Ramadi's Hardest Miles - Jason Mosel (part 2 of 2)

Part 2 with Mozey is a very candid look at the aftermath of Ramadi through stigma, medication, and a near-suicide. This is an unpolished conversation and the deeper takeaway is simple and hard: recovery isn’t a medal. It’s a practice, a conversation, and sometimes a long quiet run through the woods. If you’ve ever carried something heavy and silent - PTSD, grief, addiction - you’ll find some tools here: speak up, seek community, move with purpose, honor the fallen, and build spaces where you and others can heal.
We close with a ton of good memories and laughs from 2004, as it wasn't all trauma. The brotherhood remains and we remember why.

• unprocessed trauma after Ramadi and a fractured return
• stigma, weak PTSD support, and a suicide attempt
• Okinawa isolation and toxic drinking culture
• meds, numbness, and redeployment while sedated
• discovering ultrarunning as a coping tool
• building meaning through themed endurance events
• honoring 2/4 with the Magnificent Bastards Challenge
• ongoing recovery, speaking openly, rejecting machismo
• lighter memories from 2004 that kept morale alive

To learn more about Jason Mosel's organization and events, go here: https://racemozey.com/

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Transcript

Stigma, Chaplains, And A Breaking Point

Okinawa Isolation And Suicide Risk

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Yeah, and you know, we'll like kind of like going away from like it's using that as kind of like a springboard into like this next section that I'll talk about is kind of like the after effects like of it. And it's kind of like to your point, Blake, where you know, it's it's funny because we were so young, especially myself, um, you know, only being 18, and like you have this understanding of like what's happening over there and so on and so forth, but in the same breath, like I'll just speak for myself, I didn't. And what I mean by like I didn't is like when I got back, when when I when when I got when we got back, and now all of a sudden, like the nylons of the world are gone, Coleman, gone, Meraki gone. Like all of a sudden, like everyone we were with is now fucking like dispersed with the kids that are left and this new chain of command. And it was a very interesting time for me mentally because like I never we again just speaking for myself, I never really processed everything we went through, not just like the the political side of saying the mission and everything like that, but everything else, like Moritz, or the people that I killed, or the other people I saw killed, or like all these things, nothing was processed. It was just basically like fucking October came around, we got back, like we're all excited, we got shitty fucking drunk all the goddamn time, and it probably wasn't until Christ, um I don't know, like a few months after it, where like you know, like in my head, you start to see kind of like the the cracks starting to form in that foundation of just like mentally and everything, and it was like a really rough patch because man, and and I could be misremembering, so like you know, anyone listening or like you guys too, like you know, super apologies if I fucked this up and and I'm just thinking about this the wrong way, but like when we got back, there was no like PTSD anything, like there wasn't none none of that. There was I remember being in I remember I vaguely remember like being in uh a chapel or whatever and them talking about like very vaguely saying like there's a thing called PTSD, if you have a problem, talk to the chaplain. Like, and that was it, like that was really all I remember of them ever saying anything about PTSD, but there was also still that kind of like stigma of if you do go say something, you will be labeled a pussy. And so it was kind of like this push push and pull of like what to really do. And like it was it was weird because then um you know we I forget how maybe like six months we were back before you know we headed out to Oakie um for the for my second deployment, or like the my the crew that came uh the second deployment over to Oki. And Oki, that's where fucking shit fell the fuck apart for me. Um like I just I I broke and you know it went from just like heavily drinking, like to because just not understanding like the coping of everything that we went through. And yeah, I mean it was like in it was and then it was in 2005 over in Oakie when uh I tried to take my own life. I just basically because I did end up seeing like going to a chaplain, and I did and they sent me to this fucking psych who was such a piece of shit, um there, and he was such a piece of shit and like did not help me whatsoever, but like at the same time I was getting a lot of flack from like the chain of command, and it was like it was a really weird like thing to be in because like at that point I was also a corporal, so now I'm a corporal with Marines underneath me trying to deal with all of this shit because like sure, I'm a corporal, I'm 19 fucking years old, and at 18 went through all of this, and now dealing with that, and so long story short, like it was rough. There was um some some shit being slung my way from you know guys we were in Ramadi with um the chain of command did not like me whatsoever because of all of that stuff, and you know, it ended up where I got I don't know if kicked out's the right way, it's the only way I can think about it, but kicked out of map two. I was sent back to Pendleton early, and then like I started to see a psych over in Pendleton, and you want to talk about rough. Now I'm still in 2-4, they all come back from Oki and they take me and they shove me into map one, and now map one, except for two individuals there, basically were like, Oh, great, we got the guy who's trying to get out of his contract for faking a mental issue and tried to kill himself. Fuck. Like, and so that was kind of like where I started with map one after Oki to try to build back up from that, which was rough. Um, and a lot of the guys from map two, there was a few that like would talk to me at that time, but not very many, and then a lot of them um at that point coming back from Oki that were with in Iraq uh with us that first time, now they were getting out, and we had a new group of people coming in. So it was it was really weird, it was a very interesting time for me because now I'm in map one as a corporal, but treated like a PFC because of everything.

SPEAKER_03 7:07

Yeah, you're starting over again figure out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

And it was really rough, and I think what was like super interesting about it was kind of like building back up where there did come a time when we went back to Iraq on that third deployment where like it I think at some point there was something, and I don't know what it was, but people realized like, oh shit, Mosey was just trying to deal with something, not trying to get out of the Marines or like break a contract or fake a mental illness to get out or any of this other shit. Um, and basically like it was so fucked up because then um what I what I did at that time was so the uh I don't know what they're called, obviously not the VA, but whoever like medical on when you're in the military.

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Yeah, navy Navy med. Navy medical.

Meds, Deployment, And Numbing Out

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Yeah, Navy Med. So they just pumped me up with antidepressants and sleeping pills. That was it. Like, and so that's what I did. I was like, fuck it. If this is what I have to do to, you know, serve my time, then that's what I'm gonna have to do. And I was just fucking strung out on Zolov, Trazodone, and fucking a slew of other shit, um, you know, throughout whatever. And for whatever reason, I guess you can be cleared to go back to Iraq on all of it. Um, you know, and so I just basically just kept getting my prescriptions and continued on all that way until, you know, after that third deployment, finally um, you know, get into DD 214 honorable discharge and off we go um back here. And then, you know, I don't know, uh Blake, has Nylon told you like any of the things that I've done like in the recent years with like running and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_01 8:58

Yeah, he's told he told me that you have gotten into kind of the ultra-marathoning type uh larger realm.

Finding Movement: OCR To Ultras

Purpose Through Suffering And Service

Hosting Themed Races With Meaning

SPEAKER_00 9:05

So yeah, yeah. So like after like I got out and everything, and then we basically we drove back from me and my wife Amber m uh drove back from California, and we're originally from Connecticut, and we get to Connecticut, and we were just like, This place sucks, fuck this. And we just kept the truck packed and moved north. We just landed in Vermont, we knew no one, had no family or friends up here, we just ended up here, and um, but I still kind of like struggled because like I said, it was just basically medicated, it was Zolof, the trazidone, the sleeping pills, and all that shit. And so it was n I still never really caught that underlying issue or really faced it to be honest. And it wasn't until I met this dude up up this way, and he was uh uh psych, I I just called him the wizard, and he worked for the vet center, and he's been working with vets since like Vietnam, I think. Older older dude, fucking solid as fuck. And he helped me fucking get off the antidepressants, which was great, but I was I then just got off the anti antidepressants and sleeping pills and started to fucking pound alcohol. Like I mean, it was basically like come home from work and just start drinking until pass out, wake up, uh, slam down a screwdriver to settle the hangover and then go to work, rinse and repeat. And then I started to have issues with my liver and all that other crap. And so in 2015, no, it was 2013, um, a buddy of mine that I met up in Vermont, like brought up, hey, like there's these obstacle course race, tough mutters, Spartan things, we should go try them out. And he got me to go because we you always got used to get a free beer at the end of it, so I was like, fuck it, like I'll I'll go for the free beer. And um it was funny because then I did it, and it was kind of like after I did that, it kind of had that camaraderie type feel that we used to have in the military, which is kind of like what you hear a lot from people who have done these things before, but um it that's what it was for me, and I just started to continue to do it. And between 2013 and 15, it was kind of on and off. But for whatever reason, in 2015, that shit fucking hit hard for me, and that's when I said, fuck it. Like, I looked in the mirror and I was just like, I got this fucking the the phrase I use is like I got the I have this demon in my head, it's not going anywhere. So we got one of two choices. You either let that bitch live there for free or you make it pay rent, and I make it pay rent by doing incredibly hard workouts or runs, and that's what kind of projected me onto this path of like ultra running. So then I would just start being a fucking psychopath with like working out for these endurance events, and I would do tough mutter after tough mutter after Spartan after Spartan, and then that kind of went on to endurance events that um you know Spartan has like what they used to call hurricane heats, which are like six hour, twelve hour, seventy-two hour the death race, and it's just doing dumb shit, like you pick up a log, carry it up a mountain, bring it back down, that type of shit. Um, and that got that was like good at the time, but then I got bored with it, and I started I really enjoyed the running portion of it, so I was like, fuck it, let's see like what happens to go run a hundred miles. So I didn't know what I was doing. I the most I had ever run up to that point was uh 50k, so 31 miles, signed up for a hundred and just went and just did the thing and absolutely fucking butchered myself. Um, I had to go to the hospital because I got really bad trench foot that lacerated open and I had to go get it cleaned up and everything like that. But as brutal as that sounds, it fucking I was hooked like that. And so continued on like with my training, and one of the things that I realized from doing that was I was actually starting to motivate other people. I was now getting letters, emails, people coming up to me, whether they were veterans or I think the most wild thing to me was one woman came up to me and not a veteran at all, but she was a sexual assault victim, and how my story motivated her to just keep going another day. And I was like that now I started to get all of these stories, which was helping me, along with all of these runs and workouts helping me mentally as well. So like I just started like hammering out and doing this thing, and not like the like I did go through that kind of phase of like the the David Goggins carry the votes, but I'm fucking over that shit now. Like it's like for me, it's not necessarily about like like going to somebody and being like, you gotta carry the logs and carry the votes and don't be a bitch and don't be a pussy. Fuck all that shit. Like the only thing I tell people really is that whatever you want out of life, just put every fucking thing you have into it. So if you're into fucking knitting, I don't give a fuck. Just knit the fuck out of a sweater, like sit down, fucking focus, and knit. Like, and that's just how I operate. And now, like when I go into the woods, it's more of like a meditated type state that I put myself in. So the furthest race that I've ever completed was a 551 mile race over 10 days. And so like mathematically, that's about 54 miles a day. Um, and it's it was up here in Vermont, so it was about uh in the 54 miles, it was about 4,000 feet of climbing. So by the time you get done, you're at about 100,000 uh feet of climbing.

SPEAKER_03 15:59

That's thank you.

Honoring Fallen Marines, Building Community

SPEAKER_00 16:03

Um but like to to give context to it though, for me, it's more of like that meditative type state that that puts me into. That's um, you know, doing these long, hard, like runs like that, there's also beauty in being torn down to build back up. Like, you know, I've gotten deep into, and I know Nylan, you know this, um, like gotten deep into kind of like the older culture, and I mean like kind of Germanic, Gaelic, pagan type culture, and kind of that reconnection with nature and understanding kind of like the old god to the nature and everything like that. And that's just become like what I've been able to utilize to grow um and like work through all of those things that as that 18-year-old kid I didn't fucking understand. Like my frontal fucking cortex is not developed, and like shit's gonna get fucked up all the way through, and then this is what I'd use. So then that I springboarded off of that and said, you know, well, what's it look like to host my own running events? And I don't mean just like throw on a fucking 5k turkey trot, I mean like throw on something with some meaning behind it, and then sprinkle in a little bit of mosey to it with some theatrics. So, you know, I just got done with um our Krampus event that we that we host up here. Um in, you know, it's a nine-hour event that I created a 10K course on a ski slope. It's so it's 6.2 miles with 2800 feet of climbing, and people go out there and they'd see how many laps they can do in nine hours through the snow, the cold, and everything, and everything is Krampus themed for that. And so I dress up like Krampus and the whole thing. Um in October, I host a 30-hour event very similar where it's a 10k course through a trail system up here in Vermont, and it's 1800 feet of climbing, and it's the Devil's Den, and everything is uh associated with a tarot card. And so basically, I figured out meanings of tarot cards, and I figured out like which ones mean the best things for ultras or overcoming a bunch of stuff, and people come out. So, like last year or last October, we had 80 folks come out for that, and again, it's these people that come out, and I get the emails later of especially during COVID, where you know they're in a bad mental space, but this is the one thing that kept them grinding, you know, whether it's training or just something to look forward to, and then they came out, and you know, I don't sleep through that whole event because I want to see them cross that finish line every time, and that means something to them. So if I need to stay awake for 48 hours so that someone else will not have to go through what I went through in 2005, fuck it. It's worth it for me. Even if one motherfucker showed up and I lost$5,000,$6,000,$10,000 on that, I don't give a fuck about any of that. Monetary money means fuck all to me when it comes to that shit. And then the the last race that I that um I host right now is after our battalion. And so I I put on a um a backyard, what they call a backyard ultra, which is traditionally a 4.1 mile flat course, and you have an hour to finish it, um, and then at the at that hour it goes again, and it just continuously goes until there's one person left. So what I did for this one, it's a small ski slope that does like amazing things for kids in our area along with veterans. Um and I made a one-mile course, and it goes up the ski slope and then they traverse back down, and they have 20 minutes. Uh runners have 20 minutes to complete the one mile, and I started doing a ruck for that as well, where males carry 35 pounds and females carry 25 pounds, and they have a half hour to do it, and that just goes until there's one person left, and it's called the Magnificent Bastards Challenge. In each lap, we dedicate to a Marine that was killed in action from the history of the battalion. So everything for that one is Marine themed. And at the beginning of the event, I call out. The name to everyone we lost in Ramadi. And I have boards up that basically uh will tell our story so that you know last year we had about 90 folks show up to that, so that's another way of basically telling our story to people who never would have known about it. Because the one thing I hear the most about people that come to that event is right at the start line, I put all the images that I could find of all these Marines from back from Banana Wars all the way up through till present day, and I get all those images up there, and the one thing that people uh comment on is how young everybody is that has been killed from that battalion in these wars. Like, yes, there are like the Sergeant Major Ellis's um on there, but I would venture to say 95% of them didn't see twenty. Like, that's fucking wild. But I mean, all that to say the reason why I bring all of this up is because like I think what we went through is important to tell that story. But I also think that I've I've found that it's important to tell the after story as well of all of us. Like every every one of us has like their own thing. Maybe it wasn't maybe someone wasn't as fucked up as me, um, but you know, they have their own fucked up thing. And I just feel as though like to get the whole story of what we went through in Ramadi, you need the whole fucking thing from before, during, and after.

Ongoing Recovery And Speaking Up

SPEAKER_03 22:10

You are uh you're singing a love song to Blake. He's about to start talking and saying how important that is too. I can see it coming out of his mouth. But that's what he says too. So we had a weird uh before you even showed up, we had a weird Okinawa deployment. And there's something about Okinawa that people don't realize either just trying to hit on that because it's important for the before and after, because that was the buttons of this deployment. Uh, it's definitely isolating and it's a depressing place to be married. Even if you're training and it's terrible, it does terrible things to people. You have nothing but time to fit the Okanala itself. And think about anything that you don't like. Because as many problems as you probably had after Ramadi with your Okinawa deployment when we were there for the year prior on our previous deployment before we went to Ramadi, uh we had what, 10 people kill themselves? It was a fucking shitload of suicides. Like there was nothing going on before killing themselves. And so uh it's just a very isolating place. But if you've got anything going on, that's not where you would spend somebody to make their wealth. It's the most unwell place I think ever been to. And we were at a between me and Blake both. We were at a toxic level of drinking at that point as well. No, it's uh it's it's the same thing. Like you have nothing but time and alcohol, uh, which is an awful place to be if you're having anything. Anything, no matter what it is. It's a horrible place to recover, let alone traumatic brain injuries from IEDs, which you've most definitely had. And any kind of post-traumatic stuff.

Lighter Memories From 2004

SPEAKER_01 23:47

I mean, I don't repeat exactly what you said. There's no there's no release and uh and so definitely sharpened a couple edges of people. I think I can't remember what the number was left behind data in the Japanese uh things that went down to. But I can agree with you more because I think uh I'll take a little bit of a different track. When I was uh uh getting out, I've had a lot, I've talked to a lot of people about joining the military or um you know, like they come to me about advice about joining the military. And the number of times that I have to uh try to uh uh talk them down from the idea of like the hear, you know, they hear the stories about the war stories and they they think about it as in this grandiose, like exciting, you know, like war stuff, you know, like man, you got to put that tone that sounds amazing. It's like yeah, well, hold on. That's uh a very punctuated uh uh story here. You're you're forgetting about everything that goes along, all the emotional stuff, everything that leads up to that, and then there's there's there's a piece that happens afterwards to your quest. And um I without without all those pieces of context, it's so hard to understand A for the purposes of what we're doing here is how absolutely insanely unique uh uh Romani 2004 was for Second Battalion Force for instance in relationship to uh the larger legacy of military history for each also that all of our little vignettes that are a part of uh that make up weapons company, it didn't just happen, you know, we didn't just appear to be it in Ramadian 2004. We have a backstory, but then there's also a story that happens for many of us afterwards. And to your point, uh some some had uh more uh uh external negative consequences, whether it's jail time or suicides or you know, just rough marriages or whatever. Um some of us had a little bit more internal battles. Um those are sometimes the harder ones to know about, but it's really important to let people know that there are different journeys and they're not all unique. And so it it definitely as time has gone on, I've found it really important to talk about, just as you said, the importance of talking about the mental health and the recovery part because it gives other people the uh access to then feel like they can talk. And it's a wonderful legacy that you're doing. I really appreciate what you're doing with uh with the two four run. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

Yeah, and just so that like because I always worry that people think this that like I'm using dead marines for money. Um, like all my events.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

It'd be nice if you were a millionaire, you're not.

SPEAKER_00 26:49

Yeah. All my events, I don't make a dime off of. Um, so all like ten dollars from each registration goes to a nonprofit. So Krampus, it goes to uh veteran venture program with um an organization called Vermont Adaptive. Uh Devil's Den goes to an organization called the Josh Pilata Fund in Colchester, Vermont that helps veterans with PTSD. And then for Bassards, it goes back to Northeast Slopes. Um, again, is a uh 501 C that helps kids within the area along with veterans. They just go there for taking like uh dead Marines from 2-4 and trying to make a fuck out of their name. I'm not like at all. Um, you know, but you know, Blake, you bring up an another interesting point that I do like to talk or do like to mention is that, you know, I don't have my shit figured out. Like there's in in my opinion, there's not really like this pure slash end or anything. Um, because what I have found throughout my journey is that that shit will always creep up on you when you least expect it. And so it's important to and it like I've I've chatted with Nylon before, um, now that we're connected um on a multiple platforms of communication, but like there's always times where like, you know, the that book came out and I'm reading it, and it's just fucking unlocking shit in my head that I either didn't remember, it blacked out, or whatever the fuck. And like I'm sitting there in my living room, just kind of like, holy fuck. And like Amber comes up to me, he's like, You alright? And I'm like, I I don't think so. Like all of a sudden, like I'm 18 again, like right back there. And it's important to always continue kind of that conversation, and I have no bones at this point now about coming out to anybody and just being like, Yeah, I'm in a fucking rough patch right now. Um, if you had asked me 15-ish years ago to do that, I'd be like, fuck no, because I was still kind of under that um mentality of like if you say that you're struggling, then you will be considered weak or a pussy. Now, fuck that. Like, I don't give a fuck. I have A, nothing to prove to fuck all anybody. And B, like, you're actually stronger to be able to come out and say to somebody, like, yeah, I'm fucking struggling and I need to talk, than you are bottling that shit up inside. I mean, we I'm sure we all know of like whether they were people we were in Ramadi with or in the military with that have taken their own lives or even after the fact, like, you know, that's I just had a a close friend of mine um take his own life last January. Like that it's oh it's always something that like we have to stay cognizant of, and there is no fucking change in the world of coming out and being like, I need to talk, or I need help, or I need something. Like it's kind of the that that same phrase um that I know we've heard a lot where it's like I'd rather sit and sit and listen to you talk than sit and listen to your you uh uh your um eulogy at your funeral or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Yeah, there's there's something uh nice about being 40 plus in that you can stop caring about a little bit of the machismo shit where it's like, oh, you're gonna be a pussy if you say like I'm having a bad day. Like you know, I don't I don't really give a fuck. I've done all the things that'll prove all you know. My resume speaks for itself. I don't need uh anybody's accolades as far as that goes. Uh I'm okay with saying like it's been bad in the past. And uh I'm glad you are too, actually. Uh and it sounds like you've uh found a way to at least translate that to something useful. Uh I'm gonna bring it back. I'm gonna bring it back to 2004 just a tiny bit. Uh on a on a good note, because we're coming up uh we've been talking about an hour and a half. I'd like to bring you back on a good note. You remember any good you remember any good stories from 2004 other than uh you know any of the other funny things? Because we had some good times too. It wasn't all bad times, wasn't all shitting in bags and people dying.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

No, it wasn't all shitting in bags and shit. Like there's there's one story, like I'll leave it up to your discretion whether to put this in or not.

SPEAKER_05 31:25

Oh, oh, ooh, excited.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

It's not it's not bad, bad, it's just funny, but like I'll leave it up to your discretion. Um, so it was me and Anderson, and we were on post on I can't remember if it was North or South Bridge. It's the one when you're pulling into um Hurricane Point over to the right.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

That'd be North Bridge. That's north, yeah. North Bridge.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

Yeah, North Bridge. So, you know, we get we get up there, and then whoever the fuck brought us up, I don't remember who it was, they take off. And the moment that motherfucker takes off, we immediately take off our fucking Kevlar, take off our flak, like like everybody fucking did on post, and we're just chilling there. And like we're just talking, and all of a sudden we start getting lit the fuck up, and we drop immediately, like, below all the sandbags and shit like that. And whoever was on post down at the um uh down on base, like called up asking like what the hell happened, and like Anderson had just recently gotten there, so he's nervous to shit and fucking picks up and he starts like jabbering and fucking stuttering and everything like this. And so I guess um, so Gunny Meraki took over the fucking comm down on down on base and said, Who is this? Anderson's like, it's it's uh PFC Anderson. He's like, shit boots, what the fuck is happening up there? And he was just like, Um, we took fire from across the the road from a building, and Meraki was like, What does the guy look like? And he's like, uh, black pants and a white checkered shirt, or like just came up with some fucking random shit. So then I think he sent like map three or map one out there to go search the house. Lo and behold, they find this dude in black pants and a white checkered shirt and commenced to beat the fuck out of them.

SPEAKER_05 33:32

Jesus.

SPEAKER_00 33:36

It's like it but that shit that you saw on those fucking bridges, though, was fucking wild. Like, there was I think it was Swede that like came across the comm and like was like said something like, Oh, they're fucking serving sausage over on the north bridge or whatever. Because this one guy came with two other dudes down to the riverbank and was getting plowed by both of them and then fucking washed his mouth out in the Euphrates, which was fucking fucking spunk that went into his mouth was probably cleaner than the fucking Euphrates. But like that fucking bridge was wild sometimes. Oh, being up there. Oh, fuck me. But um Yeah, and like all the like the funny the other funny shit, like thinking back to like I I still have uh I have a photo album I'll I'll flip through every now and again, and I got images of how we had like right when you walked into our hoots, that whole fucking wall had that basically like maximum fucking magazine bullshit on there.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Yep.

The Bond, The Gap, And Closing Thoughts

SPEAKER_00 34:39

Then when you like went into where our bathrooms were, like that bathroom became the Jack Shack. So then we had the sign that we hung on there that said beating off or not beating off. And like you were supposed to when you were beating off, you were supposed to flip it so that we would know. And then when you went into there, that's where it's like we had the fucking butt man magazines from like the same one for the like five months, it's all sticky and whatever, but like the center fold was just that blown open asshole or whatever. It's like god damn. It's like such like wild shit to think about that now because like I'll talk to especially because I work at I work at Dartmouth College and I'll I'll do a lot of work with like the student veterans that come in and talking to them about like what they've done or like what deployments like now, and like they have the internet and all this other shit, and here we are like all crowded around this fucking portable DVD with the speaker auxiliary fucking plugged in, and we're all trying to hold it to hear the fucking thing with the DV with the burned DVD from the Hodges that were selling it from the front fucking gate.

SPEAKER_03 35:50

And almost nobody had cameras because digital cameras just weren't a thing, and now everybody everybody has a GoPro.

SPEAKER_00 35:56

But that was even better because then everyone had the disposable cameras, so then when someone left their disposable camera out, you would take a picture of your nutsack, they would never know until they sent it back to their mother or their wife to go get developed, and then they would get the letter letter back that they have all these nut sacks around their fucking um camera, and that actually happened to Amber uh once, but the other time too with Amber was when I sent back um my disposable camera, and we were taking pictures of when I think it was only like 20 bucks that we gave Groves to take that bug zapper and hit him in the dick with it.

SPEAKER_03 36:37

Oh yeah, yeah, that was great.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

So like Amber develops these fucking like photos at uh at the time, like when they had the uh develop in an hour type thing. So she's so excited, she got a package from me. She has a camera, she runs down to CVS to do the hour development, and she's like standing there and she's watching them as they're printing off, and then they come to Grove's dick, like coming off.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

Ah, that's good. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 37:06

She's like, what the fuck? All the good fucking time.

SPEAKER_03 37:14

That's fucking great, man. You have any others?

SPEAKER_00 37:17

I remember the I think this kid was in map three. What was his name? Neil? Not Neil. McNeil. I don't remember. Scrawny little dude by the way.

SPEAKER_03 37:25

There was a Neil with dark glasses. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Yeah. I think it was him. And we were always like so like, fuck, here comes Neil because he's gonna bum a cigarette. And so someone got the bright idea to take the tobacco out of the cigarette, fill it with gunpowder about three-quarters of the way up, and then pack the tobacco into the end of the cigarette. So then when Neil came over to the smoke pit to bum a cigarette like he always did, we gave him that one, and he lit it, and maybe took it like one hit before that fucking uh gunpowder kicked off and just ripped the whole fucking thing down to his face.

SPEAKER_02 38:11

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah. Yeah. Fucking Jesus Christ. Yeah, and then it's like all the other quintessential shit that like we used to do where it's like, you know, the Iraqi kids would ask for candy, and so we'd give them fucking like cherry skull, and then watch them eat fucking chewing tobacco and then immediately vomit.

SPEAKER_03 38:34

That's fucking terrible.

SPEAKER_00 38:36

And then wonder why when we're driving by they're throwing rocks at us. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:40

Yeah, they change their minds. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:44

Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, but all in all, with like with all the bullshit though, like with everything that happened in war, like everything that happened after, and everything like that, like, man, uh there's something about that that like brought like there's like a connection that's like I mean, it's kind of like a coin of phrase to say brotherhood, sisterhood, and all this shit, but like there's definitely something to that when you go through all of these things and like whether it's all the funny shit, the bad shit, and like all of that, man, there's this fucking connection that like we all now have like together to be in that suck. And it's fucking like just it's undescribable, but it's like we in we're such a small community, like, and I never really realized that until you get out, and then you're kind of just in the civilian world looking around, and you know, you're saying half the fucked up shit that we used to say, you know, in the in the hooch in the barracks or whatever, and people are looking at you like you're a fucking psychopath. It's like fuck, man.

SPEAKER_03 39:57

Yeah, that's uh uh if my everything that after I got out could be summed up in one short phrase, that would be it. It would be me uh trying to chase that feeling again of being of having that connection again. Literally. You get to be well, at least this is just my opinion. You get to be the uh uh most uh realistic version of yourself in when you're in a marine corps. Infantry unit. You can say anything, and it's not that weird, right? You know the guy who has some weird sexual fetish. You know a guy who likes weird food. You know some dude who's into girly anime and other like people, somebody who listens to Britney Spears and dances around in their time off, and they're it's the manliest dude you know, but he's he's got this weird quirk, and everybody gets to know each other in a way and experience things in a way that you would not intimately know about any other individual. The rest of us just go through life and superficially transact, and it it's uh I think that's where it comes from.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

That's like the motherfucker that listens to Britney Spears as we're crossing the fucking line into Iraq.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

I don't I know that guy. Yeah, I know him pretty well. Yeah. Well, dude, this has been great. Well, if you got more you want to tell, feel free. Otherwise, we can stop here. Either way, you've fucked you've said so much.

SPEAKER_01 41:26

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