Semper Familia - Jonathan Wade (part 2 of 2)

We revisit Ramadi 2004 with Jon Wade to trace how hard lessons learned became durable leadership in his later career as a senior NCO and Staff NCO. We end on brotherhood, nerves at the finish, and what it means to bring people home.

• early raids blocked by chains, walls, missing tools
• switch from textbook CQB... to shock and overwhelm
• April 6–10 battle: motorbikes, shifting ROE
• intel gaps and rare feedback on detainees
• HVT hit with Delta and Oliver North present
• corrupt cop raid with large caches and documents
• unit culture built through a new family and trust, repetition
• leadership lessons carried to Afghanistan
• final weeks’ nerves, rituals, and an IED close call
• reflection on ego, stewardship, and bringing everyone home

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Transcript

Early Ramadi Raids And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_00 0:34

This is part two of our conversation with John Wade. 81 millimeter mortars sledgehammer platoon. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 0:42

They come out and talk to us, they're like, oh, well, wait a minute, where'd you get this this guy? You know how like the intel was like um not the best in Ramadi. Like we we didn't get a whole lot of intel coming back to us about the guys that we were snatching up. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Like it was uh I think if I remember correctly too on this one, uh sorry to interrupt you, but I I it if I remember correctly, isn't I this was kind of early on, I think, because uh because I if I if this is the same one, I think we were having trouble making entry to the compound itself. Um and that's why and that's how he got away, is that we still hadn't per figured out how to get past the gate.

unknown 1:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:28

Yeah, so 10-foot walls.

SPEAKER_02 1:31

Yeah, I had the chains around the gate, and it was uh it was tough breaking the chains and getting in there. We didn't have any um breaching tools or anything like that, like we could use to so we end up. I think we ended up hitting it with a truck or something to break that open.

SPEAKER_01 1:44

But if I remember correctly, I think we did hit it with a truck to break the gate. And then and then you then there was I remember you and me, and I think I think it was Rocha too, that were like some first entry into there, and we snatched the guy up and then yeah, leave it. I left you down downstairs as I pushed up upstairs.

Broad Sword Over Scalpel CQB

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yep. Now, did you guys do this like actual mount style? Stack on door, kick door open, breach, enter, clear.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

Yeah, we attempted to, but it got real ugly because of that because of that chain on that on that gate, you know what I'm saying? We didn't have any boat cutters or sure that to kind of get in there. So like it well, and we also like later on where we're using the highbacks to jump over the wall. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? It was we learned a lot. Like initially, when we first like that's why I bring this one up because it was so early. Like when we hit that door, um we kind of got like choked up right there at the front. But then everybody piled in, everybody started really wanting to find work and and and really started clearing the place. And I just got left downstairs with that guy. And dude, he was down there laughing and like pointing it at man. I wanted a but I didn't, I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 2:58

No, early on, we were and even later, uh, we weren't overly surgical while we were doing it, we were very violent, violence of force uh mentality of like, let's like I would rather get the drop on them than try to be too um and I remember my one of my philosophies was uh I want to get upstairs as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Um, and so I would leave the downstairs for everybody else, and I would just fucking plow until I could find the stairs and get upstairs with whoever was following me.

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah, we were very, very, very much at the beginning of that deployment a broadsword, not a scalpel.

SPEAKER_03 3:35

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:38

Yeah. I mean it made sense because our call sign was sledgehammer. We would say a 20-pound sledgehammer and you know, overwhelm you with dudes because a lot of our dudes were like they were amped up to do the job, man.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

So well, that's kind of why that's kind of why I asked about the CQB tactics specifically, because uh the the few times I saw you guys clear houses, I felt like that was you know, you go to Mount Town and you learn all this, like like almost police tactics, stuff that that would probably work in certain situations. But I I specifically remember you guys more running through the front door with like with like 50 dudes, like it and it was it was like we're just gonna overwhelm you, like it was like more like a beehive than it was like real mount tactics, and it worked. It worked. I don't I mean I remember you guys taking contact in houses, yeah, but no one ever got significantly hurt doing that.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

Yeah, I re I remember the to I remember several times engaging or having having enemy combatants inside the house, and and the one time that he did try and shoot the uh most of the time they were so shocked that we were just running straight at them and seeing, you know, like hell on earth coming flying at them that they were too they're they're frozen in fear. Yeah, um, I had a guy, I had two guys draw down and actually pull the trigger, but again, I kind of recognized that A, they were a bad shot in the first place, but that I was also going off of the assumption that their their fear wasn't gonna hit me. Yeah, and so um just plowed them over. Um, I remember I knocked the one down, I think it was Hersher that grabbed them after because I think we were out there with I think it was one that time was when we were out there with uh Rainmaker, but somebody somebody came up behind me and like actually like secured them as I kept because again, I my goal was to get up onto the roof as fast as possible. Because a lot of times the reason why we're kicking down the door is somebody was shooting from the the rooftop, and then Joe said, Yeah, exactly. And so we were trying to we were trying to grab a guy.

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Um but we I was gonna bring up question about the surgical side of it. Like once we hit like um, like Muster said, we try to get to the roof as fast as possible, but once we hit that doorway that we would release to the roof of the V uh roof of the house, that's we would slow down and that will turn into a CQB situation as opposed to um yeah, but getting in the house, we gained a foothold like no other. Like we would buy the first house like crazy, dude.

Roof Runs, Shock, And Overmatch

SPEAKER_00 6:22

I it it's you know, it probably from the description, none of us are doing it justice. It probably sounds retarded, like we were just like, you know, mobbing in there, but it it worked really fucking well. That's the thing. It's like it again. I only saw it a few times in person because most of the time that was not my job, but the times that I saw it, I was like, this is working perfectly, and you could repeat it a hundred times. So it it you know it it worked really well.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Yeah. Well, I think if I remember now that we're talking about it, my my memory of it is that people knew that I was focused on getting onto the onto the roof, like and people knew to follow me. And I think people kind of knew who that team, you know, like who should be there, but also recognizing if something was coming, if something was more pressing, take care of that as I go forward. And we kind of had, and because, and as we have talked before, you know, like going back to those the truck teams, like after you do it several times, yeah, you work, you you you start becoming an extension of each other and you kind of know what needs to happen.

SPEAKER_02 7:26

That that comes from so many things. Like we were so tight as a unit, um, like it even stemmed from the deployment before that. Like we would all go all go on LIBO together. We would all we all knew each other's families, we all loved each other to the point where we're not gonna let you go through that door by yourself. Train on top of that, and then we had our building experience on this deployment. Um yeah, I think all of that combined was yeah, it looked it looked ridiculous when we when we ran into the house, but it worked. And and again, if it worked, we could chalk that up to a success, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Yeah, so I don't think anybody's gonna write that in a CQB manual, but it fucking worked really well.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Hell no. But you know, I'm telling you, I brought that to units after I did. Like we would have we were just as tight at 1-7 uh as we were at 2 4 because I I made it mandatory. Like we would meet each other's families, we'd have family nights, we'd have like barbecues and stuff like that. The whole platoon would get together on Saturdays and we would break bread together, and you know, we knew why we were going through that door. Like it's important. A hundred percent all that leadership, you know, from the guys that I serve with in 2-4. So I brought that to you know the rest of the you know, my career.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Do you remember that uh door that we couldn't get open? It was like damn thing was like six feet wide and eight feet tall with solid wood. Oh yeah, and uh I it was you and somebody else cut was trying to mule kick that for like 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_02 9:04

I think I blew my out trying to you know kick that door open.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

There's no surprise on that one.

SPEAKER_02 9:09

We were like, man, I'm gonna get through it.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

We we eventually did.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

I was like, God, man, find me a sledgehammer or something. Like I need to damn. Yeah, that's too funny.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

It it's funny the difference because like we're all in the same company, right? And but it's funny the difference, like map three had all of the guys who are trained in breaching, they had all gone to breachers course, like they actually knew how to blow down doors, they were blowing doors down, and you guys are like, We have a large Lance Corporal, we'll just we'll just use him. Like that that's the goal. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:54

We don't need urban mobility breachers course. Come on now, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

It's such a funny, uh, funny difference between just two platoons in the same exact spot.

SPEAKER_02 10:04

Put some jalapenics on it because Lance Corpel eat his way through that door. Awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

So go back to let's go back to after Worth. Uh did you and let's jump forward a little bit to uh early April. Um first battle of Ramadi. Um now we were on camp uh that week.

unknown 10:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

So um I was in the company, I was radio that when it first kicked off. I was man in the radio. What was uh where were you? And uh did you end up being part of the uh one of the people that got snatched up to go out later?

Improvised Breaching And Unit Chemistry

SPEAKER_02 10:45

And uh I did not go out the first day. The first day I was up on post uh up on top of the bridge. And um I'm sitting up there and I'm listening to all this on the radio, and I'm I'm listening to the ROEs change, and you know, we're watching guys ride around on motorcycles and stuff like that, and we're watching rockets get fired and all kinds of madness. Uh, I did go out um when we you know we piecemealed everything together uh the next couple of days, but the first day I was on post. I was up there with Wolf.

SPEAKER_01 11:18

Okay. And we guys engage from up there? Did you have any targets of opportunity?

SPEAKER_02 11:22

I actually didn't engage that day. I didn't uh there was nothing. Called out a lot of intel about um because remember there was um individuals that were riding motorcycles and stuff like that, and there were there was uh a whole lot of uh individuals that were instigators, uh reinforcement guys, stuff like that, put observers, all kinds of stuff. So um I would uh throw a lot of intel out on it, but we did not engage from the bridge that day.

SPEAKER_00 11:55

Yeah, on the sixth, that was the correct from from what I saw uh in the north of the city. That that was the heaviest way that they were reinforcing was drop it'd be a second or even sometimes three dudes on a motorcycle, right? And they drop off the back two guys, the motorcycle guy would speed off and pick up, and they were able to literally surround a unit very quickly because you know it could drop you off anywhere and and constantly move people around. And and ammunition and weapons. I did see that as well, where there was people carrying like people carrying RPKs and stuff, and like literally driving over, and then you'd see the same motorcycle speed off, and they weren't carrying it anymore, so they're dropping it off to somebody.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

So they were actually smart enough not to ride across that bridge or around that roundabout in front of Hurricane Point with any of the ammunition and stuff like that. They weren't within like machine gun range of us because now we obviously wouldn't have dealt with it. Right. But um we could we we were calling it out, um, letting everybody because you remember how you could get to Route Nova and you could see it from the top of the bridge and Michigan down the so we would call it out. Hey, they're being reinforced on this side. I don't know how much that didn't tell you guys were receiving, but uh we were calling it out that there was a lot of movement, and then once the whole thing kicked off, like anybody on the streets, you could tell they were they were they were invested. So yeah. Yeah, so that my day I got stuck on post. Shit. I I mean um we couldn't even get relief. Like we had to stay up there because all the guys were like reinforcing and everything like that. I understood it completely, but yeah, the first day of the sixth, I got caught on post.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

So what'd you end up doing on the seventh?

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Seventh, um, we um would get in our vehicles and we would get in where we fit in, kind of thing, like any of the map platoons would go out, or you know, we would you know piecemeal things together and we would ride out to do reinforcements, you know, medavac runs, uh, any of that stuff. So yeah, the city, um shit, the city was crazy, man. Uh uh, you saw it more than I did, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

And I know so I know you guys were very heavily uh used for the eighth and the tenth. Uh I'm I'm curious. Do you remember much of either of those? Eighth was Operation, I think it was County Fair, is what it was called. I don't know. Let me look at my notes. I always have to look. Yeah, it's Operation County Fair. That was the first small scales cordon search. And then on the 10th was the bigger one. That was the first big bug hunt when uh did everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yep, yep. We had uh um a couple of different little uh compounds that we were responsible for, like we had the uh you know, cordon search, whatever, and um there's some engagements here and there. Um, you guys were in way more engagements than we were on those. We were caught in searching and all kinds of other shit.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Actually, on the 10th, we did uh as far as like heavy gunfighting, very little. Uh we got in a short skirmish with a car of reinforcements that just basically took a wrong turn, I think, and met us. Uh, but outside of that, uh, we were mostly the outer cordon element. It I felt like it was you guys and golf and echo that took that ended up in more gunfights on the 8th and 10th. We were a bit more busy on the sixth and seventh. Okay. And then sort of after that, uh, anything that pops to mind sort of going into March, or I'm sorry, into May?

April 6–10: Battle Of Ramadi

SPEAKER_02 15:25

Um see the dates, you guys are better at uh remembering the dates than me.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Uh that's just because we wrote it down.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

I was gonna say, I I have the benefit of writing all this down after talking to everybody.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

So yeah. So uh when did the um when did the sergeant major run it off into the night uh happen?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

So that was actually before the Battle of Ramadi. That was on April 1st.

SPEAKER_02 15:50

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:51

But that's a good memory if you want to tell that one.

SPEAKER_02 15:53

Oh man, dude. Um was that the same night that the RPG got shot down the road and came through the window of the high back and hit that engineer guy?

SPEAKER_01 16:08

I think so. Or at least it was close, it was near near about that time. So we're that was our first cat, that was like our first casualty night. And I think if I remember correctly, that's part, I think that's why we were all out. So then because I think because that's because we had the battalion commander and the sergeant major and I think the XO like all with us because we were quick reaction, we were the quick reaction force, and we went out after they got hit, if I remember my timeline correctly.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Um maybe. So as far as I know, uh depending on which engineer you're talking about, if you're talking about the one that was attached to Fox Company, Lance Corporal Dang, that was actually a week prior. So that was a different time. However, on the night of April 1st, when you would have had that, uh, there was an army brigade that had their, they had their engineer guys got hit by an IED. And so that may have been the same thing. I think that's why the command element was out, was part of that when the army got hit and they asked for reinforcements, so the command element went out. Yeah, okay. With you with you guys as reinforcements.

SPEAKER_02 17:13

Okay. Yeah, did the one where we uh we chased old boy around, um, and he he ran up to that tow truck, and then the other guy, uh, either muster you or or cook, I think, shot the guy, and um he was in the alley, and we were still I I thought that was the same night we were looking for the sergeant major.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah, it he that was the night that he took off. Yeah. Yeah. And we were looking for I would see him pop up every once in a while, and eventually.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

We're like, where the hell have you been, guy?

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Like that was and then that's that's when we found um, yeah, then we tracked uh the guy got gut shot.

unknown 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Found him at the uh um actually my memory of that one is is that they had pulled him, they had pulled him between the um the house and the and the uh the wall for the compound. And they were spraying the spraying down the driveway to get rid of the blood um smear. And uh we got in there and uh I don't remember who it was, but one of the officers uh had their little deck of cards out and being like, is this one of the bad guys? You know, and we were trying to like and he couldn't see he couldn't see their face, but this motherfucker was fat as fuck. Yeah, and uh he was dead, and it was just big enough for me to get back there, and I'm like trying to drag this body out from between this thing. This dude was probably 200, 200, some odd pounds. You know, I'm I'm a buck 60, you know. And I finally get him out and he's on his stomach. And uh the the officer that asked me to do, like, he's like, flip him over, I need to see his face. And I'm like, sir, I this is and I'm already covered in this dude's blood. I finally flip him over and I barely got him over. And when I dropped him, his head hit the hit the ground and made a pretty big uh coconut sound, and whatever, whatever the whichever officer it was, he ended up throwing up because he got like it was too gory or whatever. He was like, Oh, too much, too much. And I was like, Well, do you see his face now? He's like, just take a picture. I was like, okay. So I pulled my camera out, took a picture, and then we submitted it.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

So that ever turned out to be anybody?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

Yeah, see, I don't think so. Never came back down to us, like like it was it was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 19:37

Yeah, no, we I I very rarely did we find out whether or not, or at least I never found out. I mean, maybe it was coming down nylon. You you were you were in more of those briefings than I ever was, and so I don't know if the you guys if if the f if the information filtered back down, but I mean the the number of steps to have it come back to us was absolutely stupid.

Intel Gaps, Motorbikes, And Cordon Roles

SPEAKER_00 19:59

There was only two of the big high values. Well, I guess three. Three big high values that I ever heard of. Number one was uh map one, did a coordinate search on the morning of April 6th before the Battle of Ramadi ever uh kicked off and got one of the Republican Guard guys uh that was in the deck of cards. Yep. Uh on the seventh, there was a guy who was involved in a gunfight, got shot through the leg, and he ended up being somebody very important. I don't I don't know what he was. He was somebody very important that was also in the deck of cards. And then in very much later in the deployment, this is the only intel that I ever remember getting back. Uh, in August, that was when our uh Delta team and you guys, as the Corden, uh sussed out the driver for it was uh Zarkawi's driver and a couple and a couple other of Zarkawi's associates who ended up being Al Qaeda.

SPEAKER_01 20:51

That would have been the one that uh Oliver North was with us on.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

There were there were two brothers in that, right?

SPEAKER_00 20:58

Yeah, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Was August?

SPEAKER_00 21:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Oh, okay. Yeah, I remember that because um they actually tracked me down uh later on. Um I think you guys have all gotten out by then, but um, they tracked me down and they actually had to have me do a like a zoom thing like this and um tell them about that whole operation so that they could keep in jail. Like he's brothers still in jail. And yeah, yeah, they were they're actually those are the only two that I ever got uh on. But yeah, they they called me and they said, Hey, we need you to, you know, make a statement or whatever about how you caught caught him or whatever and what the intel was. I said, I I don't want I gotta be honest with you, man. I didn't know the intel until we got them to the uh detainment center that these guys were you know somebody important, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:52

Well, and that's a very good point, is that we didn't get pre-op intel on very many things like that. We just like if you see somebody snatch them up. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:02

Well, we knew we knew this one was a bigger one, and it because because Delta was a part of it, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:09

That was the only indication that something was going on.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

And then that's the one that Oliver North was with us on, also. And that was a big compound. There was a fuck ton of people in that in that place, but that's also the one. I don't know if you remember this, Wade, but that was also the time that some rando came up to the compound and asked to make a long story short, asked to get um some people out of there that they were like they were like some sort of asset um for some sort of alphabet company. And they came in after getting clearance and stuff like that. And they we already had put bags over their heads and they picked up the bag uh bags of everybody um and picked, I think it was like two guys and like where's their gear? And we handed, you know, took their bags, took bags off their heads, cut their zip ties, gave them back their stuff, and they walked down the street. But it was uh it was two guys that were American Americans.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

That was a CIA guy. Yeah, he he showed up every once in a while. And is he what's funny is he had red hair and like did not fit in as an Iraqi at all. But he always wore the Distacha and the M dress and faked it.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

But yeah, but then they had the uh the informant guy, they had the guy that they had flipped that they they brought in and he was pointing everybody out. Remember when they like I forgot about that, that's right. Yeah, he was on everybody. You remember that? Like he the he faked a limp and he'd come walking in and he's like, Yeah, that guy's involved, that guy's involved, whatever. And uh and the Delta guys that were like, Hey, you know, snatch these guys up, whatever, and we all transported them over. But then Oliver North, like you said, Oliver North was with us, and then you you know, he they made him stop recording and all this other shit.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

I remember those those Delta guys kept trying to get in the shot, and Oliver North kept like he hand face palmed the one out of those guys. He was like, You guys didn't do shit. These Marines are the ones that kicked down the door and did everything. Get out of my shot.

SPEAKER_02 24:03

Yeah, we hit that house and we secured the whole thing. That like you said, that compound was fucking huge, man.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:08

It had the whole interior, it was all open and had all the sleeping where everybody slept outside and stuff like that. That was a huge compound. That was that's we asked them who they were and they wouldn't be they would oh we can't tell you who we are.

SPEAKER_01 24:23

Right.

SPEAKER_02 24:24

Okay. Fucking squirrel.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

I remember when we fight when we when we when we first breached in there and I looked around, I was like, oh fuck, this is this could get weird quick. Fortunately, I uh fortunately that one went really smoothly, but that could have been yeah, that would have been bad.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

I gotta be honest with you, I think that was the first time we ever hit a house and we didn't find any weapons at all.

SPEAKER_00 24:47

Yeah, they were smart. Supposedly that was Zarkawi's mom or aunt or something. No, yeah. It was his relative, it was her house, and so they weren't allowed to bring anything there. That was what we were told afterwards.

SPEAKER_02 25:00

Yeah, yeah, keep her safe. Like you can't give her any reason to go to jail.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

Yeah, that's exactly right. And nobody did. They didn't take we didn't take her in at all.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Yeah. Was it your your guys that um that started the the whole uh Humvee chase of the what they thought was Sarkawi on Route Michigan?

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Wasn't me. I mean, we chased down a few vehicles, but it wasn't me.

SPEAKER_02 25:24

Oh I can't remember what Mapplatoon it was that started that whole thing, but there was like a whole like car chase of you know, thinking it was him or whatever, and like we had all kinds of air assets coming in.

SPEAKER_00 25:36

Nope. No, that was the one mission where we actually had like everything. We had drones overhead, we had like actual stuff. Oh, yeah. Every other time you were just on whatever your eyeballs could see.

April 1st Night: Command Out, Chase, KIA ID

SPEAKER_02 25:49

Yeah, we hit that compound that'll like oh, the Spectre gunship's gonna be on station and all kinds of yeah, we had everything. I forget all this, yeah. It'd be cool to have like on a Tuesday, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

So we kind of we skipped a whole big section of everything. Uh anything, I mean I can hit you with a bunch of like key events if you want, but otherwise, is there anything that sticks out in your mind for over the summer? Basically, from like uh, you know, especially May and June and July. I feel like those were extremely busy months. We had a break in May for a short period of time, but not long.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah. Well, I don't know if you remember, Wade, like we were for whatever reason, our we were pretty heavily involved with like doing a lot of the stuff with that trend the transition, like trying to hand overpower back, and we spent an enormous amount of time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:49

Yeah. Yeah. Remember, we had um we hit that corrupt cop's house. Um God, man, this is bringing up some some old stuff. I haven't thought about any of this stuff in a lot. Oh, it's good, man.

SPEAKER_00 27:07

It's all details. Again, it you you'd be surprised how important all these little weird things from each person. It paints a picture one stroke at a time.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah. Yeah. So um what we were at the government center when they found out about this guy, and we rolled out from the government center to go hit this dude's house. What what were the details on that one, Master? You remember that?

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Yeah, now that you started talking about it, I'm like this, there's like is is this is this the one that was just that was uh it was that big ass or it was a big place.

SPEAKER_02 27:48

Yeah, he gave up. We didn't have to we didn't have to like uh shoot anybody or anything like that, but when we hit his his compound was like ridiculously huge, and we ended up hitting his house and you know taking him to the uh detainment center. And I of course we didn't get any intel brief on what they got out of him, but he was like uh somebody was in there and where we're talking about um they were talking to the government officials about uh this dude being corrupt, and we just rolled out and hit his house like straight from the government center. And um a lot of weapons, a lot of uh other things. Where I think that's where we found all those RPGs and the RPG triggers and oh right.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Is that the place that had the uh the big ass kitchen that was that that was uh set? It was not a part of the main house. And then we uh is that the I think that's also the place that they had uh we found the uh it wasn't a safe, but it was like a in the floor had a bunch of shit inside of it.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Yeah, you pull up all the sleeping mats and it was all in the floorboards, like it was a bunch of RPGs and RPG triggers. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 28:53

Yeah. All I remember from that is that you guys brought back it, had to be some, it was dozens of cases of weapons. That's what I remember. And it there was like, I mean, there there could have been, it had been 30 RPGs, rockets, numerous different machine guns, and in good shape. Like they were clean weapons, not the normal, like broke off bullshit, you know, AKs.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

We found a bunch of paperwork too, like a ton of foreign currency, like shh just yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, I I can't I can't remember what the details were on it because it was like, like I said, it was like we're sitting down there with the trucks, and we had a couple of guys on the roof of uh the government center, and we were like rotating out and doing guard work and stuff like that, and they had um people meeting with the government officials, and then next thing we're like, oh, we gotta go hit, we gotta go hit this. And it was just instantaneous. We just rolled right out and we hit that house, and it was crazy how much crap we found in that guy's house.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah, he he was running a it was supposed to be a modified like political party, more or less. It was called like the Coalition for Iraqi Freedom or some shit. I don't know what it's called. Coalition for something, and uh, but it turned out to be yeah, that he was cashing weapons and he wasn't supposed to.

SPEAKER_02 30:09

So right.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

I remember that part. I don't remember anything else. You guys did take some shots though hitting that house because you're I remember you bringing back two shot up dudes, Iraqis that were yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:21

I yeah, I think it was just like minimal though. Like we when we rolled up, like I think the guards might have shot at us or something. I don't know. But that any of those small little engagements, like it, like none of that really like it isn't that weird, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

Any any other deployment, you hit a house and shot two dudes would be like you're getting a bronze star and you're doing this, and like, wow, you guys really did some shit. This deployment, this is what we call a Tuesday, like that. That was just it just happened every every fucking day.

SPEAKER_01 30:53

Yeah, I think it's crazy. Well, and to that point, too. I like talking to you, talking to Rocha, talking to a couple of the other guys that I like I I don't remember half of these firefights at all. And it's like, oh yeah, I guess I did shoot that guy.

SPEAKER_02 31:07

Okay, yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, it's also one of those things like, yeah, dude, we were doing our job, like it was it wasn't one of those like um later on you gotta document all this shit, and like everybody's like you know, measuring dicks for awards and all this other shit, like deployments that I had after that.

High-Value Targets, Delta, And Oliver North

SPEAKER_00 31:30

So I yeah, actually, I'm really curious because we talked about this before we we hit the record button, and I I would love to hear your version of a of sort of a compare and contrast uh between this and you know, you did some later deployments, but you had one other deployment that was very busy uh to Afghanistan. So I'd love to hear your your version since you stayed in for 12 years.

SPEAKER_02 31:49

I took a lot of the lessons that uh you know that we learned in Ramadi and I brought those to guys that were gonna go to obviously different places. I mean, uh the lessons don't you know carry over to every location, but you know, um taking care of each other the way we did in Ramadi was uh huge in me becoming a platoon sergeant later, you know what I'm saying? So um I had guys in 17 that I showed up and I was like, look, you need to buy into this system, like you need to buy into this whole we love each other kind of thing, and we don't need any bad eggs around. And we kicked a lot of people out of the Marine Corps at 17, and um I think it was like eight eight dudes that were problem kids that got kicked out. Oh wow, yeah. Um, but then we were gearing up for that deployment to Sangin, and I said, Look, it's gonna get ugly. And you know, the mentality side of it was the the huge key. I was like, look, this is gonna get dangerous, people are gonna get hurt. Um, you need to understand that going in, and it's okay to be afraid, it's okay, it's okay to be pissed off, it's okay to be a lot of things, just these emotions are gonna run through your body. I said, uh you need to expect it. And then we geared even PT to include that type of shit. So we would do uh martial arts PT. I said, I'm not gonna deploy with anybody to a combat zone that's never been punched in the mouth. So we're gonna we're gonna fight. You know what I'm saying? We're gonna go to the range, shoot a lot of rounds, we're gonna do a lot of this basic 0311 stuff, we're gonna do a lot of uh 41 stuff, we're gonna do a lot of all these other things. Uh and you know, you're gonna be tough, you're gonna be ready. And I said, we'd sit down and have a lot of discussions. We would we would have uh cookouts at my house, and guys would come over and they drink beer and we'd eat food and we talk about things about you know, you're you're gonna go through this roller coaster of emotions on diploma. You know, some of your friends, some of your best friends in the world are gonna get hurt. And to be honest with you, that was the uh that deployment made it easy for me to get home. I came home, I brought every one of the 81s home with me.

SPEAKER_00 34:10

Congrats. Yeah, no shit, dude. That's good.

SPEAKER_02 34:13

Successful deployment. And um, my daughter said, Hey, I'm tired of watching you go overseas and you're done. And it was okay for me to do that because I kind of I kind of went home on a win. You know what I mean? We had guys that got hurt and a lot of guys in the in the company and in the battalion that got hurt, um, but I brought all my guys home. Um, and and that's not me beating my chest. That's that's one of those things where lessons learned in Ramadi carried over to 17, and these guys bought into a system where you know we learned from our mistakes, and we loved each other enough to to protect each other, and we came home all in one piece. So yeah, very proud of that.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

You know, and and I've we've talked to a couple people like yourself. Latham actually comes to mind right now because he also had a very busy career, and Fernandez both uh stayed in the Marine Corps and and had very busy careers and did other deployments. And I think that's a level of closure that that you're not gonna get in any other way. But you did. You got to go out uh like it's kind of like going to the Super Bowl and going out on a win, right? You know, you didn't where Ramadi didn't always feel like a win, because you're right, a lot of people got fucking hurt and you didn't always know what you were doing or why. It it I bet that's probably good for your soul in a way.

SPEAKER_02 35:36

It is in in a whole lot of ways. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 35:40

That's cool, man.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Kind of coming to the end of the the deployment. Um what do you like talk talk us through what you remember of the of the last uh few weeks coming home and and what that looked like for you.

Corrupt Cop Raid And Massive Caches

SPEAKER_02 35:54

So um the last couple of weeks um was probably the most tense for me. Like it's like we're doing these, you know, last minute um missions, and we're doing these last minute patrols, and we're doing these uh uh right seat, left seat for the guys coming in to replace us and stuff like that. And we you and I were both advanced party going into it, uh, so we were kind of gonna you know push out right away, but uh I was nervous beyond nervous, like to um every time we left the gate. I gotta be honest with you, man.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Like um you're talking about during the left seat right seats on the way out with uh two with two five.

SPEAKER_02 36:38

Yeah, well, there's that, and there's um like even when we started getting short, it's like every every push out the gate, you're like, yeah, yeah. I mean, come on, is this the day they get me or what? Like uh, you know what I mean? And that's a selfish thing to say. Uh, but like self-preservation was it like started to set into my brain a little bit at that time.

SPEAKER_01 37:00

Did you end up developing a a lucky a lucky charm process or uh a ritual?

SPEAKER_02 37:05

Well, it's crazy because I would uh before we go out, I'd put in a brand new dip of chaw. And I said, All right, I'm going condition one. I tell the guy and then uh you you remember when uh when Squib would say that stupid shit? Squib would say it's a good day to die. Every time we were go out the gate, I was like, Will you shut the fuck up, dude?

SPEAKER_00 37:31

Uh I love that guy.

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Dude, I love that dude, man. I I ran into him a few few more times after 2-4. Oh man, dude.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Now, Sergeant E is like one of my I I have very fond memories of him. I I hope to it'd be fun to have a conversation with him on here, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

So he was a gunny when I was a staff sergeant and we ran into each other uh somewhere. I can't remember what somewhere in the Marine Corps. And uh I got a chance to catch up with him for a few minutes. That dude is awesome.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Well, he he got to do uh he was a part of Desert Fox.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_01 38:07

So he was he he was over in Kuwait in what would have been whenever that was in like '99 or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

99, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:13

Yeah. And so like that dude had experience on top of experience.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah. Yeah. Love that guy.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

So it's funny that you say that you were nervous the last few weeks and the left seat right seats and on the way out. Because here is my only real like distinct wade memory. Uh, it is not a nervous wade, that's for damn sure. We I don't know why, but close to the end is when I had the most time with Sledgehammer Platoon. For some reason, MAP2 and Sledgehammer were out at the same time a lot of times, and for some fucking reason, your truck got hit. Uh I if I remember correctly, it was a it was a pretty good size IED, and they had buried a white phosphorus mortar with it. Yeah, and it did not, it did hit your vehicle, did not hit anyone, thank fucking god, because that would have been terrible. But uh, it did burn like a big fucking hole in your newer vehicle. And uh, I remember you getting out and then standing on the hood. I had never seen anything fucking like this. You got out of the vehicle, climbed on the hood of the Humvee, and it was like, you didn't fucking get me, motherfuckers. You literally like turning in a circle with your hands up, rifle slung, not nothing, and then they did shoot, like like we did get shots, and I was like, I is this this is like a fucking movie, like I've never seen anything like this. And you're like, you can't even fucking hit me, and you jumped down, and we all started like shooting in the direction, and we it was it was a couple of dudes pop shots, they got killed like immediately, and I was like, I I can't wait. I've been holding that story for 20 fucking years, waiting to tell that story because that was the funniest, craziest shit I've ever seen. And that was like you guys know that my wife's gonna watch this, right? Yeah, good. That's fine. She needs to know. That was literally in the last we we had we we left, I think, a week or two after that. Like that was literally at the very end of our deployment. And I was like, this is this is the weapons company I know is that these dudes were fucking balls out to the very end. Even if you felt nervous on the inside, boy, you sure did not fucking show it that day.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

I hate the fact that you were there to see that shit because I remember that as hell. And um, yeah. Oh shit.

unknown 40:34

Good.

Normalized Chaos And Memory Drift

SPEAKER_02 40:34

I've again I've been waiting to tell that story for 20 years. So the same situation happened in Stangin in 2012. We got in a big old gunfight, and we were doing a Medevac, and my guy was trying to get on the radio. One of my sergeants was trying to get on the radio to do the Medevac. And he is flipping out on the radio. And I I'm a big stay calm kind of guy. And I go, I get out of my vehicle, I get out of my MRAP, and I walk across the battlefield and I walk up and I open up the door on his vehicle, and I'm like, hey, I had to do it in person because I couldn't get him on the radio. I said, look, calm down. Call in this nine line. Get this guy out of here. And they tell that story every fucking time we get or a fucking idiot. I said, Well, it's it's my job. Like it, I'm sorry. I was a brand new corporal at the time when that happened. I was a probably a pretty seasoned staff sergeant at that, actually, when I wasn't singing, but I'm like, look, it ain't about me. It ain't about it's about us. And look, I need to keep everybody calm. And then that yeah, uh, dude, I can't believe you told that fucking story.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

It's my best Wade story, it's my only specific Wade story.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

Yeah. Yeah, I do, I do remember that. Yeah, you can confirm that was your crazy ass. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

I mean, I I gotta be honest with you, like, my wife is probably the best like marine wife I've ever seen. She's done KVN stuff, she's done all this other stuff, and she, you know, she held the the shit down when I was over there overseas playing G.I. Joe and doing all the dumb shit that I do. And then, you know, for I just try to shield her from stories like this, and she's gonna hear about her a dumbass.

SPEAKER_00 42:32

You're here now, and uh it has us 20 years ago. I was gonna say it has a happy ending.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Yeah.

unknown 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:42

Well, if you have to sleep on the couch for a week or two, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 42:47

No, man, I got square bedrooms in this house, man. My kids are moved.

SPEAKER_01 42:52

You planned ahead.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Well, wrapping this shit up, I I, you know, you've actually already put down a really great message about how important it was that everybody took care of each other over there. And I think that's understated. Uh, I think the combat stories are cool, but I do think the the brotherhood and literally I I've never felt more connected to people in my life than I did on that deployment because of that, because we were taking care of each other and people really were invested in giving a fuck. And it it wasn't just in your platoon, it was in the other platoons and even in the other companies. Like you, you know, I met up with dudes literally in the middle of the street with in golf and fox company, and I was like, Are you okay? Do you need water? Like, are you fucking good? Do you want to just chill in the truck for a minute? Like random shit. And it and it I don't know if that's universal because again, this was my only combat deployment. I can't speak for other stuff. Yeah, um, but I am curious what does this deployment mean to you? Because you had a little bit more season and experience, and now it's 20 years later of reflection.

Carrying Lessons To Afghanistan

SPEAKER_02 43:52

Yeah. Um, dude, it's it's crazy because like when we were doing it, I didn't think um it would have the effect that it did across you know so many generations. And my like I told you, my my son, he learned about it in boot camp, he learned it about it in the school of infantry. He uh shit. I mean, the other day I got a I got a text message from a guy I work with now that he's like, hey man, I'm watching that uh I'm watching that uh documentary on uh Jocko, and he's talking about being in Ramadi in 2006, and they were showing pictures of guys, you know, the Marines that were around and stuff like that. He used a picture of me walking across the uh remember when um Oliver North was with us videotaping us walk through the uh um the downtown uh market center there. Yeah, we had this and what it well, there's video of that um in his documentary. So it all gets mixed up like it's same city, same flight, whatever. I get it, but um that deployment it it kind of was one of those things where you got Marines that uh get get trained to do their job and they never get a chance to do it, and it sucks for them, but then you get what you asked for and it really sucks because a lot of your guys get hurt. Yeah, um that that to me was a uh a life lesson for me, especially when I stayed in and I became a platoon sergeant myself. That I'm not gonna let certain things happen. A lot of things, a lot of mistakes were made on that deployment that got guys hurt. Um, some egos might have got some but some guys hurt. Um and I wasn't gonna let that happen in any of my uh future units. So um I say this to kind of wrap it up with leadership isn't always about like making yourself look good. It's about like taking care of your guys. And I hope, and I I guess I could get my my guys that you know serve with me in 1.7 or whatever to you know testify to this, but later on, hopefully I didn't I didn't make decisions that would get somebody hurt. Obviously, mission. I mean you got you gotta complete the mission, but if if you can do it safely and um not worry about like what the what the history's gonna judge you on and stuff like that. Um yeah. Like I I learned a lot of lessons in that deployment that made me a better leader, I think. And and being surrounded by great guys like you two and you know, Gunny Cook and all these other guys um to show me how to be later in life was um immeasurable. Like I I I can't like I use it in my in my daily life. I I live my life like that um with honor and and try to protect people like we should. And I learned all of that on that deployment.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

That's good, man. That's a good that's a great way to wrap it up, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yeah, I I kind of babbled on there, but uh not at all.

SPEAKER_00 47:21

Not at all. No, that was that was a perfect way to say it. Is uh yeah, lesson of hubris is very, very hard for people to learn.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:30

Cool, man.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

It was a it was an honor to be uh to uh to fight alongside of you, man. If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service.