True Grit with the Duke - Lucas Wells (Part 1 of 2)

Excellent interview with the Company XO, Lucas "Duke" Wells detailing how a Marine weapons company became a mobile, citywide cavalry in Ramadi, evolving from thin intel and a weak handover to a five-platoon rotation that broke sieges and mastered the streets. The story follows raids, April’s turning points, a midyear enemy shift, and hard choices that made the unit deadlier.

• senior NCO leadership shaping tempo and standards
• rapid shift from Habaniyah plan to Ramadi reality
• mapping the city at night to learn routes and patterns
• five-platoon rotation balancing tempo, rest, and QRF
• early raids culminating in targeted hits with solid intel
• April 6–7 ambushes, PsyOps push, and QRF breakthroughs
• heavy weapons redistribution to match the fight
• staff NCOs commanding platoons effectively
• enemy evolution to more lethal, organized tactics
• limited cross-talk with Army leading to a closed “box”
• reputation as the go-to city escort

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:37

Fantastic. Let's introduce everybody to who you are.

SPEAKER_00 0:41

Duke Wells is first lieutenant, uh XO weapons company 24.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Nice. And I I don't know a ton about you, which is interesting. Uh I don't feel like as the XO we had as much contact with you as we did with, say, the CO or anybody else. But I know a few things about you. I know you went to Annapolis. Uh and I again I knew you were from Texas. That was all the things I could remember about you personally for that I could remember from back in 2004.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Uh yeah, that's the case. Uh and I was probably more than about the the most senior lieutenant on the deployment from them. We've been at we got there even well before uh the Oki before. Um there for you know before 9-11 even. Yeah. Uh some of y'all were. But uh through that, and then I was uh the weapons platoon commander and Fox Company for the Oki deployment, uh doing the boats and all that jazz. And then and then uh on their turnaround, of course, there's uh XO of weapons there.

SPEAKER_01 1:46

Did you come over then immediately after the Oki deployment? Or was that was that a little when when did that transition that you came over to Weapons Company?

Pre-Deployment Roles And Seniority

SPEAKER_00 1:53

I mean we heard dogs talking about the timeline there. I think it was somewhere late summer, you know, after we got back, and then they did the reorganization, and then we got filled in with new officers and stuff like that. And that was usually the kind of way it went if you were that senior. You know, a lot of the some of the other lieutenants, Lieutenant Apert, I think the previous 81s uh guy, he was my roommate in Annapolis and stuff. He but he was 81s and he but he uh b billed it out and a couple other guys, and I think uh me and Lieutenant Kayler stayed, he was exo echo for a while for uh for that shit happen. Um but that's the kind of time yeah, they do that they did the reorganization there. Um and it talked about it earlier. I think it's correct, you know, there's a lot of been made about how how young the battalion was and all the boots, and I think that's that's definitely the truth. But uh, of course, weapons was just for the nature of it. We we were a lot more senior, had a lot more NCOs, uh and a lot more. I mean, that that's always how kind of how weapons is organized, usually, uh being a little more senior in the battalion. But uh uh I did think that made that that made the feel for us a little bit different. I think the line companies had being so raw. Um but I mean we talk about a little later, but but we were also because of that, we were also tasked with a lot more responsibility, I think, for the battalion, because it was kind of expected on us uh because we did have such you know little bit senior Marines, I guess you could say in that time.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Well, since you already kind of dipped into it, I'm curious about that. Was that the view that weapons company would shoulder a little bit of different responsibilities because of seniority or because of our capabilities? You would know better than us.

Building The Mobile Soul Company

SPEAKER_00 3:30

That and that that and you know, frankly, the whole the the whole mobile subcompany was amazing. That that that was actually Colonel Kennedy's baby. He'd done some kind of like super paper on that thesis at the war college or something. Uh and before taking command, he was in the uh he was our General Mattis staff at the first Marine Division. And uh my understanding is that basically Mattis gave him that command with the understanding that he was gonna operate uh mobile soul company, uh you know, different than than had been done before. So, like going in, and so the colonel knew that, Sergeant Major knew that, Ops guy, uh Major Harrell, everybody. And it was just immediately like, hey, look, this is what we're gonna do. And basically, my opinion, it was like the the glue that held everything together. Nothing else was gonna work unless we got for the whole battalion, the way they wanted to do it tactically, strategically, especially in that city. Uh uh, so I mean, we definitely felt it, and I think everybody else did. Um maybe that how how important it was. But just just just being but just the fact that that all the platoons, y'all, everybody got got that done was you know, especially in hindsight, you see it. That that's a major accomplishment in and of itself. Like you you don't very rarely do you ask any combat units to do anything like that kind of giant reorganization and retasking, DTOing in any kind of environment, much less you know, in the thick of the the kind of combat we see. So just just everybody being able to do that is amazing, and it's been talked about on here. I'm sure you everybody knows down to the vehicle commanders and the gunners how amazing that was, in my opinion, to be able to make that change, how different the tactics are, especially especially over sledgehammer uh rainmaker, right? I mean, it could have been a whole different thing. It could have been a whole FTC, we never left the wire.

unknown 5:24

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

Uh that that's all the whole that's all the whole training and stuff was geared. And what would we have? Like two months of actually doing that stuff before maybe.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

I would even argue less, just because we weren't even the training prior to going over. As far as I know and any of the ones that I participated in, we weren't doing anything out of vehicles. We it wasn't that we were running around and dismounting and stuff. I mean, there's a little bit, but not not enough to be able to be to say, like, oh no, we got training before we went. It was just it was still very foot patrolly.

SPEAKER_03 5:58

Yeah. Yeah, we we certainly didn't incorporate the vehicles into the training at March Air Force Base in any functional capacity the way we used them when we got to Ramadi. Yeah, it was very different.

Training Gaps And Rapid Refit

SPEAKER_00 6:09

I remember that the only thing I remember on that as far as it was fun. I mean, it was a couple of ranges at the end. We finally it was like we did it like fucking LA drive-by's. Remember, we just like practiced running up and like getting the fuck out and shoot, and then that was when we were like, Hey, you know what? These flimsy ass doors are kind of getting our way to get out of the kicking ass. Let's just take those off. Like, nope we're just gonna ride right around no doors so we can get out faster. And uh uh and of course, that from being the XO and doing the company training, him doing all that stuff in the training bass, by the way, it was completely night and day. Like that when whenever that was December or something, like the floodgates just opened and they just started dumping us ammunition rounds, training rounds. That was when you know gun and rocky doing all this stuff in the back range there. Yep. Oh, you know, more the toe shoots, heavy machine gun shoots. Yeah, I remember basically like one percent of that kind of training ammunition or something before that. And then all of a sudden they're like, Yeah, shoot, I'm gonna remember me. Take as many as one. So that's good. Uh I I do think that gave us a little bit at the tail end of helping, but yeah, that's about it. But so that only makes it more amazing that uh on on the fly, uh basically operating tactically as a mobile soul platoons, you know, and having and having every one of them, all five of them, that that was a really important piece because that just really allowed us to maintain total coverage and get the rest for people. Uh that that schedule and having every platoon be able to hold their weight and more made it made it so much smoother and more lethal for everybody. Uh, you know, it was not a weak link in the in the whole thing. So you get five maneuver elements, which allowed us to do a lot more things, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 7:55

No, the way that you guys had it structured, it definitely I I I don't remember which person brought it up. It was maybe Fox or some, I don't remember who it was, but brought up that I never even thought about that it was unique how we had our rotation of you know, the five the five slots of day task vote, you know, et cetera, et cetera. And uh thinking back on it, although we had were at an extreme tempo, I don't remember ever being mind-numbingly exhausted. I mean, days sure, but from a tempo standpoint, I don't remember personally being like, I just you know, I I think about those line company guys and the grind that they they just looked exhausted all the time.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

And so just crazy. Uh but I uh first sergeant Ghani and all and all the all all the platoon sergeants on down. I think one did a great job of trying to hold the line on that. Like if hey, these guys are on nights, and obviously people got jerked around, they got pulled out, would do whatever. Yeah, but generally speaking, we we tried to try to really guard against that because we saw you go out to combat outposts and you see those walking 10 just drudging around. Like this, this can't be combat effective. Now, of course, it helps to ride instead of walk.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

That's a very very true.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

A lot, but uh, but that I just just just being able to get that done in and of itself, I think, made a big difference. Uh, not not just for the platoons, the company, but for the whole battalion, because of that was that was we had such such crucial tasking pretty much all the time.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

When I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it allowed then the line companies, because we were able to be so dependable that if they got into the shit, that we were able to roll out and provide that pressure relief that they were then able to, although that they were pushing hard, they knew that they had you know more or less the cavalry uh to come and bail them out if they need to. And so they didn't need to be as concerned.

SPEAKER_00 10:08

Absolutely. There there is no way that the line companies could have operated like they did, uh, if if they didn't know and not even not even that we would just come out and help them, right? That they knew every time that we we would we would hit the gates go 100 miles an hour and come out and hit somebody in the mouth and save your ass every time. We did every time.

unknown 10:26

Yeah.

Rotation, Tempo, And Five Elements

SPEAKER_00 10:27

Uh and I I obviously by the end, I think everybody on down the line over there kind of recognized that. Uh I I know I know that the company commanders and uh platoon commanders, everybody else definitely did. And then it definitely that's what allowed them to operate like they did. Now we're a little biased here in weapons, so we're gonna put them over time.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah, we won't we won't break our arm too much, patting our shells on the back.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Show me some evidence otherwise. Uh and and then again, going back, that was what it was the colonel and the sergeant major and everybody made it very clear early on that that's what it was gonna be. Like, and you we could see it by you know being in the battalion coc and our coc studying, like, hey, what's going on here? Like, Jesus, they got these guys flung the fuck out everywhere. Yep. Uh and like they're gonna be the that's their only hope. If if they get in a bind, it's us. Uh right. And and it's the knowledge and the capabilities to be able to do that too. You know, you know, y'all were so good to uh know we're the we were the only unit that knew the whole city, that knew the streets, that knew the environment in each different location. Um and how it goes. I mean, it's like if you asked like golf company to go try to run up to so Sofia somehow, and it's a totally foreign territory to them. Uh, you know, so we were the only ones that encompassing knew the the whole AO. And everybody outside of Ramadi knew that too. What weapons company is famous. Anybody that came to Ramadi, whether it's army brass, marine brass, Delta Force guys, and all that, they all knew exactly to ask for weapons. We want a weapons escort, you know, because they knew that we knew we had our shit together and we knew the city the best. Uh, you know, and we started out all gung-ho about it, like fuck yeah, we can do it. But then you're like, wait a minute, if we just keep doing this and then they're gonna give us every damn thing that comes down the line. Uh but then it got to the point where if you give it up, you're like, well, let headquarters do that, escort. But you knew you're gonna have to go out there and save their ass anyway. So you might as well just do it and get it done right the first time. Uh, but no, really, people people come from all over. They already they already come with that reputation knowing, like, hey, don't try to stick us with some headquarters escort or you know, even another company, they're like, we want, we want, we want uh weapons because they need to be.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

It's funny you say that because that's how it felt at the time, but I don't think I remember hearing that, which is I don't know, that's kind of cool. That's good to hear, actually. Uh again, you would have heard it more than I would because you'd be at higher-level meetings than I was, but uh, yeah, that's cool, man.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

That was that was definitely the case. Everybody needs to know that.

SPEAKER_03 13:09

Nice.

Reputation And Citywide Mastery

SPEAKER_01 13:10

So if you don't mind, I would like to I would like to dial back um and talk a little bit about our ramping up process. Um and uh so you know, we get, if I remember the story correctly, we get more or less word where we're going at the Marine Corps birthday. Um, and then so prior to that, we knew that we were going to get deployed, question mark where we were going to go. Um, and then, you know, I would be curious to hear your side of it because being a little equal, you know, all of we got was a scuttle butt that was half true. But then the last part of that is, you know, once we knew that we were going to Ramadi, what kind of information flow did you get of saying, hey, this is how you might want to train yourselves up, other than what we've already discussed about uh how we organized ourselves, but more specifically, like tactically, strategically.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Uh yeah, it wasn't uh I wish I could pull back some big giant curtain, but there wasn't that much information. Like I remember like when we made that when I made this when we got back from uh from OK and everyone's making a decision whether you're going to the B-billets or do you want to try to you know take a weapons company job, wherever that the colonel did tell me for sure, us like, hey, listen, I can't tell you details, but like we're going to Iraq, you know? He wanted me to know, like, you know, like that's what we're doing. Like, I think I think still officially it was Oki at that point, you know. And we're like, well, I'm not staying here and doing other fucking Oki shit. I probably wouldn't survive that. But uh so I remember that then, but then after that, there was no specific, there was like nothing. They like didn't tell you where because it that was like the that was the biggest like land movement, like when we flew over there, a lot of talk of that, all those shitty flights and all that. That was one of the biggest like movements since like World War II or something. That that army, that all army changeover. So they really didn't have any of that mapped out. And I I think I think they knew the first ring division was gonna be in the west, you know, in the Al Ambar. Uh the first information at all I remember getting was maybe after Christmas, and it was a brief like saying we're going to Habania, you know. We're putting up a map, and it was gonna be Habania, Sasso Ops, blah blah blah.

SPEAKER_03 15:30

I remember that as well.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

And the the Marathi, the Ramadi shit didn't, if I remember, it was Kuwait. That's when they were like, Oh, you know what? Actually, all that shit about Habania, don't worry about it. We're switching it to Ramadi because we didn't know I there was no studying or war gaming up anything or knowing anything about the city of Ramadi before I want to say, I want to say until we were on the plane gone and in Kuwait. If not, it was right before, but I don't even remember any talk of Ramadi before we even hit the country. Um, and then uh and then of course I just remember immediately be struck about the looking at the map and like Jesus, uh how dense things are now because Havania was not that big of a place, it was like in between there, you know.

SPEAKER_03 16:16

It's a tiny resort town, yeah.

Orders Shift: Habaniyah To Ramadi

SPEAKER_00 16:18

It it's small, and and uh all of a sudden they're like, Oh, actually, no, you're gonna be over here, and like, well, which part we got? Like, no, you got the whole city. Like, okay. Uh and then those the National Guard or whoever that was wasn't worth it.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

It wasn't it was a national, yeah, it was a National Guard, but they had yeah, apparently, as we've found out, I didn't fully appreciate this, but for the most part, had already pulled out.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Yep, and then it was being covered by I didn't remember that exactly either until I heard it on here, but that makes more sense now why those guys had no interest in. But they didn't have they were just like hungered down, like this is what we do, we're just here to stall.

SPEAKER_01 16:54

Well, they're a skeleton crew, yeah. They they couldn't get they couldn't afford to get into a a fight.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

Right, right. So there's pretty much there's no uh that was all really last minute and no definitely no no planning for that AO. I think I think they I think they I think all that got shuffled together right at the last minute. There's no tell.

SPEAKER_01 17:19

That's very interesting. I guess I didn't really fully appreciate that that would have been the largest movement also. That's uh that makes sense now that you've just actually stated it out loud, but that's that's a fascinating factoid there.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah. I hope that explains why we're on that damn C 141.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

Yeah, there's there's uh I it's that was one of the few stories that I would tell people uh before this type of environment where I'm actually telling more of the stories of of Ramadi, but I would tell the story that trying to get to my war zone, I probably had more opportunities to die than when I was actually in Ramadi. That the damn plane tried to crash like five times.

SPEAKER_00 18:06

But yeah, it was and I and all I remember on that is pretty much the same thing that's been told on here. I guess I don't know who I was with the colonel, but what some of the most of the company, but same thing, New Jersey, snow running around calling cadence, and then Germany for like a week, whatever it was.

SPEAKER_03 18:24

Way too long.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Uh and then uh and then Kuwait there. And so and that one just like Gunny Meraki comes and says, Hey, I don't think you want to know about any of the shit, sir, but I think the army's got a bunch of good shit. And I'm like, just go do it, man. Go do whatever you gotta do. And he just fucking turned it loose. It was amazing, amazing.

SPEAKER_03 18:46

Uh yeah, he let the Lance criminals out of their uh out of their cages.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Oh, yeah. I may or may not have been a part of some of those operations. Yeah, allegedly.

The Convoy North And Thin Handover

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yeah, that's good. Fabulous job. And yeah, and then uh that was kind of weird. That was the first time I've ever been around the army at all. I think most of us too. I remember just being on there, like we were like only Marines in the whole base, surrounded by that many guys. Um then uh the only thing I remember for that is we uh we went to we went to Chow one day in Kuwait, and they had that big huge chow hall, all army, and it was me, Captain Weiler, or maybe maybe some two commanders platoon sergeants, and there was this there was this Marine like warrant officer sitting at the end of this table all by himself, like with his head down. And uh and I remember feeling like okay, we're kind of like surrounded by the army here, and they're just kind of you know, giving us the the stink eye and stuff, and we're like, hey man, double dog, come over here, you know, sit with us, you know, the digi camis. And he kind of like sheepishly gets up, he's looking down, he didn't want to look anybody in the face, and he but he comes over and sits down, and we're like, you know, trying to chat him up because we've I'd never seen him in the battalion before. Like, you don't see warrant officers that much. You're like, who is this guy? Yeah, and he and he and then finally we're like he's like, I'm a reservist, and they they called me up for my job in civilian world last week, and I'm already here, and we were like, Man, like you must be you know, like a high-speed guy if they jerk you off out of the civilian world last week and you're already here in Kuwait, and you're like, What do you do, man? And he then he looks up and he goes, uh, I'm a mortician. The first Marine Division sent me here to set up this giant morgue in the green zone in Baghdad. And we're like, Jesus Christ, dude, you're the Grim Reaper, you know, and that's why he didn't want to look everybody in the face because he didn't want to he didn't want to reckon anybody recognize anybody later, you know. And we were like, I get it while you're sitting by yourself, dude. Like, hey, the first ring division thinks he's like it's like a big board. He's like, Yeah, it's gonna be huge. Like, oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

That's awesome. That's gonna feel real good, right? Right before you get into L O D.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

They made plants. Oh Grim Reaper. Well, they were wrong though, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 21:17

Well, and I think that's uh but I think that is telling, and I don't remember who somebody decided it of that there that there must have been an anticipation of us just getting absolutely chewed up. I mean, not that we didn't, but that it was going to be much, much worse than than what we were able to fight back against.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

I think so. Or or they're just planning, but I mean, but like but it was such a contrast to the feel that we got before that, right? Because we I mean we thought we were going to have an eye and it was all this handing out soccer balls and all this stuff that everybody remembers. But that it wasn't, I don't remember it being like a giant because there wasn't, there wasn't a giant insurgency or thing going on then. There wasn't these casualties. So I don't that was what was such a contrast on on that deal. Like, okay. Well, you know, somebody's at least taken that there's a good chance it's it's gonna go the other way.

SPEAKER_01 22:13

That's a good one. So did you now I don't remember how did you you transitioned up to Ramadi and the convoy, correct? Yeah. Do you remember who you were with?

SPEAKER_00 22:28

Once I can't remember, was it with the company? Uh and like I say, I don't know what the two big convoys I want to say. I feel like the first one got stopped and we ended up catching up with them. Um and then there's been talk about these other people. The only way that I know of, and I uh all this is by record, the only way I know of anybody else from the battalion or the company for sure got up there without driving in that convoy was like the advanced party flew up. Yeah, I don't think I don't remember there being a bunch of other people above and beyond the advanced party flying at all.

Mapping The City By Night

SPEAKER_01 23:02

I thought we all took the convoy, but there I I know that there was 81s that came up in a in a like a on a uh I think it was Helos, but yeah, it nevertheless that that they that they that they were brought up after the convoy um in a different like in a different phase, but it wasn't super long afterwards, but but it and it makes sense partially because we wouldn't have had the room on this like our vehicles. I mean, I I look like Sanford and Sons with uh how full the back of my high back was. And so there wouldn't have been any room for anybody. But with 81s having the bodies that we did, like where would they have gone?

SPEAKER_00 23:40

Yeah, I think that I think that was it when it yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:46

Yeah, that was uh March 6th-ish when we I mean, I think the first convoy was golf company and weapons company mixed, and then some of headquarters element, and we all kind of went in that big giant train.

SPEAKER_00 23:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:58

I know when we got there, did you get any real handoff from the unit that we relieved, or was it just like this is it, here's a map, and then they walked out.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Pretty much is what I remember. I mean, it'd be like I think we're like uh, you know, put the flag jacket on, like, let's go look at it. They're like, No, no, no. They just sat there in the COC and be like, you go out that way, that's this, and there's a moss there, and then you turn it around and come back.

SPEAKER_03 24:22

Uh absolutely I didn't again, I didn't talk to you much directly, but I I talked to JD quite a lot, and he he he had the same impression. He came away shaking his head every time he was like, I don't I don't know anything. Here's here's a map. Let's go. I mean, we'll drive around and figure things out. That was it.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

A lot of it had to do with the fact that we already knew going in we were gonna do like marine shit, right? Like we were gonna do patrols. Um and like the army did none of that, they had done none of that, so they didn't have any of that information to try to give you all the information you would try to get, like, hey, turn over the AO, like can you can you make it down this street? Can you go around this corner, all that shit? And they're like, I don't know. Uh but we knew going in that hey, we're gonna do that, probably. So that's what the information we were looking for. So we were just kind of dumbstruck that they didn't have any of that information.

SPEAKER_01 25:17

Uh so that that that piece of information makes me ask. So if our uh directive was to organize the way that we did, especially for weapons company, and then as you said, do our marine shit of how how we own the city, from from my understanding, we were under the brigade, not not necessarily listening to Blue Diamond, but was that a directive that the brigade was asking us to do? Or was that or was Colonel Kennedy given kind of the ominous dominance of like here's your here's your AO, don't let stuff pop off, go with God, and kind of to get to decide how we wanted to do it. As I mean, as you read.

Early Raids And The Farhan Brothers

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We were definitely under exact command of uh big red one, right? Uh, but you know, uh uh being a marine the only Marine Battalion attached to that army unit, there's no way that the gener the General Mattis and all that was gonna was all in the mix with with it, you know, because that was a Marine Battalion, uh with the army. And of course, and of course, Colonel Kennedy had a good relationship with him, you know. So there but but basically my understanding was that you know, yeah, that's your AO, you're supposed to make it work. What's your plan? Execute it. Um you know, and so I think early on that was mostly the tasking, right? Most of the patrols and stuff was not so much for like fine IDs, it was like, hey, we need to like map out this whole place. Oh yeah, get every and get every platoon knowing like comfortable on like how to get around the city, knowing where to go so they wouldn't get jammed up, knowing how how they could get to wherever they needed to get to if called to that place. So that was that that that tempo of running patrols and and ops both day and night was really initially just tried to like gather and and each one of the platoons did a fabulous job of that, having to work through themselves, like hey, because you only you only had you're by yourself, you had your you're oh yeah, navigating, you were doing all that stuff, and you had your map. There's no one to tell you about that more than anybody.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

I Gunny Cook had me as his lead. I mean, we were first truck, and I was his driver, and 90% of that is he said to me, he's like, You don't get lost, you know. You know, you guys I need you to be, you know, you have a pretty good sense of direction. You look at the map, and this is where we're gonna try and go. You know, he was then on the map, but uh we didn't know where anything was.

SPEAKER_03 27:55

So yeah, I think our first week we were nights, if I remember correctly, and I remember our first missions with the CO and you both uh were going out at night, and we would just drive we called them sightseeing missions. We would literally go out and then just get out of the trucks and start walking around and like looking at stuff. And which looking back is a little bit crazy, yeah. But it it worked. We knew I mean we knew what everything looked like, we knew what was normal and abnormal, which was the goal.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah, yeah. Which it would serve us in the whole battalion very well later. You know, you'll be all each platoon being that efficient on it.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Do you remember? Uh do any of those early any of the early missions stick out to you? Um and uh or do you any of the early jumping in with the different platoons? Anything stick out to you? Uh I won't make you say if you had a favorite or not, but that early early was just ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 29:01

Remember the curfews and stuff, and just be cows in the road, just run around and just like run some guy come home and ask through, and you run them off the road, and they're just drug driving with bottles of booze everywhere. And like, get out of here. Like, like, what are we even doing out here?

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Uh more than once a guy told me he was going out for cigarettes, and I was like, Well, I I understand that.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Yeah, go ahead. Uh yeah, and then but the rest of it was mostly I just remembered the just the ghost, you know, with the those early days of the IEDs and all that. And uh before before you could just all right, screw it, we're just gonna shoot this thing and get the hell out of here. Uh, you know, everybody remembers all those hours of sitting around waiting for EOD to do the stuff and all the all the protocols they had in the in those real early stages uh of it. Uh and I just remember being so frustrated because there was never, you know, it was ghosts, there's never everybody to shoot, just kept getting blown up. Right. Everybody get everybody does all their shit, gets out, dismounts, ready to ready to do it, and there's just no targets, there's nothing. Just day on, day on, uh day after day. Um that's what made in and later on. That's the other thing I think everybody I'm so proud of how everybody did talked about some, not enough, but all those raids, whatever ended up being 44, 45.

SPEAKER_01 30:22

Yeah, uh it was a long citation. My citation said I the the citation that I got for my uh award said that I went on 68 rates. There you go.

SPEAKER_00 30:33

So but that was but I was also because you pop you hopped back and forth on the breach teams and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Yeah, I got pulled over into like some of the golf company ones too.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

So um, but but think how many ops that is in it to you know, generally speaking, successful on every single one of them, uh despite all the obstacles. Um it's not like it had the same we talked about before, you got this you got the rotating platoons. It's not like you have the same units doing the same things every time over and over again, and they were just like set aside and babied and like you know, you're the raid force and you get to do that. You know, it was just whoever was like night taskable, uh night QRF.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Uh and of course, the genius of that though is that then we were sharing information back and forth. You know, just you know, it wasn't just this is how Sledgehammer does it. We were, you know, there was information flowing back and forth, like, or we're gonna do it a little bit differently.

SPEAKER_00 31:28

Right. Which which was crucial, I thought.

SPEAKER_01 31:31

100%.

April 6 Ambush: COC And Chaos

SPEAKER_00 31:34

Um probably, you know, that and then and then uh of course Morris and then the big raid on the Far Hung brothers that night of the fifth. Uh uh, and then kicking off uh in the morning. And the the Far Hung guys felt good about that. That that was the first one I ever remember. You talk about information flowing down. That was the first raid I ever remember where they where the the the suits came with pictures of those dudes that that you could actually like it was actually a picture of them, you know, not so crazy super grainy, like it was a pretty decent shot of like these are definitely the guys, this is what they look like. And and uh I and I believe that and they were like these guys are the ones that are planning this big shit that's fixing to go down. That's what they told us. And we're like, well, hell yeah, let's do that. And and I I remember that they didn't, they were like, we don't have time to spin up uh no, we think these guys are in this these one of these two houses, and we don't have time right now to spin up a delta team or seals or whoever they're gonna do it. Can we go get them? Yeah, we can go get them, we're doing it anyway. Yeah, uh and that was a great deal. And who else was out with that? It wasn't whiskey one, it was Crawford and two.

SPEAKER_03 32:57

Uh map one, as far as I know, was the only one. Wasn't two.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

Who did the cordon? Must have been somebody else.

SPEAKER_03 33:04

I have no idea. Yeah, I I assume it was one of the 81 Splatoons, but it was not uh because map three was still in house and Rainmaker was still in house. I think, and two didn't go out. I think it might have been just map one by themselves, or maybe they were supplemented with a line unit, but it wasn't.

SPEAKER_00 33:18

Maybe, maybe, not maybe. We hit two houses in the one, but we blew off the wrong door, somebody's house, it was totally the wrong house. And then it went to the next door.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:27

And then and then Crawford and his guys hit the house across the street, was the other target, and there was like 12 women in there. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Okay, so I think now that you're telling the story a little bit more, I think I think this is the one that I one of the ones that I got pulled out for.

SPEAKER_00 33:43

And I was leaving Ford Zone Lady's door.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Yeah, I remember no, well, I was, yeah, it was I think it was I I don't know for sure, but I think it was like I feel like it's it was a golf. And I remember because I was part of the element and they got up there and I was watching them put the C4 in there and they put it in there. They didn't, they put it on the center of it, and so it just blasted it in, and the door didn't come off, and so then they had to blast. And it was such a that was a big mess.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Anyway, it turned out it was even it was the wrong house altogether. It was supposed to be the next one.

SPEAKER_01 34:14

That's right. Uh yeah, I think it was golf company if I remember correctly, because that was one where I got pulled out.

SPEAKER_00 34:21

Might have been. Um and I don't I don't know why. You know, they called it the next house and they and they and they they kicked the door in on that and cleared that, and that's where uh that's where the Falhar brothers and all the dudes were. There was some kind of tunnel that they dug underneath between the two houses and left all the women in the first one and tried to escape over there. Uh and but you know, that was the only ones you have like a solid picture. Like this is the guys. I don't remember why I think they weren't even ready at I don't remember why they didn't have us take them straight to the Shark Tank or Junction City over there because we ended up taking them back to our hooch at Hurricane Point that night for a couple hours for some reason.

SPEAKER_03 35:03

I I I don't remember, but I know starting around the Battle of Ramadi, we had those Marines from the Het teams that had set up in like the motor T hooch, and they they were like doing like a first interview with all these with a lot of the people that we had brought in. It was weird, and then it never happened. Yeah, yeah, and it never happened again. That was it. They did it the one time, they never did it again.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

Yeah, yeah. Maybe that made it-I I was with them, I ended up taking them back to eventually Junction City that morning, the the far harm, the detainees, uh, you know, 8 30 or something, and I had just gotten back and just laid down whenever you know the radio started going off with all the the ambushes that morning, and everybody took off out the door on the sixth.

SPEAKER_03 35:53

Now, I know you weren't with us with map two. Uh, where did you end up on the sixth, or were you running our COC?

SPEAKER_00 36:01

I was in the COC until the evening. I went out late in the day on the sixth, basically after everything had kind of calmed down and met linked up with uh Colonel uh Captain Weiler and uh the folks at that at the main house where they had all the shit, you know, those guys on the roof doing all that. Okay, everything everything had uh died down by the time I got out in the city that night.

PsyOps, Route Nova, And The Trap

SPEAKER_03 36:25

That'd been Map 2 and Rainmaker out there in the north of the Sophia district. Okay, that makes sense. Right. So, what I remember of you that uh around that day, and I can't remember if it was the sixth or the seventh, I remember you had this leather chest holster like a cowboy, and I was super jealous. That's what I remember. Where did you get that holster? Because nobody else had one of those.

SPEAKER_00 36:45

I bought I bought it, I bought it at some flea market like in uh California somewhere. That's awesome. I got again later got stolen out of out of my truck in Long Beach about two years ago. I was so pissed. That's bullshit. That's about the only thing I'd like to have. The thing was fun, yeah. Uh but uh yeah, stolen. No, it's always the good shit that gets stolen, you know? Yeah, yeah. Uh but uh yeah, so not much on the sixth, and then uh I was out all day mostly with uh with map three on the seventh.

SPEAKER_03 37:23

Um anything stand out for you from the seventh? Just curious from your perspective, especially, because you were probably thinking more of like, where is everybody?

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Uh yeah, I mean uh we were up all night in the COC, and then that's when it came in like late or late, late in the night, early in the morning, that uh that directed to do the the psyops mission in the morning. So they wanted two army trucks that had those speakers on it, and they had this message like, you know, we we are your friends, we're not here to fight you, whatever it was. Pamphlets they wanted. Uh yeah, that was crazy. I remember being over the CEO with the with the with the three all all that morning arguing about that because it came down. We're like definitely gonna get I knew exactly who they're gonna task with it, and I knew exactly who's gonna be, it was gonna be, you know, third platoon because they were on that morning. It's like definitely gonna be us that gets it. And uh I remember calling over there to like the army trying to get understanding like what the hell are you talking about? Like a PsyOps truck, and like what do you want to do? And that's when they're like, Oh yeah, we got these pamphlets and then we got these big speakers, like what do you have? Duncan, they're like, No, we don't have any guns, but we got these big speakers, and like, and I'm like, Well, how's that working? They're like, Oh, we gotta drive like at least under 10 miles an hour to get the you know, to get the message out. And I was like, man. You know, and after and and map three had been all that fighting the day before, they were in the probably the th the thickest of it, uh arguably. Yep. Um with Condi shot and everybody like they knew more than anybody what the city was about. Um and obviously speed was such a thing, like that's the that's the last thing anybody, any of us wanted to do was just bebop down the you know. Uh so and there was and it turned out we argued with it, and they told you know, they shut the fuck up, say II lieutenant. Turned out that that mission had come directly from like General Mattis, so it's like endorsed no matter what. So uh I didn't have the heart to tell them just to go do it, so I was like, well, let's go. And to take a little heat off them higher, you know, and like Gunny Gunny Cutcher was so good at fighting that platoon, but you shouldn't have to deal with it, it had so much brass like breathing down the neck of that op one updates every two seconds, and how's it going? Uh sure they were all you know, all the way up a blue diamond, were sitting back in a little CLC seeing how it went for the opening of the day.

SPEAKER_03 39:51

Um I I have not talked to anybody from map three about that mission. Uh every platoon has its own character. I love map three, they're uh a little gangster as far as uh just in general. They that's a tough group of dudes. I'm trying to imagine them the day prior laying down so much hate and then going to the marketplace and handing out flyers and trying to say, sorry, we actually mean we love you.

QRF To Golf: Breaking The Siege

SPEAKER_00 40:20

That's a ridiculous ask. Yeah. And we got to we got through the market, and of course, you get the stairs, but the the the the hate glares from that day was like above and beyond anything, as you can imagine, you know, and they're ripping those flyers up. Yeah, and we got to the we got to the end of Route Michigan, and I was like, dude, I called back, like we can't go back through there, you know. Let's go around, which Route Nova, which is a great, great, great safe way to go back, right? But at the end, if at the end of that, before we made the turn, here come a big like uh Haji like funeral procession procession, you know, carrying a casket in the streets with all these dudes. So we stopped, had a big, you know, Mexico stare down with that, let them pass through. Like, man, obviously they're not just gonna get over this right now. Um and then we wheeled back around uh Route Nova and then somewhere past past gypsum, somewhere on the you know, I don't know, 9-0 Easting or something. That's what that's when the ambush hit off with the uh I talked to Kelly and everybody about the the guys in the palm trees up in the things, kicked off of the you know the RPG that uh missed, thank God. You know that the fact that those opening salvos, the RPGs, largely we escaped those in multiple did uh you know, think how much of a difference that would have made on most of those engagements if it would have been able to really squack the first vehicles, and or the duds or the training rounds too.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

I mean, just just incredibly lucky.

SPEAKER_00 41:58

Yep, yeah, yeah. But Matt 3 was gangster. I mean, those guys uh those guys in the trees, and I hear Kelly talking about it. Can you imagine? They probably thought it was such a good idea whenever they were doing like sand table drop, like oh we got him. Yeah, the guy's like, I'm gonna nail that first vehicle with uh RPG, and then you're gonna be up there just forge a turnaround. But it did felt weird because the rounds were coming like straight down. Yeah, it hit, we all jumped out, and we're hammering, and like get rounds coming straight down at you. And we're like, how is that possible? Look up, and then Kelly got the. I don't know if he had to get the Martin Team all the way off the cradle or not to get it that high, but close.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Uh, and he started popping them. There was three of them up there that I remember. And they all fell like 30 feet. One of them reached for his rifle and we took care of him, and then me and Gunny Crutcher got the other two and like drug them across the road. We had P.O. uh POWs or EPWs, whatever you call them. Yeah. But then but then the the the the map three just started hammering with the with the heavy guns, and then the back half of the column, Sergeant Williams, all those guys just no, of course that's when Cummins got hit in the way back, but they just started firing moving across down from Route Nova, uh with with all the with the with the gun trucks laying down suppressive fire. It was one of the most beautiful things I've ever seen. I mean, they did they just took it all the way through there to the houses and just and just uh destroyed those guys. You know. And then of course Cummins caught one on the way back.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

Um fortunately didn't slow him slow him down too much. He wasn't gone very long.

SPEAKER_00 43:42

Caught his cheese, caught his cheese, yeah. I think the most frustrating about that thing is I remember is that you know how uh out in the muddy where the section the city was so big, so all that shit happened. Cummins gets uh he's bleeding, he's bleeding bad, and we take off to try to to evac him, and you get you get like a mile down the road, and now all of a sudden you're just like in a in uh Thursday morning traffic jam in the city. That these people had no idea that there was these giant engagements going on, and they're just commuting. Uh, you know, and we got a bleeding brain in the back, so we're a little pissed uh you know, to start knocking cars off the road, you know, to get through it. That that was that's just always struck me as kind of surreal that you know, in that kind of it's not like the whole that day. That morning, everything wasn't the just empty hellscape that it would be later in the day. It was just you get to a different part of the city and they're just oblivious to what's going on. You know, I guess it'd be like in New York where you're like getting a big gunfight in Queens and then get down to Manhattan. Everybody's like, What are you talking about? Yeah, yeah, that's a great analogy. Uh but uh we got him back, and then uh we went out with them as a QRF to get golf company late in the day. The golf company had been out fighting for hours.

unknown 45:00

Yep.

Aftermath, County Fair, And Raids

SPEAKER_00 45:01

And they were low on ammunition, and they they were holed up at the south end of easy street at that uh power station. Had like the fence around it. Yep, yep. And then there was a there was a squad from Fox. Uh Lieutenant Denman was out on patrol out there and been stuck out there and was separated from them uh four or five blocks up Easy Street towards Michigan. That uh that golf company had been uh unable to like break out of there and fight. So remember we just came storming in there and started uh and linked up with Captain Bronzi and them and and uh they've been out there a long time and they were happy to see us when that mark mark that teams everything started going. Uh that was a cool thing. The Captain Bronzi was was our uh us lieutenant supposed our like machine gun instructor at the basic school in Kwaniko, so like all moto jumping up on tables, doing all the machine gun classes and all that shit. So the to come in there and he was like, Oh, then we pulled it because they're like, Where are you taking fire from? He's like, We're surrounded. Uh so we're like, we're coming in from the south, just don't shoot us. And we rolled in, and then of course he was surrounded. And then uh when all the boys started hammering with the 50s and Mark 19s, he just like that's the greatest sound I've ever heard. He was so happy. He was so happy. Uh, but we we broke we broke they broke out to the south. We broke we moved up north and uh had Lieutenant Demon popped uh yellow smoke, and we found him on the corner and linked up, and they were pretty bad off with the jumped out and was like, who are you taking fire from me? He's like, it's it's a sniper taking headshots, and he's already bleeding out of his right eye. And then about that time, snap, here comes sniper rounds into the wall. It's a who whoever whoever's on the 50 in the truck right up there saw the muzzle blast and put like a can into him, and we never heard the we never heard from that guy again. Uh, and then we just had to shoot our way block to block all the way back to combat outpost. Uh that was when it looked like a doom movie or something. You know, everybody was clearly off the streets by then and it was just uh uh uh running around everywhere. Uh on the 7th. Back to combat outposts. And then you started to take in all the other stuff. I think I think uh Rainmaker was out there, Tennant Dobbs truck was out there, that was the day they got shot up to go look at that thing, and I don't know how I don't know how they survived that at all.

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Um and then I don't remember how we got back or when we got back to Hurricane Point late that night, but it seemed like the seventh was a longer like duration day, at least as far as I can remember, because it was all day, it was whatever it was, 12, 14 hours. It seemed like all day, and the sixth was like intense, but not all day. Where the seventh was definitely all day, and then if I remember correctly, we did Operation County Fair the next day. That sound right on the eighth?

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Yep, yep. I don't remember that being much of nothing.

SPEAKER_03 48:07

There was nothing, that's what I remember. I remember finding finding a couple field hospitals and then nothing else. That was all that was it.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

I think that I think they were pretty broken by then, you know. Um the steam was out, and then uh and then of course the tenth. That was uh by my recollection, that was the battalion, it was 14 supposed to be simultaneous raids. And of course, weapons we had we had uh three or four or five of them. Um I was with I don't know, I was with whoever we were with, and we we had tons of tons of guys in the house we were in, and it was the one where we had that fish hook lake was behind it. We started taking fire from there, we turned around, and we uh then the hump one of the humbies got stuck in the mud, blew the tire. Oh, that sounds like map three, if I was guessing across that that swampy field in the middle of Sophia there.

SPEAKER_03 49:07

Yeah, that sounds like map three because the story I remember it was it was Silton that got the uh vehicle stuck somewhere, I think.

SPEAKER_00 49:15

I think so.

SPEAKER_03 49:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Uh and then we finally pulled that out. Put a bunch of detainees in a I don't know, you know how many how many detainees can you fit in a broken hump piece? Yeah, one more at least. But uh uh yeah, but that was I think everybody was kind of fighting on their own little pockets there. Where did we set up the 81s? Do you remember? So we fired a couple of 81s, we fired a loom at dawn from a couple days.

Mortars, Friendly Fire Scare, Lessons

SPEAKER_01 49:47

They um so maybe some HE. So they they had we had a small uh like two or three mortars set up at Hurricane Point, like across from the COC, kind of in where those trees were. Yeah but then but then they had set up like one or two outer uh combat outposts. And and then and so they they you guys decided to fire it off from there. Uh I don't know exactly what happened, but that's when we almost had uh uh we were providing an outer cordon and those were danger close because they spun the because they spun the data up wrong. And uh I I have a very specific memory of curling up into a very small ball behind a berm, being like, God damn it, I'm the FTC teeth. I'm gonna get killed by friendly mortar fire. Uh oh. Oh well. Uh I'm still bullshit that I never got to fire uh any rounds in anger, but that's all right.

SPEAKER_03 50:51

Um do other things in anger, but so I remember catching a few uh intel briefs and stuff where you where I was invited along for whatever reason, uh with uh Major Harrell and I think you were there, uh, all post uh Battle of Ramadi and getting some after actions reports and sort of casualty reports and all that kind of stuff. Anything stand out to you that you can remember after those meetings of anything that was like actually interesting? Because uh I don't remember anything being surprising, I just remember the numbers being thrown back and forth of nobody really knew how many people we were fighting and how many were killed. It was like people were just making up estimates at the time.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

Yeah, like after action before the before the battle there.

SPEAKER_03 51:45

Yeah, just curious if you're if anything stood out that was same thing.

SPEAKER_00 51:50

But but I think all of us out there could kind of see like how could you possibly count or you know, so I was always skeptical of anybody throwing any numbers, like uh, how did you you know, like you could ask anybody from you know the PFCs to all the vehicle commanders to the squad leaders to the platoon, like who who could who could honestly say it was out there, like how could you actually put a number or uh or some details on that? Um I I don't remember anything definitive. I I remember getting I remember getting intel that was pretty much confirming that there had been a large influx of fighters that had flooded into the city right previous to that. Some of it was trying to escape the co the cordon and Fallujah, and in addition to also like, hey, they're gonna try to make a push to re to recapture Ramadi. So there was other people specifically coming to fight there for that jihad. And I I feel like that was obviously correct. I think there's definitely more bad guys there that time than there was two weeks before or a week before or something. Um and then the fact that obviously, you know, there's a bunch of ops we've been on, or you talked about that you know because of the Islamic rules or customs or whatever, they were so they were so they were grabbing all these bodies off the streets, and of course, anybody, it wasn't just the fighters that would do that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 53:21

Uh just anybody in the neighborhood would grab and and hide the bodies and all that kind of stuff. So obviously, I think I think that made it even more difficult to ascertain what kind of numbers you're up against, or what kind of what what it what uh actual some like ratios were.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

Um I remember a couple of times being creepy, you know, you drop the person and then you look a different direction, and then you look back and they're just minutes and bloody shoe. Minutes later there'd be a shoe there.

SPEAKER_03 53:54

Yeah, always shoes. There's nothing else.

SPEAKER_00 53:56

Yeah, yeah, like magical. Like, how is that possible? Yeah, even if it wanted to, you know. Uh so um, yeah, that's that's all I can. Uh I I don't remember getting much definitive information at all in any of those briefs. Uh I remember being pretty skeptical of uh of any kind of hard numbers that anybody would really put on anything. Right.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

So I remember there being uh a palpable shift sort of after April, uh, and it came probably June, maybe July, where the people that we were getting into gunfights with were a different caliber. It was a more lethal version of attack. The technology seemed to be increased on the IEDs, and the the guns that were used against us were a little bit more accurate, it's a little less of the spray and pray and run away. Uh it seemed like it shifted from an organic movement or at least local fighters to maybe something more organized like Al-Qaeda or whatever. Whatever. I know I we heard lots and lots of different uh things. Those goddamn chechkins. Anything anything stand out to you?

SPEAKER_00 55:11

Uh I I I agree with that assessment. I mean, I think uh I think it definitely did change then. I th I think I think it kind of woke them up and angered them after that. So that they really did put more distinct, you know, military operations going on in it, uh, as evidenced by the things you talked about, you know.

SPEAKER_03 55:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

Being better at it and more lethal at it and more professional at it, I think for sure. Uh yeah. I think I think they kind of got embarrassed by that. I think and and fired up that they lost so many guys and stuff. So I think they I think it rallied some another batch of more professional jihadists, and I probably everybody offered up a lot more weapons for their disposal, you know, uh after that goes down. Um but they definitely got more sophisticated, I think, and more lethal uh in those months after that.

SPEAKER_01 56:10

Um I have a I have a hard time remembering one. Go ahead. Sorry.

Midyear Shift To A Deadlier Enemy

SPEAKER_00 56:15

No, I was just saying I I think we did too. I think uh some people touched on it, but that's another point of that of addition to like just the whole Mac transition, but that that heavy that the heavy weapons swap that we did after April. Uh yeah. And you know, map one, two, three, not not such a big fan. Sledgehammer, uh Rainmaker, probably so. Uh yeah, we were appreciative. Uh but that that was a big decision and it was hard for everybody. I knew that was gonna uh you know be controversial. I mean, uh but uh every platoon commander and platoon sergeant and squad they they they everybody voiced their opinion on that. I knew how it was gonna be taking taking heavy machine guns from a from a marina platoon, how that was gonna make them feel. Uh but that's one of the things that struck me as amazing that you know, I just like I we I remember sitting, we all had them sit down with the platoon commanders for sure. I think platoon sergeants and all knew all just like at the table in the COC is like, hey, this is this is what we've kind of learned from this big April fighting that you know you got you got Sledgehammer and Raymaker out there with like peace shooters, saws, and like seriously undergunned, and and we saw how big of a difference those heavy weapons made in those days fighting, you know, undeniably. Um and then it's not like we were trying to ship them off to you know, headquarters company or something. We're like, no, it's look, it's going to right there, it's going to Muser and South Sergeant Cook and Ray, and and for everybody to swallow it, and I realize it didn't go as for everyone to swallow that and then like go teach Marines from the other battalion how to use or from the other platoons how to use those. Uh was amazing to me. And in the heart of that, I mean I was like, I was just dreading like I gotta go tell this kid that like he used to have he used to have a toe or a Martin IT and now he's got a saw. And you know, you're gonna have to give that to a whole different platoon. Uh so that I would that always struck me as just unbelievable. Uh you know, love of the team and the guys and and and being able to overcome that. Uh and I think it did work out better. I mean, you f I I think I think they're more, I think all the platoons made all the platoons more effective. Uh having sledgehammer and and then uh Raymaker had those other assets for the rest of the deployment. Um you know.

SPEAKER_01 58:42

I was very aware of it coming over and being very appreciative, so 20 years later I appreciated.

SPEAKER_03 58:49

At the time I was angry.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

Yeah. Uh trust me, all the leadership from the platoons pitched a fucking fit. You know, as they should, you know. I didn't I didn't expect anything, anything less than that. Uh but in the end, we're like, hey, looking across at the at the guys next to them in the same company, like, okay, you know, we gotta do something.

Rearming Heavy Weapons Across Platoons

SPEAKER_01 59:17

So that uh that makes me think, what's we had a I don't know how rare or unique or if this ever you know, like how often this even happens, but you know, the fact that we had two of our plato platoons both have uh staff NCOs as commanders. Um what was that a big deal? Was that a big decision? Um how like what what can you tell? Because I was very aware of it, you know, with with Benny Cook and him being absolutely amazing. I thought he did a phenomenal job at it. Um but uh but that's got to be kind of rare, um other than you know, other than maybe losing the commander in you know, due to death in the middle of a fight, then having them uh assume that role. But we went in there with the decision. Uh can you uh what kind of thought process, what kind of discussions were were made? And was there any ripple effects outside of the battalion?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:21

I don't know about ripple effects. I mean uh there definitely there definitely was some. Uh I think uh it definitely was rare, uh in any circumstance, but much less if you're gonna transition to uh uh the Mac concept as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:35

And uh I remember the only the only reason we were able to do that is because I think we had we just had faith in how good those how how good those guys were, very capable, you know. There's never a question about it. Seth Sogan Cook and Crutcher were like these guys can do it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

You know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:51

Uh never was a doubt uh in our mind that they can do it. Uh and we did you you know that normally in any kind of TO that wouldn't be the case as far as like just straight staffing-wise. Uh that's a testament to them making it work. And I think if it was other people probably would not have been that comfortable doing it that way, you know. I would say the same thing about if it was another lieutenant that was like maybe not up to speed or something, you know. We needed every maneuver unit to be able to to to hold their own and be ferocious and and and work independently. You know, that's what that's part of what made the whole thing work. Uh you know, and and then having them be as great as they were, just just just you know, prove the plan right, I thought. And like, here we go. Um But I don't know if that's I'm sure I'm sure that other battalions have had to deal with that just because there's not enough, you know, like to get again, that's not the that's not the that's not the Marine Corps TO or staffing levels, whatever it is, right for that, for that kind of operation. So you're never gonna have enough officers to cover those, I don't think. Unless you maybe there's some instance in the future that they did. Uh I mean it would have been a great billet. Like every every lieutenant wants to be a weapons company platoon commander. It's like the best job in the battalion, you know, at the at a lieutenant level. So uh, but we just never had a doubt that that those guys were just hell on wheels leading their platoon. So like let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

That's also funny. I didn't I didn't know it was a coveted position. Uh I always enjoyed my platoon commanders, but I didn't know it was something that uh would be like the best job in the battalion. That's cool, actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:48

I think so.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:49

Nice. I mean, yeah, you might be a little biased, but that's uh that's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

Well, and it I guess it also kind of begs the question like how much how siloed did you guys feel um as far as okay, we're Ramadi, we're we're whooping it on here, and like getting some feedback for how things were going and you know, Moselle and uh Fallujah and Tit and stuff like that.

Staff NCOs Commanding Platoons

SPEAKER_00 1:03:14

Did you uh yeah me and at my level, no, we weren't getting shit. That was that was the box, you know. Okay, we had we had all we got all we had all we could handle uh in the city, and then and then and then it was basically like listen, there was no there I never remember it being even a question of like are we gonna do something else, are they gonna bring another battalion in, or like that was just like not gonna happen. So we're like we got we got our AO, and whatever else happens uh happens, and of course, like the the Fallujah thing was obviously it's been talked about a lot, but that was a completely different thing over there, you know. Right, just like different, yeah, just massive. They weren't even the city, they were just in these giant bases around it forever waiting, waiting to get the call and then getting pulled back and all that until they finally later did it. So that was really just a stalemate over there. And uh, I don't really remember any discussions on and then and then of course the whole south side of the river and then being attached to the army and stuff. We didn't we didn't have good communication with them, didn't get any information. I think if that would have been if that would have been a marine division we were with, I think it would have been a lot more cross communication because probably could have known some guys over there and talked about it and stuff, but sure. Uh I remember our cops. Do you remember communicating with the army about anything?

SPEAKER_03 1:04:36

I never remember getting any information uh at all from uh from an army unit. And I I mean uh like was just saying it. I remember even just trying to talk to them on the radio was impossible. Like they just they just didn't answer. That was it. It would it yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:51

Well, if I remember correctly, the crypto was different.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:55

Which was I if if I remember correctly, I think they almost had they had uh a different crypto load um too, and so like we couldn't communicate, like it wasn't possible to reach out to I think there's a lot of that too.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:10

I think there's a lot of that, but yeah, even at my level, I don't there was no cross-communication uh but with them at all, that I recall. So that left a big giant like information intel black hole, in my opinion. And we're like, all right, we'll just stay in our box and worry about what whatever comes into the to our little playground.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.