Constant Combat

A Chiefs Logbook - Manuel Gonzales (part 2 of 2)

• Ramadi Podcast

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:00:08

Send us Fan Mail

Manuel Gonzalez’s notes are exceptional for a charged stretch in Ramadi: VBIEDs, mortars, a TOW shot that made TV, a lifesaving tire shot, and the quiet grit of drivers, gunners, and leaders who kept moving. Outside of the shots and incoming, he also discusses denied extensions, training standards, and how bonds last.

• Oliver North encounter and the grenade mindset
• VBIED engagement, mortar fire, a TOW shot
• City-wide cascade of IEDs, RPGs, and QRF responses
• Operation Traveler and urban sniper contact
• Near misses, decisive marksmanship, and restraint
• Guard duty alerts, fallen Cobra pilot, mortars by the hooch
• A promotion without chevrons as comic relief
• Awards that never came and leadership that still matters
• CAT versus mortars culture, training, and FDC standards
• Coping tools: workouts, books, spades, and distance from home
• Unsung roles of drivers, navigators, and NCOs
• Transition to college and finding real support




----------------------------------------------
If you like what you heard, please subscribe on your favorite podcast service or follow our webpage for direct downloads @ https://www.buzzsprout.com/2525088

If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above. 

All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM 

SPEAKER_02

This is part two of our interview with Manuel Gonzalez from Mobile Assault Platoon 2.

SPEAKER_04

July 20th, we got called out for that BBID. Yep. We took Oliver North with us.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

Oliver North And The Grenade Mindset

SPEAKER_04

Now I remember talking to Oliver North that day, and I said, uh, hey sir, do you need anything? Any weapons, any ammo, any water, anything? He said, Listen here, Marine. The only thing I carry with me is one grenade. He goes, Those bastards won't take me alive. I'll take as many as I can with me. From that day on, I carried one grenade with that same mentality. I didn't, I was not a fan of grenades. I felt like I needed it to take up room. I'd rather have magazines, so I didn't carry any grenades until he said that to me. And he goes, I will not be part of any propaganda. They will not drag me down the streets, they will not hang me on any bridges. I will take as many as I can with me. And that stuck with me. That stuck with me. And I went out there and I grabbed myself a grenade. I carried with me, I carried one with me the rest of the time I was deployed. That totally sounds like something you'd say, too. Yeah. And I didn't realize he carried one grenade.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh see. Where was I at?

SPEAKER_02

And that was the one where uh that was one where we all set up and got and EOD was gonna do the their thing, but then we got more and Mosey shot the toe.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yes. Uh yeah, I have here that the uh uh the motor rounds. Uh they actually landed near Jordan's and Randall's vehicle.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they're pretty close.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, they were extremely close. Uh the mortar scared the EOD guys and they asked if we could shoot it with the tow missile. Mosul shot the VBID with the tow missile, but missed. Lieutenant Stevens was pissed.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Uh of course he ended up hitting it. And uh on the way back, I don't know if you remember this, Nick, but your Humvee had a big hole on the road, and we had two flat tires.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Yeah, we were completely blacked out, and there was a vehicle uh on the middle of the road, and I I told I think it was Radsky or McCabe. I don't remember who was driving actually. But anyway, I told him to swerve to the right, and when he swerved to the right, he went far right. I just meant go around the object. He went basically off the road and hit that, and we had damn near jumped that vehicle because he hit that that hole and we blew both tires and pulled into the government center and had to replace both tires. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

I have here while they were fixing it flat. Olive North came up to me and said, Hey, I got everything on film, including the enderbreak fire, blowing up the VBID, taking the small on fire. He said that he's gonna send it to Fox News and uh he'll make sure he'll take out when Mosul missed the attempt.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and and he did actually. The and that toe shot was on the opening of War Stories for I was like six seasons or seven seasons. It was for seven seasons, that was the opening in the opening credits.

Blacked-Out Return And Flats

SPEAKER_04

No, that was that was great. Uh for him to be out there to see everything that took place. There was so much happening in a short period of time. You know, mortars, fall on fire, blowing up a car bomb, yeah, and then taking off. I know while we were there, I think I have it on here somewhere that we heard a loud explosion coming from the city. Uh, you know, we called it in and no one heard any updates on what it came from. We never found out what that explosion was that night. We think, all right, well, we're heading back. Um uh July 21st, Bastard 5's convoy hit an ID. Uh they took several RPGs. Yeah, Joker's QRF went out and took small armfire and got hit by a VBID. Map3 and Raymaker were sent out reported taking contact in both sides of Route Michigan.

SPEAKER_02

And they they both and they both got hit by BB IDs. And then there was a suicide VB ID like right at the end of the gunfight.

SPEAKER_04

God, I mean I I put on here, it's like now at this time we have an element from Joker, Porcupine, Raider, Map3. And we have everybody out there on this one.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Uh Army QRF, Terminator.

unknown

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

They went out with Bradley's and Abram, I believe.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

Footage, Media, And War Stories

SPEAKER_04

Uh I have on here that I had my first meeting about uh going back to um back to the States or staying there longer. And I remember getting uh in an argument with that career planner uh because he wanted me to be a recruiter because I wanted to stay. And I was like, I'm not interested in being a recruiter. And it's like I wouldn't mind going back to another unit. Um and it was one of those conversations where, well, you know, you're part of the Marine Corps, we we're gonna tell you what's best for you, you know. I was like, best for me being a recruiter, I don't think so. I I I enjoy this way too much to go convince people to join the Marine Corps. I just want to go to another unit. And he said, That's not how this works, and and I said, Well, in that case, and I'm done. Uh so my my extension was denied after that conversation. They won't let me extend the to stay with you guys like I let Hampton. I think Hampton was probably more civilized with the uh recruiter, I mean the career planner than I was because he allowed Hampton to extend. Uh it made me go back. So that's crazy.

SPEAKER_02

I don't remember when did you leave?

SPEAKER_04

I left in August.

SPEAKER_02

I knew it was before I did, but I just did not remember exactly when. Huh?

Cascade Of Attacks Across Ramadi

SPEAKER_04

Yes. And so the moment I knew I was going back, my mind actually wasn't until they told me I wasn't going back out to do any more missions. I think that was my last, I don't know, 10 days probably. Um I started my checkout process. Oh wow. So I got my checklist and I got probably 75% of my checklist signed off while I was in Ramadi. I I went down and I got everything done, right? Sure. Um, so medical, they were like, What do you mean you want me to sign off? I was like, I'm checking out. And they're like, All right, they signed off on it, and they wrote down on my documentation that I will get my physical after I get out of the military.

SPEAKER_02

Nice, of course.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, and then uh they had this checklist. I don't know if you guys had the same checklist that I did. It was, did you see combat? Did you fire your weapon? Did you see dead bodies? Yep, and the guy said if you put yes, they may not let you out on your EAS. So I put I put no on everything.

SPEAKER_02

Nice. Uh yeah, so um and you're like, does that mean today? No, I did not see those things today.

SPEAKER_04

No, I mean uh you know, and I have it on my other notes, but I don't have it here. We're looking at it right now. But you know, one of the scariest days, I think for me, was we did one of those um oh it might have been Traveler. Did we have one called Traveler?

SPEAKER_02

We did. Operation Traveler was on the very beginning of August. It was technically uh no, it was I mean, kind of, it was very similar in the operation, but it was called Traveler that we did with it was a combination between ODA and I believe golf company, although I could be completely wrong. And uh everybody from Weapons Company that was available was out there.

Orders, Careers, And Denied Extension

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yeah. I mean, so I think it was this one here. Um, I don't remember who I was walking with at the time. We're making movement. It might have been Neil or Miranda. Um, and uh this day was probably the longest day for me in combat. Um, we popped a corner and some guy popped out in a black mandress, fired an RPG, but he fired it so fast it hit a tree and just exploded at the tree. He took off running. We ran around a corner and he was uh already switched out from black to white uh mandress. That black mandress was right there. Uh the line company ran after him, and uh we were kind of just keeping our distance trying to find higher ground, and uh we ended up chasing, you know, we cornered him at some point, and one of the line company guys got shot by a sniper in his leg. Yep, I do remember and it came, the guy was right next to me. Oh they got shot, and it came from the corner, a corner house, and they said bring the trucks up. And I remember they brought the I don't know, it was multiple trucks, but they came up there and they destroyed that house.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

I remember someone said, L T, you want us to go pull the body out? He goes, No one can survive that. I mean, they just I mean, every March 19 round the 50 cal destroyed that house.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Um, I mean, we were, I think we might have had a I think we assisted with that Medevac or provided security or some sort. We were getting out, and it was reported there was 12 RPGs fired across uh as everyone's leaving that area. Yeah, and I don't think any of them hit, they just flew over the vehicles. On the way back is when I think Jordan spoke about this uh when that RPG hit the antenna.

SPEAKER_02

Yes. And the bullet went right through Groves. Groves was on the gun. He was usually driving, but that day he was on the gun and a bullet went right through his sleeve. I mean, within a centimeter of his wrist.

Operation Traveler And Urban Contact

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, so we actually we turned around. We were heading back to Hurricane Point, and we turned around. And we go back and we were looking to see where it came from, and uh we ended up getting in that uh that gunfight. Yep, and big boy was right next to me, um Coleman. And Coleman said, Go ahead, go. And he said he would cover me and across on the second deck, someone had a machine gun. Uh I mean the AK-47, and he started firing right at my direction, and he went right over my head. And I said, I said, Do you see where it came from? He goes, up there. And uh he said, I'll I'll get him. And then he started firing at Coleman. I was like, I was like, he's like, Did you get him? I was like, No, I it happened so quickly, and this happened like two or three times, and out of nowhere, Neil comes out, like stands in the middle of the road, sits down, shoots, and kills the guy. It's like, where the hell did this guy come from? He's like Rambo, he's like nowhere. Uh-huh. And I was like, Where the hell were you, Neil? Uh, you know, he took cover somewhere else, and he was making a movement to you know, track where the shots were coming from, and he saw it and he ran out there and took the shot and killed the guy. It's like, damn, this guy's that was awesome. That was awesome. That was that day was pretty scary because I was trapped, and all I had was this um, I don't know, it was a pole made of metal, I think, that was probably about this thick. Um, I don't know what the circumference of that is.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_04

Uh that's all I had to take cover. And I could not get a shot out. Um, you know, every time I try to point my rifle, I was getting shot at, and I say, oh shoot, I'm I'm trapped, and out of nowhere, here comes Neil. And that son of a gun didn't uh he saved me that day, I tell you. Uh but uh I know I think Jordan talked about it when we found where they shot those RPGs, they had a bowl of fruit and a stack of um uh mortar rounds, not mortar uh RPG rounds.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. But um yeah, that guy had been sitting there all day, he had a bottle of water and a bowl of fruit, and uh he was planning to sit there all day and shoot RPG rockets, I guess, because he was all set up in the shade.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah. Uh I'm reading here, I think I missed something here. On July 28th, I was doing guard duty, and I remember the SOG told us, hey, being the watch for a semi-truck with refrigerators is supposed to be carrying a 500-pound bomb.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I do remember that. Yeah.

Sniper Fire, House Cleared, Near Misses

SPEAKER_04

And I think the rest I put, that's not what I wanted to hear at 04. Yeah. Uh also on this day, July 28th, a Cobra pilot got shot.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_04

While in support of Golf Company.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Um Yeah, they never they never actually made it to the city before they got shot and diverted back, but that pilot got killed. Uh Colonel Armsfire. Yeah, Colonel David Green. All signs cookie.

SPEAKER_04

Um a mortar impact about 30 meters from our hooch. It sounded like it was right outside our door, same day.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh I have here July 29th, Snake Pit and Hurricane Point registered their mortars. I was not involved in that either. Okay. Um that same day, July 29th, uh, 1514, while on South Bridge, three mortar rounds hit right in front of us. One about 50 meters away from where we were standing at a post. When it hit the water, it sounded like it hit concrete. I was like, wow, that was surprising. I didn't know what kind of sound it would make. It was right in front of us.

SPEAKER_02

Sure.

SPEAKER_04

Uh now this one would make you laugh. Uh August 1st. Nean, what's his name? Nehemiah?

SPEAKER_02

Newmeyer.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I wrote down that he got promoted, but he forgot his chevrons during his promotion ceremony.

SPEAKER_02

Again, I love these notes, by the way. That's good, dude. That's good. That's a very newmeier thing to do as well.

SPEAKER_04

That is hilarious. I can I remember that day, and I remember Coleman's like, what the hell?

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Was he getting promoted to an E3?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah, he was uh not brand new to us, but nearly new to us. He got there in November, December, something like that before we deployed.

SPEAKER_04

Um I know like Miranda said a story earlier. I listened to his, and he talked about being on that roof and I was there with them when we were uh when that truck was going through our uh I think it was Constantina wire, and it turned out to be a blind man.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

Chasing RPG Teams And A Life-Saving Shot

SPEAKER_04

I I will tell you what, I need a brag of Miranda. His shot was freaking amazing. I I think everybody was aiming at the head of the driver, like ready to take him out. And Miranda shot one shot. I'm pretty sure it was just one single shot. I I'm pretty sure he shot the tire and had that vehicle come to a stop. Yeah, and that truck was moving. That was an amazing shot. I mean, I need to give him credit where credit is due. Uh, I remember I think Cohen wanted to fire his uh saw in that direction, and Miranda is like, uh, no, not right now. No, no, no. We we haven't we're not gonna do that right now. But he took that shot and he saved that guy's life. That guy would have been killed by you know so many different people that had their weapons on them.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Um yeah, that was I don't even remember what day that was, but yeah, I remember that. Uh because I remember running out to the middle of the road to uh shoot at the guy and he stopped.

SPEAKER_04

No, that was that was crazy. Like I said, I think about that shot all the time. He did an amazing job. Um looking here. Echo company had a VBID explode between vehicles. Oh, this is the one you talked about. First V first VBID with a man inside still in it. Um I think in August, I think this is August 4th or August 7th is when they tell me that uh they're gonna keep me from going out on these uh uh these missions.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And uh they wanted me to get home. Uh you know, it kind of goes back to I know I heard you guys talk about it when you guys were being relieved by 2.5. And uh, you know, they kept you guys out to that very last second until you know you know people almost got killed.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And it was for you guys to go home. And um, and you think about those things. I I didn't know those things happened uh to you guys very to your very last day. Yeah, yep.

SPEAKER_01

Um yeah, I I did not no, I did not know the very last half an hour.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was September September 11th and 12th were ex extremely busy. Uh the 11th kind of started with some running gun fights, and then we got past it. We went out on the 12th, and it was the whole it was like the whole city erupted all over again, and then they uh they tried to overrun the front gate of Hurricane Point, and they tried to jump the gates over at Snake Pit, and it was uh it was crazy. It was it was the most coordinated and largest assault I had seen uh outside of the April gunfights.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

No, that that was yeah, absolutely. That is scary to hear that you, I mean, to the very last second, uh it was you know, you guys almost didn't make it home. Yeah. No, that's crazy. I have a note here on August 8th, sometime today, a Marine from Fox Company got shot in the face. August 8th.

Guard Duty Alerts And A Fallen Pilot

SPEAKER_02

That was god damn it, I can see his face in my I can see his face because I remember us responding to that. Um I cannot think of his name. He was the radio operator for the CO, and it went right through the side of his neck and up through his face and exited. And when we got there, he was just holding it shut and uh and was terrified to move his hand, rightfully so. But he was still using the radio, he was still doing his job.

SPEAKER_04

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02

I can't think of his name, saved life to me, but well, I haven't thought of it in 20 years.

SPEAKER_04

Um, and of course, you guys mentioned this before about awards, because I'm reading here on August 7th. Uh Doc Bundy and Sergeant Williams received, you know, the name accommodation medal are a NAM. Um, you know, I think back to the initial war, uh, the amount of medals and awards that were given out versus the number of awards I heard uh during this uh combat experience in Ramadi. Uh I mean I can I can think of several citations I could easily write on things that I witnessed.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

There's so many different awards that should have been given. Yeah, same. You think about decisions that had to be made and and in an instant.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Um, you know, you think about you know, just you know, these lieutenants, these uh section leaders going out and learning to do their job on a fly. Yeah uh the unknown. Um I think what I think I heard you say this before in one of your podcasts, you know, cat platoon versus mortars are two different animals.

SPEAKER_02

It's funny, I was gonna just ask you that.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, go ahead. I mean, I can compare you guys to 3-5 cat platoon. Uh, they were great. I mean, those guys, they were, I think they what they call you guys, the the cowboys, the the wild cowboys or something when 2-5 was coming down.

SPEAKER_02

That was 2-5, yeah. They said they weren't gonna listen to our advice uh about the city. They said what they had heard in their predeployment brief was that we were cowboys and that we just shot anything that moved and we were not following rules. That was what they told us.

Mortars Near The Hooch And Bridge Impacts

SPEAKER_04

Well, I will say this during the initial war, uh the Caplatoon put their vehicles and their lives in. On the line for so many different, you know, line companies. They were going on the side of the convoys, they were looking for anything moving. Yep. They were so active and so busy. And that's the mentality that Cap Latoon has, right? And you're in your vehicles at all times. And uh, of course, being mortars, it's it's it's it's way different. It's way different. Um I I mean, I think specifically for mortars, we you know, at one point uh we were part of a trap team. So you gotta learn all the hand-and-arm signals, the movement, the contact, the suppressing fire, you know, hand-and-arm signals, the uh land navigation, you know, you gotta do all this movement. Uh, you know, Cap Loon, they don't do any of that. They learn to work from a vehicle at all times. They live in their vehicles. Yep. Um, so I know the adjustment for maps versus Rainmaker and Sledgehammer. I mean, map one, map two, map three was simple.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I know for for myself and John Mark and Hampton, I I think the role we wanted to play was wherever you need us, put us there. Uh, we're not coming in here to be FTC chiefs, we're not here to be FTC guys, we're not here to be FOs. We're we're gonna be wherever you need us. Uh, and regardless of our previous billets and regardless of our previous positions, we knew that we were coming in to be part of a team. And I thought map two was as solid as they come. I was so impressed. We had so much great leadership. Um, and I think I heard you guys say before the number of people that stayed in after Ramadi. Uh that is amazing. I did not realize that until you guys brought that up. Yeah, there's a lot. There has to be a study on that. I mean, how is that even possible? The number of people that stayed in to be sergeant majors, you know, master gunnery sergeants, first sergeants, master sergeants.

SPEAKER_02

Multiple of them crossed crossed, multiple of them crossed over and became officers. We uh we have a few warrant officers. We have one gunner that came from our enlisted ranks as well. So it's uh yeah, it's it's a big list.

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah. I mean, absolutely. Uh now I kind of mentioned a little bit about this before, but uh map two, Nyland, your team, you guys got a really good group of guys that came to work in your platoon. Uh Hampton, a very solid Marine. I mean, that guy is you get you tell him what you want done, he's gonna get it done.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, he may be a bullshitter in the uh freaking barracks or in uh he was always he was always funny as fuck, but yeah, I never I never felt like he, yeah, he was somebody I wanted to watch my back, that's for damn sure.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, absolutely. John Mark, you know, same thing. Him and I competed to be like Marine of the Quarter and freaking learning. We wanted to go to every school, we wanted to learn to train everything, and we competed our entire career. Um, I don't know if you knew this, but John Mark won Marine of the Quarter at our company uh battalion uh and regiment and tied for first at division. Oh, I had no idea. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

That doesn't surprise me though.

SPEAKER_04

But so that's how he got the Meritor's promotion to sergeant.

SPEAKER_02

Nice.

A Promotion Without Chevrons

SPEAKER_04

Uh, because he he tied with an eight-year, nine-year sergeant uh for Marine of the Uh Quarter.

SPEAKER_02

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04

Um Marine of the Year. I don't remember what it was, but it was something big. So I think he has all his pictures of Marine of the Quarter of the you know, company, battalion, regiment, and uh and all the way up to division. So that is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_02

Now, here's the only thing that I remember about you two is that you cheat at spades. That's all I remember.

SPEAKER_04

Now I well, we learned I learned to uh we we played a lot of spades, I will say that for sure. Um I I think it's more intuition with my brother and I don't think we did.

SPEAKER_02

Is that what it is? Even 20 years on, you won't admit it. I swore, I swore because we played me and you played spades against each other because you always played with your brother as your partner, and I would always grab, I'd mostly grab prior, but I'd grab a few other people. And man, we I think we played every night at least one game, and I could have sworn you guys had hand signals or fucking mental telepathy or something, because you guys would kick our ass so often.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, I mean, and that's what the motorments are known for, Spades. Am I right? Spades. I mean, gosh. Um, you know, one of the things uh I did to occupy my time while I was there, uh, I think number one, I spent a lot of time with either Lachard or Sassar Coleman because we were always working out, grappling or measuring our biceps. Uh, but I I worked out nearly seven days a week. Um that's exactly how I you know occupied my time. And one thing people didn't realize about me that I shut out the world when I was deployed. I didn't like calling home. So I only made three phone calls, two at the ATT uh trailer and one on the SAT phone.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

The Tire Shot That Saved A Life

SPEAKER_04

Um, you know, I had that mentality that I wanted to shut out the world and focus on you know my deployment. And of course, I used to tell my mother, I was like, hey, if um I don't care if my grandma dies, don't tell me till I get back. I don't care if my uncle dies, don't tell me till I get back. I'll deal with that when I get back. Right. And she said she understood. And the first time I called home and she answered, the first thing she said was, Your dog died. The dog I have for 19 years. I was like, what is wrong with you? You're never calling home again. I was like, this is why I don't call home. Yeah, and uh so I'm glad I kept my phone calls so 10 minutes. I was like, all right, because I was so cheap I did not want to spend any money because the calling cards were they 20 minutes for$20.

SPEAKER_01

They're so much they made their money off of me, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Or$20 for 10 minutes. I can't remember what it was. And to me, I was like, oh, that's too expensive for me. I'm not spending any money. Um, but that's how I was programmed. I would not do anything, and you know, I never did any tobacco products, even to this day. I never smoked, never dipped, never did any of all that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you and Miranda, man. I uh it's funny. I thought everybody did something, but that's right. I know Miranda didn't. I didn't realize you were that way, too. That's cool, man. That's good.

SPEAKER_04

So I would do nothing but sunflower seeds, and uh so they would send me boxes and boxes of sunflower seeds. Uh every now and then someone would send me some uh Copenhagen or cigarettes, and I would just leave it out on the table because I'm anti tobacco, I've never liked anything with tobacco products, but I know that's what's needed in a combat zone. People need their tobacco. Get it if people don't have tobacco, get out of their freaking way, I tell you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

unknown

Yeah.

Pulled From Missions And Going Home

SPEAKER_04

Uh so that's how I occupied my time while I was there, and then I got into reading books after I got tired of playing spades. So I probably read more books and Ramadi than I did my entire time in high school. Uh I I was just looking for the most random books to read. Um, I didn't watch movies. I wasn't uh I think I had too much ADHD to sit still for movies even at that time. So I could sit and watch maybe two movies the entire deployment.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

After that, I needed to sit outside or I needed to read a book or I needed to walk around. Um I think I got in trouble a couple times for running with and I I think they wanted me to what did they want me to do? Like I think mortars were hitting. I was like, it's it's gonna hit you no matter where you get. Uh I remember who yelled at me for running one time, and I was like, how am I getting in trouble for working out?

SPEAKER_01

Uh no, I I remember I can't remember what it was, but they had there's a couple times that they threw out some real weird requirements.

SPEAKER_02

You had to run with a buddy. That was one of them. You had to bring a buddy with you. You had to have a battle buddy running running in a circle right in front of the hooch.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I yeah, I had nobody to run with. I I was the only one that wanted to run into heat.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um, I'd that was the heat. Um but no, I mean, I think about the team we had. I mean, you think about Randall, super smart guy. Um Miranda, I I'm so impressed with his shooting skills. Um Metroca, I mean, he's a big personality. I mean, his call sign really suits him. You know, was it switchfoot?

SPEAKER_02

Uh footloose.

Awards, Leadership, And What Went Unsaid

SPEAKER_04

Footloose. Yeah um, I mean, that guy he was he was on another level. Yeah. Uh Neil, Neil's a great guy. I I stayed in contact with him uh probably the longest. I think um I think he reached out to me in 2010. I think he was still doing his uh contract work still.

SPEAKER_02

He's not contracting anymore. Uh as far as I know, he's pretty much retired, lives up on a little small piece of property up in the New England area. And uh yeah, he's he's doing alright. He's had a couple health challenges, but he's doing all right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I think it's 2009, 2010. I think he said he's finishing up, he's done. He's not doing any more.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, finally.

SPEAKER_04

Hey, you're done. Call it quits. Yeah, call it quits. Uh, who am I missing on my vehicle? Um Doug Homewood. Homewood, I tell you what, he looked like he was 15 years old. Uh, but he was an amazing driver. When they told him he was gonna be a driver, he took that test serious. Uh, I don't remember who he said someone took him out to learn how to drive uh with MVGs, and uh he only had like a day or two to figure it out, and next thing you know, he was out driving.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

You know, that is amazing. Uh these drivers need to get credit where credit is due. Um that is a tough task. I never wanted to be a driver ever in the military. Um, but to be a driver in a combat zone, that's just as scary, it's tough. Um who was who's our first vehicle? Is that Randall? He do all of our Randall.

SPEAKER_02

Randall was first vehicle 90% of the time.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. So I I think I think that's how it was for us, and um of course with 81s and while we were deployed and our other stuff, I was the first vehicle. I did a lot of the navigation. Yeah, but it usually comes with FTC, um, you know, plan doing all the planning.

SPEAKER_02

When he got sick of it, I would take over every once in a while and do first vehicle, but mostly I was the last vehicle. And that that was just that was how we split it up.

SPEAKER_04

No, I I thought Jordan was great, I thought Harden was great. I mean, you we had some great NCOs. Um, I hope I didn't leave anybody out that I'm thinking of. Uh, but they were, I mean, uh McCabe, I think he was NCO at the time too. He was? Um, I mean, gosh, I mean, we had a lot of NCOs there.

SPEAKER_02

We we were we were very we were very sergeant-heavy. I mean, we had a lot of sergeants, but we were area NCO heavy. We had uh uh, I mean, the whole half the squad bay was sergeants and corporals.

CAT Vs Mortars: Different Worlds

SPEAKER_04

So yes. Um, I know when I got back from um Ramadi, got back to the state, um General Mattis was there and uh greeting, shaking everybody's hand as we were coming down, and uh we ended up waiting there for four hours, so I think we all joined the VFW uh just to pass the time. Nice. Uh but when we got back, I think I was out first out of everyone that came back because I got you know 75% of my information done uh while we were in our in Ramadi.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Um so I remember I mean as soon as I did what's it called? Tap tap?

SPEAKER_02

Tam and tap yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, I knocked that out, and I bet the very next day I was gone.

SPEAKER_02

Damn.

SPEAKER_04

I mean, it was that it was that quick.

SPEAKER_02

And so you came back like mid-August, like when were you when were you out? Mid-September?

SPEAKER_04

Well my yeah. I had um so when we got back from our Iraq deployment, I decided I didn't want to go home. I think it's what it was. Or was it no, I went home for Iraq deployment post-deployment or pre-deplo-deployment, but I didn't go home for Thanksgiving or Christmas. I didn't, I stayed, I stayed around when everyone else went home. Yeah, I stayed back because I was like, oh, I'm gonna EAS at some point, or I'm gonna, you know, go find something else to do in the Marine Corps. Um, so I had a lot of time for terminal leave. I think I had like six sixty days. So um, so I think I got paid out quite a bit too nice for my butt I know the transition from Iraq uh to college was it was difficult for me being around these kids that walk slow, move slow, just sleeping in class.

SPEAKER_01

Like uh I had a handful of professors pull me aside and be like, okay, listen, you can't talk to them that way.

SPEAKER_04

Oh no, one of the you know, I I had a professor that had a strict rule if you fell asleep, you're out of her class, get out. And she told uh, you know, one of the young guys, he goes, Hey, get up, get out of my class. And he goes, Oh, I'm working two jobs, I'm going to class. She goes, I don't care, get out of my class. And he's like, Well, you can't tell me. And I stand up, it's like she said, get the hell out before I drag you out. And she thanked me and told me not to do it again. Ah, that's awesome. He says, Uh, I've been doing this for 35 years, I can handle this. I said, The disrespect, I tell you, the disrespect drove me crazy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

Map Two’s Culture And Careers

SPEAKER_04

Um, but no. Uh, I know when I went to college, I was one of the first guys to come straight from combat to go to college. So my I went to a junior college first and they were really nervous. So they ended up like watching me like a hawk, making sure that they provided, you know, the the right amount of services, that they have someone assigned to me, did they monitor me? Um, and then they had me do an interview at the end, do a checklist of what they did right, what they did wrong. Um, so that was good for under at college. They did great.

SPEAKER_02

That's that's really amazing. And definitely not the experience I had, but that's that's cool. What college was that?

SPEAKER_04

Well, I went to South Plains College, quite outside of Texas Tech, and then I went to love.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's good. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, and then from there I went to University of North Texas.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, those are good institutions, man. That's uh it's good they took care of you.

SPEAKER_04

No, they they did great. They did great. Of course, I would come down when my brother stayed in, he went to be a drill instructor. So I got to spend some time on the uh depot with my brother. Nice. So uh I would go in, I would get a high and tight, uh shave my face, and go stay in a duty hut. Nice as a civilian, you know, when he was a senior, I would come down and stay in the barracks with him. That's awesome. Uh the week of graduation, so it's when I would come down. Sure. So that was a lot of fun. Um, but after that, you know, we do our best to stay in contact. I think our go-to guy is Brian Fox. Yeah, Brian Fox has done an amazing job keeping everybody intact.

SPEAKER_03

Good dude.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, I think most of our events that take place is probably has either his name to it or another guy we have is uh Scott Burton. Uh he didn't report it with us, but he was with us with the 81s. Uh I think those are our two gurus that get us together, even as painful as it is, they schedule something. I think once you schedule a date and a time and specifics, people will agree. When you start saying, let's meet up at some time, uh, no one agrees to it. But uh those two guys are really good at being very specific on dates and times and locations.

SPEAKER_02

That's good.

SPEAKER_04

So now so I think the last time we all met up was probably Brian Fox's birthday when he turned 40. And then you know, we had a pretty good group of probably 12 people at least showed up.

SPEAKER_02

He said when he turns 50 he wants to do it again. That's what he said. So you might as well start planning now.

SPEAKER_04

I know, I know it. But uh, you know, I didn't realize you were an FTC chief. Um, you know, that's the first time I heard of it when I heard this podcast.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And you know, I don't know why I didn't meet you while we were up there. I think everything just completely changed when I got there. The mentality of being doing mortar uh duties and activities just completely changed. And I was so worried about learning the Martin 19 and make sure I knew how to get the gun back up and loading it and learning the parts. Um, I think I just lost track of you know the duties of an FTC chief off there. We we've kind of talked.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, go ahead.

Spades, Workouts, And Coping

SPEAKER_01

I was just gonna say I I'll it's the same, it's the same for me when when I was told that that was not what we were going to be doing, and then I was also cast out with some very specific roles and responsibilities that I I couldn't keep my mind. I wasn't it wasn't my responsibility anymore. And so I kind of flushed it off to the side and focused on what I needed to be doing, so it is what it is.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we've talked about it, we've talked about it on the podcast a couple of times. It's it's interesting how siloed you get very quickly, and you don't even really know you don't know anything about. I mean, literally, he was two buildings away from you. I I bet you didn't have very many conversations when we were in Iraq, even right?

SPEAKER_04

Like not at all, right?

SPEAKER_02

Not at all, yeah. And I don't even think I remembered that you guys were mortarmen, like I think I knew it at some point, but it didn't matter because you weren't mortarmen when we were in Iraq.

SPEAKER_04

So absolutely, and I think I heard Blake talk a little bit about his uh you know experience with going through different schools and and opportunities. I think my experience and training was very similar to Blake's. I I think the first school I went to was FTC school, yeah. And of course, we went through the entire trap team stuff. Yeah, uh, I became a Hearstmaster, and then I went through mount school.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, um, and then you're listening, you're listing off all mine.

SPEAKER_04

Uh and then of course I I do uh the co-weather package there in Bridgeport.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, I did it that one. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04

I did that one. So I mean, I you look at Blake's resume, and you just put his name on it, and that's how I put mine. Yeah. Uh yeah. I mean, I think you just went to a uh a language school that I didn't go to, which I wish I would have gone to. That would have been a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

No, I I tell you, I my brother's schools will be completely different than mine. Uh, right off the bat, they sent him to all their leadership schools. He went to Copel's course, sergeant's course, uh, platoon's leaders course, uh, you know, sergeant leaders course. I mean, every leadership course you can imagine, he got to go to.

SPEAKER_02

Nice.

SPEAKER_04

And uh, I think for me, I had a guy, two guys that really uh allowed me to go to the fund schools. A guy named Sergeant Riggs, who's my FTC chief and section leader at one point, uh, took over his spot. And then Gunny Bishop, he was our company gunny. Uh, but he was also a sniper at one point and platoon sergeant for state platoon, and he's a hardcore guy. You know, you gotta speak very highly of your company gunny. That's how I feel about my company gunny in the past. So they always hook me up with opportunities to go to these schools instead of going to corporal's course and sergeant's course.

SPEAKER_02

Nice, nice.

SPEAKER_04

Uh so I got lucky there. I know I got to meet your company gunny once that I can recall. I think within my first two weeks there, he did ask if uh, you know, what other skills do I bring to the platoon? Uh you know, can I weld? Can I torch? Can I, you know, can I cut hair?

SPEAKER_02

Dude, he was that's a resourceful man. He was always looking for ways to expand the cap capabilities of anything.

Team Roster And Unsung Drivers

SPEAKER_04

And he popped up everywhere. I no matter where you go, he popped up. So he was a busy man. I give him that. I know you guys speak very highly of him. Yeah. Uh You know, I I got to serve with a lot of lieutenants and a lot of uh Safi COs with uh 3-5 and 2-4, and I tell you, I was uh impressed with Lieutenant Stevens and uh Sasser Coleman. Um I I tell you, I he made that deployment uh where I I enjoyed it, even though every day there was mortars, there was rockets, there was IEDs, there were snipers, there was car bombs. You never know what tomorrow brings, but he got you ready for that next mission. Yep. And uh he he did an amazing job. Uh I know I don't say this enough, or you probably guess don't get this enough, but you know, having everyone have a platform to talk about their experience is just amazing.

SPEAKER_02

Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_04

And I tell you, the guys that deployed with us 224, uh, they they that's all we talk about. We we talk about those experiences. Uh we probably talk about those more than the uh experiences with 3.5 because it was a different experience. Uh I know when we talk about we talk about 3.5, it's typically about uh, you know, while we were deployed, the stop loss guys left, we took over. We got our first drop of boots, and we've taken over, and and that's a lot of fun. We you know, we had our meetings on how we're gonna do things different and how we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this. Um but Blake, you can probably uh understand what we do at an FTC. We get to pick the the cream of the crop. So we get to have first pick of all the drops, all the boot drops. We think, all right, I can tell this guy looks like he's smart, we'll take this one. Uh this one looks like he's physically fit, we'll take this one. I know our FTC was held to a pretty high standard with 3.5. Uh, of course, we had to have the uh you know PT studs, we had to hire the guys that want to compete in any school that we sent them to. Our uniforms had to be the best, uh, our rooms had to look the cleanest. Like it was like everything for FTC was pretty high standard with 3.5, and that's one thing we did maintain. Uh, you know, so when we trained these guys, it was it was hardcore. And I know you guys talked about the way CAD and um 81s are a little bit different.

SPEAKER_03

Uh I do believe that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Uh you saying the uh this needing to be the smartest, uh very quick story. I don't know if I've told it before on on here, but um the how I got brought over because I was put on the gun line at first. And uh how I got brought over was it was real fast. It was worth the first few weeks. But I was uh out in the smoke pit early in the morning before even PT. And uh Gunny at my gunny at the time called me over and uh it was gonna be just back in the garrison, and so I had my contacts and and uh he pulls me over and I was like, Yes, Gunny. And he's and he looked at me for a second and he's like, I thought you wore glasses. And I was like, I do, I do, I just have contacts and we're not going out to the field, and so I wear contacts. He's like, Oh, oh good. I needed I needed a smart guy because we're gonna sending you over to F DC. So I like to I like to tell the story that I got put into FDC because I was smart, quote unquote, because I wore glasses.

Training, FDC Standards, And Risks

SPEAKER_04

Um, I I tell you what, I I think we were looking for, of course, the smartest and the fittest. We would love to have both, but if we could take a combination of those, that's what we did. And uh I don't that was the part that was a little hard too when we went to 2-4. Was we just got that boot drop and we were training them for their deployment. Yeah, and of course, 3-5 was you know, one of the units that got sent to um Fallujah. Yes, and those are our guys that got hit up there. So our junior marines were the ones that got, you know, they were casualties there in Fallujah. Uh so that that was hard to take too because I know a lot of us wanted to be part of that that training to prepare for their next deployment and do that changing of the uh changing of the guard, if you know you if you know what I mean. It's like, hey, you guys want to take over? We're gonna you know give you full reign. And uh we didn't get to have that because we we left and went to 2-4.

SPEAKER_01

Uh but that was an exciting part of uh Nylan and I talked about that for a uh when we first when we first got out, that was actually a topic that we talked about quite a bit, in that we we didn't get to train our guys the same way that we would have wanted to have trained our guys because of the Romani deployment in relationship to how everything got spun up. And I was and I very specifically uh in regards to mortars, is we didn't touch a mortar system for a year plus on like how to deploy in conventional warfare. And I was legitimately concerned that there was going to be some serious training accidents uh coming into the next cycle because nobody, you know, nobody knew how to act.

SPEAKER_02

You lost your weapons handling skills, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And so um, and unfortunately, and it ended up panning out to be true, there was a couple very serious training accidents or mortars in the like early teens, late aughts. Um there was actually, I think there was like might have been even two deaths, um, unfortunately. So anyways.

Teaching The Next Wave

SPEAKER_04

Um right before we went to 2-4 and right before we went to Minneapolis, we um we did our first live fire with our new lieutenant and our new um you know staff NCO assigned to us. And you know, it we done it so many times, you know, we knew exactly how many radios, vehicles, ammo. We had ammo text, we had, you know, we arranged for everything to get done and ahead of time. And you know, I would go to the lieutenant, just like sit back, relax. I'll show you how this is done. And when we get there, we're gonna let the uh these junior marines or or new guys take over FDC. He goes, Are you kidding me? I was like, There's nobody out there, just targets, all right? They're gonna learn how to do cough or fire. And uh, but that was fun watching them. I have a picture of me sitting back, uh talking to the FOs, letting them do all the data, plotting board and everything like that. Learning how to use the book, learn how to use all the data. So that was fun. Um, but no, that's that that is the important part about the Marine Corps too, is training your next group. Uh, you know, training them to get ready for their next phase and their career to be good leaders. So I know I I had an amazing uh leader that taught me, and he got to work with me from the beginning until he left. Nice. Um, and then he continued on because of stop loss. Um so I got to spend a lot of time with him. So he trained me to be pretty hard on my guess. Um so I know, like as I mentioned before, when we got to 2-4, I knew my role was going to be completely different. Um I'm gonna take a complete step back and just kind of fit in where I need to fit in, and you know, let you guys run the show and wherever you need me, you can never get a complaint. I will do whatever I need to do, and that's what exactly what I did.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it's funny. I I I actually before I got on today, I was like, I don't remember Gonzo ever complaining about anything. I I really didn't, like, I truly didn't. And that's funny. I I your brother complained a little bit, just in case you were wondering. Uh not much, not seriously, but he pulled me aside a few times. But I never remember you having an issue with anything. Uh, you know, even if Chow didn't show up, okay, whatever. Like it there was never it was good, it was real good, man. And uh I I never got a chance to think because I was always trying, I was constantly trying to plan the next mission. But in reflection, I don't know how I would have handled being in your position. That's it's unusual to be a leader and then get stuck into another platoon where you're probably not gonna be the leader because you're coming in in the middle of everything. Like that's oh it's real hard.

SPEAKER_04

No, absolutely. And I I think the first 72 hours it hit uh that this is completely different. Um, I I was so used to being involved in every briefing, yeah. Uh the planning, the preparation, the training. Um and uh and I had to learn to take a step back, and uh, and that was different. That was completely different. Uh and um no, that that took some time. That absolutely took some time.

SPEAKER_02

Well, I'm glad we earned your trust because uh yeah, that I in your position, I think that would have been very hard for me too.

SPEAKER_04

Well, and I will say this when we left, we got to meet the other combat catcher replacements in Kuwait, they talked about their poor experience. They were treated like I mean trash. They were only allowed to do like fire watch, and they never left the compound, they were not assigned to any senior billets. I mean, they were treated terribly. So the guys that we know that got into the Syrian border, uh Najaf and Baghdad, they hated their experience there, they don't even want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_03

Huh.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, when we came out to exchange stories, um, they did not um want to talk about it.

Fitting In, Trust, And Role Shift

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. I mean, I'm fortunate I can't speak for any of that, but I can say it after what we went through in April, it was palpable how short we were of people and guns. Yes. And so honestly, I I you it you guys were amazing. So this I'm not saying you could have been a uh you could have been a donkey with a gun at that point, I would have accepted you because we needed we really needed people because uh it was an it was an eerily awful feeling being surrounded and outgunned, and I'm glad that we came through it on the other side, but we really needed more people, and it it was very welcome. Your your face is showing up in May. We were very, very happy to have you.

SPEAKER_04

Well, and the guys that I was you know running and gunning with as a dismount. I mean, good gosh, they were elite athletes too. Uh Miranda, super great shape, Matroca, great shape, Neil, great shape. Yeah, uh, you know, and of course, John Mark. Uh, everyone there was like super fit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Uh, there was no, there was no one falling behind. When we're moving, we're we're running house to house, we're clearing these buildings. There was no one um lagging.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_04

They were all eager, ready, and I mean, our communication was great. I mean, it was just a great um great team.

SPEAKER_02

That's why I led the vehicle assaults because I smoked a pack and a half a day.

SPEAKER_04

So you did. I mean, you absolutely communicated with those trucks, they knew exactly where to be, when to be. And I mean, no one was ever, you know, lost. I mean, you know, great communication.

SPEAKER_02

No, it worked out well. Well, let's put it, let's put a capstone on this. Uh you've kind of talked about it in little pieces, but if you could summarize like looking back on this 20 years later, 20 whatever years, 22 years later, what does all this mean to you? How do you how do you look at it and how do you explain it to others?

SPEAKER_04

Well, that's a great question. I think for me, um I think um I always say that is that there's only a small percentage of Marines that are just great leaders, and a large percentage are you know great followers, and then you got your freaking nasties. Um and great leaders will, you know, know their role and go in and and uh you know focus on accomplishing the mission and you know help out any way you can. And that's exactly what we wanted to do. You know, the goal was to come back alive, right? The goal was to accomplish whatever task or mission we had, and and uh and I think that's what we were able to do. Um now what's happening in Ramadi and Iraq right now, that's just that's all politics for me.

unknown

Right.

Replacement Experiences Compared

SPEAKER_04

I I just got to that. Um but I thought while we were there, but uh it's just um it's it's different. It's different. I don't know how to explain it. Sure. Uh but we were able to create a new uh bond with new people. I mean, you guys were great. Um but no, that's a tough question for me to answer. It really is.

SPEAKER_02

No, man, I think that's a good answer. I think that's a good way to summarize it. Uh it's been a lot of years since you and I have talked. I'm really glad to see your face. I'm glad you came on here and shared your story. It's been your level of detail and your notes are fucking fantastic. So that's uh you you filled in some events that I think some of us even forgot.

SPEAKER_04

So now at some point I'm gonna finish typing it all out. I think I just stopped at July 29th. I still have all the way to the very end. So once I type it out, I'll send you guys a copy of my time.

SPEAKER_02

Amazing, please. That'd be fantastic.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Um, yeah, I think I have every mortar attack, every VBID, and of course, uh, when anytime a firefight took place, I was I wanted to know what's going on. So I would go to the COC and listen to all the radio communication. That was just my mentality from the you know, 3-5. I want to know what's happening. I took notes on every single thing. Um I I just yeah, and of course I would write it in my journal when I got back.

SPEAKER_02

So that's great, man.

SPEAKER_04

But no, once again, thank you guys for having me. Uh, and once I tap out this journal, I'll get it back to you guys.

SPEAKER_02

Dude, please do. We're gonna talk to your brother here pretty soon. So uh we'll we'll see, we'll see what bad things he says about you.

SPEAKER_04

Well, he has bad memory, so he's gonna forget everything.

SPEAKER_01

That's awesome. Really appreciate talking to you, man.

SPEAKER_00

If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service.