready to go so I think this was probably around April 9 prior you know after days of sustained fighting prior to bug hunt number one probably I'd have to look back at the dates yeah my unit was night QRF I believe and we were getting communications from battalion coc uh ensuring that we were in our vehicles ready to go and my I don't know if I was on the radio if I was or if I was relaying it to the radio operator like and the response was we're ready to go like we're ready to respond we're QRF like as we always are like we're ready to go like they they they're dressed they're ready to go you know well and it wasn't long after that and then we kind of went back and forth a little bit probably getting into semantics by you know not committing to the fact that we were not in vehicles but that we were just ready to go you know um so the watch officer came over and came in and saw me there and he expected me to be in my vehicles and uh we're not in our vehicles like everybody's ready to go like if you need us call us we're out the we're out the gate in a minute or less probably probably less right um so that became a big that became a big thing for that night that I you know somehow you know disobeyed direct orders you know um when in fact you know that plan you know we had to write you know Captain Weiler and I we had derived that that was the plan while it got from the watch officer to to the sergeant major who was obviously the leader of the bearded ladies to you know escalated right up to Colonel Kennedy real quick Harrell so Captain Weiler and I were summoned up to headquarters up to pulled in a room with you know the Colonel and and uh major Harrell who who who I knew well because he was my company commander in golf company going back you know all the way to Okinawa so he and I we were pretty close you know we're six and centered you know doing ask you know answering to what what the deal what is going on and I said hey I was just doing what I was told you know I was we're ready to go a QRF and then I was actually relieved of my duties that night and I don't know Blake I don't know if that made that to you guys or not but I was I don't I don't remember exactly how it was communicated but it was yeah you're no longer the platoon commander and you're not going on buck on tomorrow or you're not going on the operation you're not going on the operation tomorrow and I didn't have a lot to say at that point in time where I was like obviously that's not good I mean you don't want to get relieved of command essentially in combat um but at the time you know it didn't hit me like that I just remember coming back and telling Sergeant Garcia that hey you got him tomorrow I'm not going out and yeah I don't have that as a solid I mean now that you're really starting to talk about it I'm half like that's a a partial memory but it I remember somebody I remember somebody getting in trouble for not being on the trucks but I don't remember any of the rest of this this is fascinating. Yeah that was me uh so anyway so I talked to uh Garcia I don't know if I talked to everybody else or not I think I might have I think I did but at the time I mean in my mind I mean if I if I was gonna die on that sort I mean I would do it because look at what had we just done the last couple days right I mean we had been going this is my perspective I mean we had been going nonstop yeah whether no matter what section whether we were taskable or or QRF I mean we had been going nonstop right we finally caught a little bit of downtime a little bit of downtime before going out on what could be a 12 18 24 hour mission nobody really knew and we're trying to just get off of our feet a little bit but now we're being asked to um sit in our vehicles for a mission that again like I said I think it was derived with good intentions and a good idea and all of that stuff but I don't know that we necessarily had the infrastructure at the time to support it. I mean they almost needed like their own QRF right if we were going to do that. And I don't think we had the bodies to support that. And if we did have them somewhere in the battalion it definitely was not weapons company was my stance because we were already supporting the entire battalion as a quick reaction force and we couldn't I just didn't think that we had the manpower I didn't think it was prudent at the time to have our only response unit at that heightened stake for a for a mission that had so many faults right it had so many short faults to it so did you did you end up going on the bug hunt or did you so I did so I did so fast forward to the next morning like we had Revely I don't know what time it was it was early because we were leaving I don't know what time we were across the LOD but it was pretty early. Yeah and I think Weiler or Duke no it was Duke came back because he slept right next to me said hey get up I I was up anyway I was getting up because I was going to get everybody off and and for some reason I had like a I had like a good feeling like I just felt good about the guys going out because I just I knew that they were so good and I knew that they were in good hands with Garcia that hey it is what it is um but then Duke said hey you're going you're you've been reinstated or something and I've and I was back you know I was like I was like um you know Willis Reed coming out for the Knicks you know I'm back um and that and that was kind of it and I and I and it we went out on bug hunt that day and and that was it and really nothing else was ever spoke of it. And I I think that just kind of speaks to the time that we were in that people made emotional decisions at time at times and then you would just have to when you had a little bit of time to reflect on it's like oh well maybe maybe that wasn't the best call or or how can we fix this because if because if I'm taking the fall then Captain Wyler's got to take the call too got to take the fall too right because because he's we're we're the he's the one that told me to do that or he's the one that at least authorized me to do that. So where does the buck stop you know it's like oh well yeah that doesn't that's not a rational decision like let's just put it behind us and I don't know if that was why the bearded ladies ceased to exist but that was the end of it.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know that anybody's ever talked about it but you're absolutely correct in that they were trying to do something like a low profile personal security detail team would do with zero amount of the assets that a low profile PSD team would do. So it it's it was a bad choice. I mean it was a good concept and clearly I mean the uh the guys across the river the ODA guys they did the same exact things uh but they have ODA level assets and we did not yeah asset in one of those large assets is training right I mean you have not I mean I think our our qualifications were um fog a mirror and be dark complexed right I mean I think it was those two things you know can you fog a mirror and are you dark complexed and if you are and if you can then you can be a member of this team. And I just I just don't think it was you know it it had its downfalls looking looking back at it um it was it was it was an interesting time you know I mean I think I mean I think Sakaki was one of them right he was he was yeah he's the un unnamed Marine in the picture in uh the unremitting book of the bearded ladies.
SPEAKER_01:Oh got it yeah and I think I mean I think he's asked what is it I mean what is he's Japanese yeah yeah he is he is not Arabic in any way yeah right yeah so it was it was interesting it was a well intentioned but kind of a you know it's one of those things you right I mean you you try something it doesn't work so you adapt and that's that's what we did but that one is kind of stands out to me obviously because I was essentially relieved of my duties for a night um in a short night a short night at that um but it was interesting and I don't know how many people know that I mean I knew my section knew that I mean I knew I knew had no clue officers knew it but um that was kind of well as you were as we've gotten into it I'm I'm now having a it's coming back but I it but to your point it was so it was so short and and so especially for me being in the other section you know or platoon however you want to say it but it just didn't it like I heard about it but by the time I probably heard about it you were already reinstated I I think I'd done I think I had done what most lieutenants in that situation would have done.
SPEAKER_00:I mean you have to find a way to get people some rest. I mean don't get me wrong I mean I I understand we're gonna have we were all tired right I mean every one of us was exhausted but I think you need to uh find a way to get a little bit of rest when you can and when that was thrust upon us I didn't really think it was appropriate.
SPEAKER_01:And you're put you you know and I'm gonna pull on this thread a little bit just to um that implicitly what you're talking about is the reason why uh I know I I'll speak for myself have nothing but the deepest love and respect and appreciation for my command structure. We had people going to bat for us as the enlisted person and I've had you know in my short time in did have leadership that wasn't willing to go back go to the bat for you making sure that you know that that troop welfare that was a part of the mission accomplishment too. And the reason why we were so successful in a really an un we should not have been as successful as we were 2004 2nd Battalion 4th Marines in Rumadi holding that city by ourselves with little support little preceding tactics and etc we can go on but the why we were successful is because of the command structure and you know commanders that were willing to make the calls like you did and hold the line you know the what the I don't know if you you you all had the same philosophy but I know the philosophy that I was always told that an a good officer is is catching as much shit from sliding downhill as possible and making sure that we understood what the mission was we accomplished the mission while you catch shit. Definitely appreciate you for doing that.
SPEAKER_00:That's certainly one of that was one of my goals I mean I had you know you have a few Marines always take up your time when it comes to that I know prior to deployment we had tried to intervene on a couple situations that actually actually um Sergeant Major and I became pretty close because we dealt with each other a lot trying to kind of run interference on issues that a couple of the Marines had going on. So I had spent as a young lieutenant I had spent more time in his office talking about things and trying to get solutions for different Marines than I think what is certainly normal normal for a young lieutenant in the major office. I mean we became pretty close.
SPEAKER_01:I won't mention the the marine that I know you're thinking of right now, but you that was a tackle it was it was but he was he was a spicy marine
SPEAKER_00:But we reap the rewards as well.
SPEAKER_01:No, true.
SPEAKER_00:By by how he performed. And that's why you do that because you need those types of people. And just you know, we didn't one thing we didn't really touch on was the awards process, which was a whole nother animal. Um, especially at that time, because it's just the stats up the marine work where units were used to having.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, so that's go we have time. So go go into anything that you want to say about it. Like what's what's your thought process?
SPEAKER_00:Well, I just remember giving guidance or having been giving guidance that hey, this is the time to, you know, they have this awards panel, and this, you know, this level of awards can get approved by you know this level of command, and then anything higher has to go to this level and stuff. So just you know, the the guidance was talk to as many people as you can, write up as many awards as you can, and try to reward everybody for what they did because what they did was truly like even that like looking back on it was incredible. But even even at that time, you knew like, holy cow, like this was not something that happens every day. So, how do we how do we recognize these people for the heroic actions that they did? And it was um, and again, going back, I mean, we had the biggest bunch of 81s was the biggest, so we had the most amount of people, but we were also one of the most, I don't want to say oh, we were the most engaged unit and all that stuff, but we were definitely up there, right, as far as engagements goes, because whenever there was a big one, either we were there when it started or we were there when it finished. Yep, so we were always there. So, I mean, you could easily argue that everybody in the platoon gets at a minimum a Navy comp with the right easily, easily, but like you just can't you can't do that, right? Like, not everybody gets so we had to kind of you know, between Gunny Cook and I, we just had to kind of differentiate like who did what, and it was it became not it became more of a um cumulative award as opposed to a single action because some of the higher awards are obviously single action and you have to meet certain criteria. But when you wrote up the awards that we did, and I wrote a lot of them. I mean, I definitely the most of any platoon, and it wasn't close. But when you look at them, it's like this is a NAM, this is a NAM with B. Like, look what this guy at any other time, like this is at least a bronze star, you know. But like you can't the whole platoon, you can't write 50 bronze stars, you know, at once. So it just kind of was a tough, it was uh you had to kind of find the balance, you kind of had to find some level of separation, and um the awards process is meant to be objective, but when you're in you know sustained combat like that for seven months, I mean I think it was just it kind of had to be you kind of had to put it in the scope of that deployment and pull things out, and I think that I think we ended up with 20 some awards that I wrote, you know, for valor, and I and I had at least one or two people indicate to me that or insinuate to me that hey, this is this is probably too many awards for one platoon. And my response was something to to the effect of okay, well, why don't why don't you read them and then any ones that don't meet your criteria, why don't you decline them? And we didn't have a single one declined. So um it just kind of speaks to what we did over there, and I took a lot of pride in making sure people were recognized for what they did, but even though I don't feel like we were able to do that completely, because I think everybody deserved probably more than what they got at some level, um, but it did dawn on me well after the fact that all of the things that Savage did for the time that he was with us up until May 12, I mean, all of the things he did was at least deserving of some award looking at all these ones that I mean from the April 7 machine gun engagement that he did to the April 6th driving around and engaging multiple targets. Um and so at the time that we did the awards, he was just he was looked over, quite frankly, because he wasn't there anymore. Um so around 2015 or 16, I think it's when I first kind of started the exploring the possibility of a posthumous award for Savage for actions that took place 10 years prior. And we were actually able to get that done. And and General Weiler and I flew to Tennessee in 2018 and presented his family with the Navy Com, Navy Commendation Medal with B uh for actions that he took in Iraq in 2004, 14 years after the fact, which um if you think it's difficult getting awards at the time for people, try doing it 14 years later when nobody who is processing the awards was even in the Marine Corps at that time, and they frankly didn't seem to really care about it. So um that's just kind of the you know, we didn't have a ton of guidance, and it was it was kind of let's let's try to recognize as many people as possible for these awards. I mean, that was essentially it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I I appreciate the awards that did go out, but it seemed woefully inadequate for what I witnessed personally, and I personally tried to push for some awards for some of the guys in map too. And it sounds like it sounds like you did a great job getting some people awards, but you're right, probably everybody deserved a little something. And I guess there's no way to do that. It is a weird thing, but there were units that came after us in years following where there were 30, 40, 50 uh easily NAMs with V's, Navy columns with V's given out to individual uh companies and platoons, and so that's it's I know it's disheartening for a lot of people uh for that, and it's unusual. Uh I know that at one point there was talk that well, we'll give Captain Weiler a silver star, and that's uh that's gonna end up being like a company award for everybody. And it's like, well, that's certainly not how most people who did things viewed it at the time. Uh 20 years on, maybe people have a different feeling. I I don't know. But uh multiple people have mentioned that exact same thing that the awards process was extremely convoluted and very difficult because we were so early in the heavy sustained combat. There just was not other marine units that had gone through it at that time.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, I I couldn't agree more uh with that take on it. Um it it was uh you know not the fault of anyone, but it was it was early, we were heavily engaged, and the awards process hadn't caught up with us yet, to be honest with you. And it just um and you again, you know, I hate to say this, but we we did the best with with what we had, and and some people got what they deserved and and some didn't. And that's that's too bad that that's how that cookie scrambled, but it's just there's not a there's not a good way around it. You know, you can talk all you want about it, but um you know, and a lot of it is you know relative to where you were and and what what you were doing, you know. Some of those engagements, if you know, they were basically the people that didn't get recognized were probably the a victim to the amount of engagements that we had. I mean, some of those engagements, if that's all we have, the whole, you know, if if that vehicle, if that ambush we got on April 7 was the only engagement that the battalion had the whole time, well, everybody's getting at least a brown star minimum, right? But since we did it the next day and the next day and the next day, then it becomes routine and it all becomes watered down, and you kind of lose sight of the big picture of what you actually just did. And yeah, I had that I've never heard you know, his award viewed, I never had heard that take on it. Um, but I can see where you know where that could have been communicated that way, and obviously that's that that's that's not a good explanation because can everybody wear that on their chest? I mean, try putting that on your chest and going out, you know. Um you'll have uh solo valor, you know. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Yeah, I again that may have been uh and I don't know who said that. I don't remember. This may be some uh some enlisted scuttle butt as far as that goes. But uh that is definitely a feeling that and what was said at the time. And I don't think that he don't I don't think that he doesn't deserve that silver star. I uh but I do think there should have been some more other awards uh pushed out on top of that. If that if that was truly the feeling, then there should have been other awards given. It's it's unusual to me. But that's great. I'm I'm I like hearing it from your perspective, and I can't imagine how much shit you had to go through 14 years later to try to get Savage any recognition, and truly appreciate you doing that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, it was it was a lot, but uh uh well worth it. I think the most frustrating part was just dealing with people who didn't seem to care, you know, or or oh it got lost. You know, it got lost a couple times, you know. Um but uh well worth it. I think we all agree.
SPEAKER_03:Um for sure.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Well, Dave, this has been great. If there's anything else you want to add, feel free. Uh otherwise, I think we'll sign off. And and this has been wonderful. Thank you very much. I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, that's that sounds good. Um, enjoy talking with you guys.
SPEAKER_02:It was great to talk to you. Safe travels, uh, whatever you're doing for work, hopefully it's fun.
SPEAKER_00:Has its moments. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02:All right, man. Take it easy.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks again. Take care. Yeah, be safe. Yeah.
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