Constant Combat

The First Lioness - Ranie Ruthig (part 2 of 2)

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Part 2 with Ranie Ruthig, one of the original Lioness soldiers who was often attached to Weapons Company, to illustrate how early missions in Ramadi evolve from outreach to intel work and high-risk convoy life. We also get her blunt take on standards, unit culture, and why her view on women in combat is more complicated than people expect. 

• early “hearts and minds” runs to schools and neighborhoods 
• cache searches and a lizard scare 
• mission debriefs and why some unit partnerships stop 
• planning the glass factory visit to receive intel 
• CNN attention and the reality of women already in combat zones 
• barrier missions, wrecker work, and engineer solutions under fire 
• leaving active duty for family care plans and rebuilding life 
• training Marines later on and the long tail of wartime experience 
• her perspective on women in combat 



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SPEAKER_01

Okay. Yeah, because some of the first ones that I remember the Lioness is coming out on, I know were at least I have a memory of a of uh of I can't remember who it was now, but they they went out for uh to the to a school. We were dropping off some stuff and had come out for to talk to the kids or something. I can't remember exactly how it all worked out, but it was it was before everything kicked off. That was Nava.

SPEAKER_05

That would have been uh Nava and um Perry is who you would have gotten with. So that would have been the Nava Perry team, usually went to school. So little shot up, Mexican. That man, well, she was Puerto Rican, actually. Don't say she was Mexican. I know better. Sorry, whoever I said, I know better. Um so and she runs a mile a minute. She is as short as her mouth is long. I mean, sweet girl. Um, and then Perry, she was uh a taller blonde, but not taller than Shannon and I. So that would have been that would have been Nava and Perry that you should probably would have been that, or maybe Moreno. So it would have been uh uh no, she was Colombian.

SPEAKER_01

But it's that sounds vague. Again, it's you know, trying to pull up 20 years ago and and like I and and it wasn't like I was trying to make friends with anybody, it was just acknowledging that this was happening.

SPEAKER_05

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Um, and so you guys did a um, you did a I remember that you guys did like a school run for yeah, it it was uh I mean as Nylon did too. I mean, there that first part of when we came over and we were doing like Sasso, and we really believed that we were winning hearts and minds and stuff like that. That it was a lot of dropping off handing out handing out school uh soccer balls and getting generators to places and um things like that.

When The Street Suddenly Goes Quiet

SPEAKER_05

Um so that that that's my first that's I remember that because um we were out. I was out, but I was with one five those days because um I don't I and I only remember being out, nothing happened, but I remember that was one of those eerie days that everything got quiet because you know it was almost like they were testing things out because uh they could tell our vehicles and everything, you know, they got used to us and they knew how we operated. And it was one of the days um, because you had seven tons out. It was like one of your first time seven tons were out, if I remember right. Because the one thing I always remember when doing um missions is watching kids. And I remember the soccer balls. Because if I I don't know, remember if we were out with you guys or if I was with one five, but I remember being with one five for some odd reason. And I'll tell you only reason why I remember the I'll tell you my screaming like a girl story. Um and I think this all plays in. Um but I remember all of a sudden, you know, kids having soccer balls and wanting stuff, and all of a sudden the street went quiet and there was no more kids, and I'm like, ooh, fuck. You know, because once you're kids, you're like, uh, that this is a bad sign. But and the only reason I remembered that specific day, and that that it was Nava and I think it was Marino that was out with you, it wasn't Perry. Was um uh Shannon and I went out with uh 1.5 and um Colonel Cambry had a really cool driver, and I don't remember the gentleman's name, and I wish I do because he was super cool. The one thing new what no one knew about him, he spoke Arabic.

SPEAKER_04

He was a U.S.

SPEAKER_05

citizen. Um, he had immigrated and got his citizenship um and joined the army. He was why he joined the army was to get a citizenship. So I thought it was really kind of cool. I enjoyed talking to him, and um, usually Cambridge kept us with him if we went out. Uh, so I love talking to that guy, it was really fun. And we were on a um, they told us it was, you know, we always called it cash missions for cash and cacheting missions when we thought it was gonna be guns. You know, that was how kind of thought differentiated because I'm like, it's the same fucking thing, cash is a cash. And they're like, no, this is how we're gonna differentiate. But if it's gonna be cash and intel, it's going to be called a cash. If it's going to be guns and something else, we're gonna call it a cache. And so this was going to be a cache mini mission. So we're digging through shit, and we're on this little farm, and I'm like, and I am literally sitting here, and once again, the we're not having to guard the interpreter because we didn't have to take one out because we got specialists, whatever his name was. And um, so we're standing there, and we're standing in, I guess, their little by their little barn area, and I'm basically kicking her off, you know. I'm like, and all of a sudden, you know, the guys are going through everything, so that was pretty nice. I'm like, I'm getting my hands dirty. This is gross. And um, all the guys are digging everything through, and all of a sudden, I swear I saw black fingers coming up underneath that. I kicked it as hard as I can. I screamed with the girl, I brought my gun up. I'm like, you can't fucking die! Everybody's all up around me. It was lizards. I was really brave, and it was just big old black lizards coming up, but they all came out like a hand, and they're and then everybody laughed at me and made fun of me. I remember that mission. That was right about the same time, and that's why I couldn't go with the Marines is I was with uh one five.

SPEAKER_01

That's too funny.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. Pretty strong story there, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we they we've we've all had uh we've all had our fair share of uh embarrassing ourselves over there, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_05

So bad. They all laughed at me, and I'm like, and Shannon, you know, and you never wanted to do anything around Shannon because I swear that girl has a memory she will forget, and she oh don't worry, it's a lizard. I had lizards in my damn butt bunk, they bring them in. I'm like, you fuckers.

SPEAKER_03

So, as far as passing along all this stuff and this being sort of a new mission, did they ever bring you in for like a post op, we're gonna debrief everything and write this down and and talk about how good this is working or how bad it's working?

SPEAKER_05

Um, we every every mission we did, we did a back brief. We did a backwash every mission to see if this was still a sustainable thing, um, whether it was with 15, 116, or the Marines. We did a backwash every single time.

SPEAKER_04

Interesting.

SPEAKER_05

So that is why we ended up not doing a lot of missions with 116, because honestly, they were not very, they weren't nice. They were just, you know, it's like, um, I think that was a mission I ended up riding with bodies. I'm like, you know, can I get a truck that doesn't isn't full of dead bodies? I mean, you know, I can ride in some bad places. I've ridden with the dogs, I've ridden with the interpreters. Do I have to be riding in the morgue? Um, I'm what they're like, what? I'm like, yeah, they've made us ride with the dead bodies. And they're like, Yeah, maybe you guys shouldn't be going with them anymore. Like, yeah, I prefer not to. And they're like, Yeah, no.

Planning The Glass Factory Intel Meet

SPEAKER_01

That along the along the same lines of uh Nylon's question, did uh to take it to the next level, did did you get brought in to help with any of the pre-planning ever uh with going out and this is what we're gonna do and what we can help how we can help, or is it just more once you got out there, you just rolled with the punches?

SPEAKER_05

It was certain missions. So the one mission I remember um actively having active participation in. It was over. Do you guys remember the glass factory?

SPEAKER_03

Oh yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05

There was a scientist over there, there's a famous female scientist, and she got word out that she wanted to talk to somebody, but she couldn't talk to somebody. She had intel, she had, and this was right before everything went down. So a lot of the intel around April time frame, I think came from that same time. And um I'd been I'd been doing a lot of missions in and out and everything, and and I ended up going on that mission, and uh uh Captain Penry's like, all right, who do you think needs to go with you? She's like, you need to pick somebody, and she's like, you know, and while Shannon has her qualities, going in to go a more delicate mission would not be Shannon's high point. And that's when I look at Captain Henry, I said, Who's leading the charge on this? And she's like, Oh, actually, this is gonna be, I think it was Colonel Cambridge gonna be on that. And I said, So it wouldn't be outrageous for a captain lioness going in, would it? She's like, You wouldn't want me to do a lioness? I said, I think you should do a lioness mission. So it was pretty cool. So I gotta pick my lioness buddy that day, and I made it to be Captain Penry.

SPEAKER_04

Come with us. That's cool.

SPEAKER_05

And uh she said, you know what, I'm going to do it. She's like, you know, put you guys out there. No, she's gone out, she was going out on missions too. So it's not like she was she was not a commander to sit back and you know, do as I say, as I you know, eat my crumpet. She was out there with us, so she was a very cool commander. Um, so she went out with us, and uh we sat down with Colonel Cambry and her and I, and you know, the main leaders to how we were gonna go in. And it was um, we were talking to them because we were going to get we strung it to the male, whoever was in charge over there, that we were needing supplies for a military base. We were looking to get stuff that was how that was how we were gonna get into this factory. And uh, so they're like, all right, no, okay, you're gonna have to, you guys are gonna have to wear your hair looser, so it's very obvious, you know. So it's like at that time, I think by the time that we got done there, my hair had grown down. It was probably mid-back, so we kind of had to floof your hair, so it was kind of like old lady bun style, so it was like you know, down to your collar, but still up, and and Captain Pedro had a mess of red hair. So I mean, we had like these low weird buns, and it's like, man, one strong wind, my hair's out, you know, and you're like, you know, constantly messing with this. And they're like, you know, when you get in the buildings, if you feel comfortable enough, take your Kevlar's off, you know, walk around. He's like, Do you guys are you guys comfortable enough with walking around with somebody instead of each other? Because we'll try to separate you. He's you know, I'll take Colonel Cambria. I said, Yeah, but then I took the little interpreter guy. I'm like, Yeah, I'll take your driver. And he's like, Oh, oh, okay, if you're comfortable with them. He's like, Well, that actually does even better because if she comes up and talk to you, we'll have an interpreter with you, and nobody will under know that we have an interpreter. I said, Perfect. And so off we wandered. And um, you know, so we got some lowly funky, and we just wandered that glass site, like you know, we're we're taking in the sights while the big wigs, you know, are doing their meeting. And so she never did come up to me. She ended up going up to uh Captain Pendry and give him giving them their intel, which I'm really glad about because I, you know, I really didn't want to be here's all this intel. You know, so I was much happier that a you know, a captain got it than some little lowly six. So, but it was really cool that I gotta be part of that planning process of how are we gonna get the intel, how are we gonna get people, what moving parts were gonna go in there, you know, what's the plan. So so that was one, but like the uh now I do say I do remember going over into the Marines and being being brought in and saying, Hey, here's the night missions, this is what's gonna happen, this is where the lionesses are going to be, you know, because they would bring me in so I could tell the girls what was going on. So I do remember being that, but not so much that I got any say on what was going to happen.

SPEAKER_01

Sure, sure, but at least you're getting some briefing.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, you're riding with the dogs. I mean, you guys like to put the dogs, you guys are riding with the dogs. I'm like, all right, or doc. I really liked your guys' doc. That's when I found out you guys carry morphine on you. I'm like, are you kidding me? You guys get morphine. I met a cookie shit. Here's some outrin.

SPEAKER_01

That's too funny. Yeah, well, I guess I the uh I guess I never really thought that due to your mission, and especially when you were as of the lioness, you you would have probably gotten uh lumped in with the interpreters a lot then.

SPEAKER_05

A ton. We spent and they we ended up being more or less their personal guard a lot.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Especially, you know, when they got into areas that you know, off we go, we're going, you know. Um, not so much with you guys, but a lot with one five. Um we gotta go, we're gonna go chase these bad guys down. Keep an eye on that guy, you know, not so much because they couldn't carry weapons, sure. So, you know, we can't go after the firefight, so guard the guard the interpreter. It's like, so how's your day going? So we ended up meeting a lot of cool interpreters. I mean, that was that was cool. You know, what's your family like? Spent a lot of time in trucks with them, you know. Sure. Left it and the like I said, the dog handlers. We met some cool dog handlers, the medics rode with a lot of the medics. So, you know, it's kind of like you know, your support. That's where we ended up and with.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, our and we had a we had a rough go of uh our interpreters at the beginning. That was really rough, but then towards the uh towards the middle end there, we had a handful that were really solid.

SPEAKER_05

But you guys got I remember you guys got some trashy ones.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I remember that.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we had a couple we killed, we had a kill two of them.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, and asked, could we borrow interpreters? Just remember that because I remember being on one of the and I'm like, it was the one five interpreter. I'm like, what are you doing here? Like, I go where they didn't, and I'm like, Oh, you stand up, you're in the same uniform I'm at. That was um, we were watching the fall of Fallujah, you know, they're showing all the in the fall. I think it was a history channel in the fall of the Fallujah, the Marines are all down, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, here's an army uniform. Hey, I think that's me. Where we go, go back. You know, it was funny because you could spot, and they're like, Why is there? You know, I can't remember who's why are there why are there different uniforms? Those are army, those are marines. And I said, those are support staff with the Marines. And they're like, Really? Yeah, they're usually an interpreter. I said, or they borrowed somebody. I said, I said, watch, if they're female, they're lionesses. And like, really cool.

When Lioness Became National News

SPEAKER_01

And I'm like, Yeah, and I, you know, we we kind of jumped into this. Uh, that made me think that I don't we didn't really set set set this up very well in the very beginning, but um uh just just to state this now. I we you guys started the lioness program. And so like like the the unit the unit that you were a part of, like this this had not happened at all. Um and so you know that so so so I so late of late part of uh oh three, you you're you're a part of that first team that then set this the the the the wave that came that came later. And you guys got in a little bit of i I don't know, think you got in trouble, but I think your higher ups got in a little bit of trouble when they found out that uh because this wasn't completely sanctioned, uh, if I'm if I know the story correctly.

SPEAKER_05

So it was not, and Colonel Brinkley and Captain Cambry may or may not, they're like, Are you sending females into combat? And they're like, There are no females at we are not actively sending females into combat. You like that walk around? That pretty good because they were not, and they're like, they just happen to be attached to a unit that sees combat, they have to protect themselves, and they're like, Yeah, that came down big. And uh, we were on they were on CNN, it got back to CNN and everything with that. I mean, they're like, There are females in combat. We're like, oops. You know, I remember I remember calling back to my mom and she's like, Hey, Rami. And I'm like, hey mom, what's going on? You know, your two o'clock in the morning phone calls. She's like, um, I was watching the news and I went, No, yeah, yeah, what was on the news? They're saying women are in combat. I said, Well, mom, you know, if you think about it, since Molly Pitcher, ever there's been a woman in combat even back in 1776. She's like, Don't you back top me, girl. I'm like, Well, she's like, I said, Ma, you don't really want the answer to that. And she's like, God damn it. I told you to go over there and just dick shit. What are you doing? And I'm like, Well, she's like, You better come home in one piece with all your fingers and toes. I'm working on it, I'm working on it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, I mean, to be fair, if you're on a wrecker crew, I mean, there were several times that we got hit where we needed to bring a wrecker out, and that was not a non-active environment.

SPEAKER_03

No, the wrecker got hit on the way out.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah, our record got hit on the way out. Um, we had we actually circled it how many bullet holes we had. And of course, once again, we had hillbilly armor on that booger. You know, I sat there and said, Well, this is great. The windows are down, I'm gunning out of it. You know, so I got you know, the little patch of you know, where what they kept calling it, the meat patch that are the dog tag area that everyone got tattooed on. Yeah, that was our meat tags, yeah. Yeah, that was tagged up and and like my boot area. I'm like, I am a sitting duck out here, but it's cool. At least you know it's nice and cool up here. Yeah, we went on a lot. We ended up um, we had to go out on a couple, pick up a couple, and that was horrible because our wreckers do not have feet for your seven-ton. You know, they'll pick them up, but uh the army record, we don't have seven-ton attachments because you know that's not our fleet.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, so interesting. I do remember that. I remember them welding it, welding up and rigging up some kind of weird.

Wreckers Barriers And Dirty Night Work

SPEAKER_05

Oh my god. And we're there, we just looked at it and I'm like, and me and our me and my driver are looking at and like, well, what are we doing? And he's like, We doing some chain shit. And I'm like, all right, let's here we go on some backyards, bullshit happening here. You know, we got our stinger down, and we just just started wrapping chains for days. He's like, We're just gonna have to keep it going slow. And he's like, hope it holding. And we got back and uh we had a we had a kick-ass welder, and I remember him um taking and making some hillbilly feet just in case. We never did end up using them, and we left them for the next crew behind us, but we made hillbilly feet to uh match in. We use uh because we had a spare set of um five-ton feet that we may or may not have acquired from somewhere. But like, yeah, we're not doing this again. But yeah, we did a lot of missions with uh the wrecker that I'm like, God, I don't I can't believe we did that. Um, I don't remember if you guys were part of the big push. It was after the fall of Fallujah, and it was a big, huge mission, and we brought everything out to start putting barriers down everywhere. And that's um it's right after maybe it was right at the election time. So yeah, it was right around April time frame after that. And um we took anything with a crane out, and we put the Alaska barriers down, the Hesco bastings down, and I mean we were out every night for like three days with all of our 88s and everything just laying barriers. And I'm but I'm thinking you guys were out. I mean, that was another big joint mission, but it was not a mission with that you know it was combat related, it was more of a sustainment mission.

SPEAKER_01

I have memories of that. I think we were doing like I think we performed some outer court on stuff just to keep people pushed back while you were doing it.

SPEAKER_03

We basically shut down the marketplace during that time because the majority of the barriers they were putting up were at the government center. At least this is what I remember.

SPEAKER_05

Yep, the government center and the police department.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. Those barriers uh uh came in handy for Nylon and I later on.

SPEAKER_05

That's uh uh because it was I uh and the only reason I remember we end up talking about that mission is um we were talking to our uh our chief warrant officer, because I can't remember you guys call chiefs different things, so I always have to remember chief warrant officer for us. Um the other day, Shannon and I and um one of my old other, he was the 88 uh TC, and he's like, Hey, I found this picture. What were we doing? And I looked and it was all of us, everybody in maintenance. And we it was a big maintenance mission. And I'm like, what the hell would and I remember, and then they're like, All right, that was the barrier mission. And it's like, okay, and it was, I mean, and it ended up being it's like when all of maintenance went out. And I remember being out on that mission, and we're laying barriers out everywhere, and I'm like thinking, man. You could just cripple our battalion right now from maintenance if you took this area out because all of our maintenance is out here, you know, from our our our warrant officers out here, our BMO's out here, you know, I'm out here, our motor sergeant out here, and I'm like, and all of our little soldiers are out here. I'm like, you can crippled maintenance section right now. Because we're just laying bat barriers and then the uh we're laying fastings everywhere too, and just running dirt. I do remember it was just days, and god, it was dirty work.

SEALs CIA And Joint Coordination

SPEAKER_03

It ended up being important. I mean, the government center was attacked multiple times throughout the summer, and then later during the handoff in September. Yep. There were some special forces units that came up and rubbed up in our AO. Uh we had an ODA attachment that was north and then came into Ramadi a lot, and we had a SEAL unit. Did you ever end up getting attached to them for anything?

SPEAKER_05

Um, we did not, we did talk to them. We didn't know exactly what we uh we knew the seals. I mean, they're hard to miss.

SPEAKER_01

Um they they made sure that they introduced themselves.

SPEAKER_05

Yes, they do. With their beard and their stuff, and I'm thinking, yeah, that's the only reason you went as a seal. Um we had green berets, and there was more, there was CIA on the ground. Yes, yeah, yeah. We talked to the CIA. I remember having to uh talk to them about the missions. Um and I don't remember there was, and there was somebody it was we just got called that they were OGAs, other government agencies. And it's like, but yeah, I remember the CIA and I remember the SEALs. Yeah, the SEALs let they let everybody know. They went to the done talking with us and went over to the mess hall. We are SEALs.

SPEAKER_01

Well, some of the I uh some of the raids, uh some of the uh quartering kicks that we did uh when we were bringing the bringing you guys out uh was coordinations with special forces also. And so um yeah, there was some some interesting missions there.

SPEAKER_05

We uh we always saw more um after the army times and the marine times with the band of sisters, we saw more that started getting a little interested in us, and I think that's when that's when the word was getting back that we weren't supposed to be out there and everything else. And I don't, you know, and I remember I can't remember how many female Marines would get just pissed. Why are they using soldiers for this? This should be a Marine mission, blah blah blah. And it's like you guys a bunch of sissies. No, I did not say that, you know, because I knew the whole reason behind it. It truly is where you are and what you know your unit's willing to take the brunt for, you know, for sure.

SPEAKER_01

So once once that came out, did you did you I don't I guess I don't remember the lioness was coming out much in the summer. Did you did that just did the missions dry up then for you guys?

SPEAKER_05

Well, we went out um we probably weekly. We go out weekly, um, not so much uh with the Marines. We went a lot more with the 1.5. Um, so luckily it did dry up some. And I didn't have to do as many missions because then um we were on the records a lot. I mean, because then we were going to Anaconda, and that's when we got ambushed going to Anaconda, and we cleared out the road going there. And that was pretty cool though, because we took our I don't you guys don't know what it is, but it's a it's called an AVLB. So it's uh it's an old 60 tank, and instead of a gun on it, they put a bridge on it, right?

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Vehicle launching bridge, AVLB. Well, of course, we I we brought our bridges. I don't know. I don't know what the hell they thought we were crossing, but we brought it. But it was so bad because we used it to demolish Anaconda's route because it was so black all the time, and they said we gotta get rid of these pits. And so we took our our aces out, our armored camba earth movers, and we took those AVLBs out. And so, of course, the guys were buttoned down in the aces to fill in those tank holes. They got dug out instead of you know, instead of digging tank holes, those aces were filling them in, and those A VLBs were just using the big bridge feet, and they were just demolishing everything as they went along, just knocking everything in, which did suck coming back because then we had to replace that big ass foot. Sure. Not the maintenance, we're like, okay, it's cool seeing it. I'm like, yeah, and then afterwards, we're like, fuck. So we did a lot of those missions, I remember in the summer. I remember it picking it back up. It and once you guys got your feet wet, and you know, they realized that you know, basically the Ramadis and fluja, you know, calmed down, and they realized you know, you put you were worse than 82nd for controlling of the area. I think that's when it just kind of calmed down, and then it was just the you know, IDs that they blew everything up, and we did a lot of rec remissions then. I'm I remember being out on a lot of rec remissions then.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And then once once second ID came in, it all picked back up again. I'm like, oh Lord, here it goes again. You know, that's all they're doing, is you know, they were just testing the the new ones to see how far it was gonna go.

The Timeline From Kuwait To Handoff

SPEAKER_03

Right. So if you came in in October, then did you leave in October of 04?

SPEAKER_05

I so I was actually I was part of the advanced party. So I actually we got to Kuwait in September.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

Um, and then we convoyed in, and I'll tell you, we stole we uh reappropriated everything on that because that base was deactivating. I don't remember what base we were on, and um we were driving up there with because we had a CSE unit attached with us, uh a decon unit attached, and then of course all of our um engineer equipment, you know, and whatever wasn't going up on low boys or what what wasn't training up, we were driving. So we were driving a lot, but every bit of water, I mean, we the wooden porta potties you saw around there, that was because we took them out of Kuwait. We're like don't know if we're gonna have those or not. We're taking them away. So I tell you what, we went out of I I still to this day think we look like the dam plant that's going out of um Kuwait. Because if it if it wasn't tied down, it went with us Tirack. I mean, we had just we found conices full of water, so we're like in the middle of the night, the scraper pulled up, we opened up its bowl, and we're just pitching all the water because we didn't we didn't know when the supplies were coming in, you know, how to get to us. So it it literally was you're making a trip to the north everybody, come with us, you know. So we went, and that was we were there by I think three October was when we were there, and I left in I think the a 10th of October is when I got out of there.

SPEAKER_03

Okay. So you got to see the handoff with the unit that replaced us. Yes. Yep. And they I I imagine because they were fresh, they'd only been there two weeks, they probably didn't pick you up much. But I don't know. Did you do any missions with the 2-5, the other marine unit that replaced you?

SPEAKER_05

No. So I do remember the handshake with them. Um and the introduction to get the lionesses started. I and I do remember I do know it continued. Yeah. Um, but I do remember the handoff and everything, but I don't ever remember having to go back out with them because basically they wanted us to continue.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And it's like, we're not gonna be here. Why would you train us or keep us when you need to train these females?

SPEAKER_04

Right. Oh, sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

You know, that's that's kind of dumb. I mean, great, you got experience, but that's only gonna help you. You don't need to, you need to grow your own team. And so that's basically what we told them. It's like, you, you know, we'll continue to go out with our Marines, but we're not going out with the new Marines. You guys gotta call that unit. So, you know, and I do understand that. Because I always wondered, and I asked that, I'm like, why aren't we going out on any of those and those marine missions? They're like, they gotta take their own females, sure. Pick their new ones, you know. Because we're leaving. I'm like, all right, time to go get some USO and some ice cream in Kuwait.

SPEAKER_03

So fast forwarding a little bit, where did you go after Ramadi?

Guard Life Teaching And Training Marines

SPEAKER_05

Well, went back to uh Kansas, actually. Um, and we got back to Kansas, and at that time I was newly divorced, and we're sitting there looking around, and they said, Oh, by the way, enjoy your nine months. And I went, What? I'm not going back over there. I've you know, I'm divorced, my kid's four years old. I've you know, I was over in Germany when she was born from nine months until she was three years old. I was over in Germany, and I spent a year and a half of that three years in the field in Germany, and I'm like, now I spent a year of her life. I'm like, this kid is four years old, and I've actively had her two two years, and I'm like, come on. I'm like, my husband at this time has had her more than I have. I'm like, I can't do this, and and like I said, I mean, uh my well, and it is my husband now, too, believe it or not. So I'm not a smart man, Jenny. Uh, but I'm not a smart. But um I come back and I'm like, I can't do this, you know. And my mom had uh had been diagnosed of variant cancer, so so that was my my family care plans gone. And I just went up in there and I'm like, I'm not doing this. I'm pulling my family care plan, I'm getting out. I said, I can't do it. I'm I'm like I'm not I'm not having someone else raise my child. I'm I'm gonna raise my child. So I ended up getting out. I ended up going back to South Dakota where I'm originally from with my daughter, and then uh at the time, my ex-husband, he was still in Kansas because he had joined the National Guard. So he was in the National Guard and everything else like that. And um so I I was not a shitty mom because my mom told me, she's like, you know, he was a shitty husband, he was never a shitty dad. So don't you ever take that on on your daughter? She's like, you know what? Because anytime you talk bad about your daughter or about your husband or your ex-husband, all you're doing is telling your daughter that she is not good to. And I always took that to heart, so I never talked bad about my husband. And actually, even when we were going through our divorce and when we were divorced, the one thing about him, he's always been my best friend. So even, I mean, we're going through our nasty part of divorce, and we were in Iraq, and I'd call him up because couldn't talk to my parents about it. And of course, he's military. And I'd be like, Hey, we gotta throw the we gotta hold on to this divorce thing a second. I need to talk to you. What's going on? I said, and I'd explained about a mission that went on, like the guy that got shot next to me. So I don't know how to deal with this. This dude got shot next to me. It could have been me, you know. How do we? He's like, Okay, you need to do this, this, and this. I said, All right, yeah, thanks for talking about. Yeah, you're still a piece of shit. Hate your gut. Yep, bye, thanks a lot. So um, he was real, it's like I said, he was a shitty husband, he wasn't a shitty dad at that time. So um I was going back and forth, and so I would bring him every other, I would bring my daughter, you know, because I wasn't working, I was you know, enjoying my uh uh permissive TDY and my like shit ton of leave because I got out of Iraq and didn't use it and everything else like that. So I had like four four months of leave. And I'm like, I've been driving back and forth to Kansas from South Dakota, it's only a six-hour drive. I'm bringing her every other weekend. And one weekend, um, he met me halfway sometimes if he had the weekend off or something, or sometimes I'd bring him down if I had it. And we're sitting there and she's bawling. My, you know, he's bawling. And I'm like, Well, I'm the world's shittiest mom ever. Look at me, I win the award. And then I went back home to South Dakota and started packing my stuff. Mom went, what happened? I said, I can't do this, mom. I'm going back to Kansas. She's like, she like took you longer than I thought it would. I said, You knew I'd move back. She's like, I knew you wouldn't do that to that little girl. She needs her dad. She needs her mom, she needs her dad in your life. She's like, I knew you'd move back there. I said, Okay, thanks for letting me know, mom. She's like, You better figure that shit out for yourself. And all right, so I ended up moving back to Kansas. And uh, well, ex-husband helps me find a place to live and everything. And he's like, What do you want to do? I said, I don't know. I said the easiest thing to get and do is get a job on the army base. And he's like, You want to join the National Guard? I'm like, I'm not going back. He's like, It's a National Guard, bro. Come on. And I went, so he ended up getting me in the National Guard, and I ended up going and getting a federal technician job, where which is the Army's best kept secret. There's two best kept secrets of the Army, and it's a federal tech program that you have to be in the National Guard for. And then what they call the AGR program, the Army Guard Reserve. So I'm in the I end up being a federal tech for a while, and you know, so I'm working my Monday through Friday gig, where actually I did four tens. So my Monday uh I and I worked Tuesday to Friday, and it was working on I was uh repairing transmissions at you know on Fort Riley for the National Guard. I was like, that's great, and then one week in a month, you know, go in there. So I ended up having to go to, you know, my to get my next level, I have to go in and go to school. And I ended up going to Salina, Kansas, because they have which, you know, whatever, you know, wherever you can get your to go on to your E7, whatever you guys call it. So back then it was uh B knock. Now they call it ALC for us. And I went to school there. And I'm like, so here's these, you know, E6s and E7s. So I'm just a little E6, so I'm going there to, you know, I'm watching this, and I'm like, huh. These guys are getting paid to teach about mechanics and talk all day. Well, I can do this, and it's AGR. So basically, it's all the same benefits of active duty, but you stay stationary in the state of Kansas or wherever state you are, and I'm like, huh. So then I started watching, I ended up getting a job at Salina Kansas teaching maintenance. And I went best kept secret ever, which is great because I got out with 14 years of active duty service. You know, I'm like, I am done doing this. So, you know, I threw away 14 years. So I'm like, I'm like, whoo, I cut just underneath because uh they won't let you get back in if you have more than 15 years. So I came back in, they were all mad because I came in and I bumped immediately to the top of the promotion list. You know, who's there's this E. Well I'll I had to take a bus to come in because they didn't have positions. So here's this little E5 that went to the top of the list, maxed out on points. Well, of course I am. I've had every school, everything else. I went to combat. I mean, what else? Yeah, I got everything, and I get the first E6 promotion, and they yes. So I go to this the school and and I get the AGR. So both, and by this time, my husband and I are back together. So it was basically we took a year break and fixed things with us and got back together. And uh and and he he too decided to go work the schoolhouse as well. So we both got AGR positions and we worked a schoolhouse down Salina, Kansas. So he's a welder, machinist welder. So he taught taught taught taught good English for me, um, taught machining and welding for uh the school, which is uh basically satellite schools for Fort Lee, Virginia. And then I taught me uh uh Will vehicle mechanics and then some computer courses. And then I ended up continuing on and staying there basically for almost 10 years, quite honestly. And I ended up taking over the schoolhouse. I ended up becoming the first sergeant for the regiment out there for the training regiment, and um, I took over the schoolhouse as the uh um chief instructor out there. First, you know, chief instructor, I think my title was. So that's how I ended up going out and training Marines, is because they came looking to us, figuring out how to uh how to work on the HIMARS.

SPEAKER_03

Nice.

SPEAKER_05

Because uh, what is it, Pendleton out in San Diego?

SPEAKER_03

Is that the wrong one? Uh Pendleton would be just north of San Diego. If you're working on HIMARS, it was probably Pendleton, but you could have been at Miramar. Miramar is the air base down there.

SPEAKER_05

Nope, it was on Pendleton. Um, so they they actually came to us first and it'd been years. It was so funny. Um it was year, and that's when I realized I was getting old because they came in and it was uh E6 and uh staff sergeant, you know, staff, yes, and he hated it. He always corrected our staff sergeant because we just SSG and he's like T. I'm like, brace the T, T, grace the T. So we spent the whole time doing that to each other. It was pretty fun. Um, and and they were a good group that came in and it reminded me. He's like, You got you must have worked with Marines before. I said, Oh yeah. He's like, When? I said, Have you ever heard of two, four Marines? He's like, Oh yeah. I said, Well that'd you work with them? I said in Iraq. He went, oh actually, I said, I'm actually authorized to wear their patch. He's like, Are you really? I said, Yes. He's like, would you? No. He's like, why not? I said, because I'm not a Marine. That's not right. I said, I'm an army soldier. I said, that's not right. But it was pretty fun. It was it was fun going out there, and that's you know, and it's just the camaraderie and listening to all that. And uh I don't, you know, I always have to have some weird thing with them. And I get out to Pendleton, and it's I get out, and and of course I'm calling their warden officer chief. And all those little Marines look at me and I'm like, I said, I can tell right now I said something wrong, sir. So I'm gonna just call you sir until you tell me what I need to call you. He's like, I understand it's a form of respect. And he turned to him. They called their chief warrant officers chief as a sign of respect. I said, Am I supposed to actually dress you as chief warrant? He's like, or sir. I said, Got it, chief warrant, I will fix myself. And he goes, he's like, How did you know you did something wrong? He said, Oh, I watched all the little faces go, oh, that's all right. So, and my best thing about being out there is, you know, of course, all the little marine stuff and everything. I said, All right. I said, you know, I said, I got to meet the army's pretty bad. We got fat army people, and we put them right out front. I said, it's like we're proud of them. I said, I know you have fat marines. I said, but I haven't seen one. I said, I need to be, I said, in my and I I was out there for three weeks training them. I said, my three weeks here. I said, I need to see a fat marine. They're like, oh, just wait till 11 o'clock. And I'm like, well, what happens at 11 o'clock? He's like, oh, that's fat camp. I said, what the hell? Okay, what? He's like, Come and get your towel, boy, come and get your towel. And I'm like, are you fucking with me right now? And he's like, no. And so, of course, this is a little corporal, which means you know, now I have fondness for. And I'm like, I said, he's like, Well, haven't you ever heard it? That's what we sing when they say it. So he's like, Come and get your towel now, come and get your towel. That's when we all go to jail. And I went, Okay. He's like, Well, the the he's like, the whatever, the music before that. He's like, watch a half an hour before. He's like, We'll let you know, we'll just take a break then. I said, Okay. He's like, then watch out the window. I said, okay. He's like, then you'll see all the little fat marines. I said, seriously? He's like, Yeah. So okay, he's like, Oh, here it is, here it is, here it is. You gotta stop. All right. So we all go to the window. Me and my other instructor, they do too. And I said, Well, where are they? He's like, Hold on, they take them, they're slow. And I'm like, fucking with me. And he's like, No, he's like, Here come the fat marines. Sure enough, here and now I wouldn't call them real fat. There were a few fluffy ones, but I'm like, where are they all going? Do they get early too? He's like, Oh no, he's like, did get an extra PT. I went, Oh, he's like, Yeah, they get extra PT in the morning and the afternoon. So that's fat camp. I went, you guys are mean. I think we get me. He's like, Yeah, we just hide our fat ones. I said, No, put them out in the front.

SPEAKER_01

We we called them pork chop platoon, and uh, I was uh I had I had the privilege to run pork chop platoon for a little bit.

SPEAKER_05

So when he started singing come and get your toe, I laughed though.

SPEAKER_01

That's too funny.

Media Congress And Lioness Reunions

SPEAKER_03

So with all those years and you training all these different people, did anybody know you were you were spatial, you were different when you were spatial. Especially when I and I'm not trying to mean like uh you know in a rude way, but you have a very distinct history. You are literally the first lioness.

SPEAKER_05

Well, it wasn't it wasn't until when the um VA started playing it.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

For a while there, that's when people started um really figuring out who I was. So then they're like, Oh my god, you're the you're the one on that lioness. So I did get a few in the years. Um, I also I mean, because while I was in school, when I was at that schoolhouse, I went on NPR. They did uh um thing with NPR. We went on Katie Keurick, she is not a nice person. I've heard that. She's not. She's mean to the little hair and makeup people. I don't like anyone that's mean to help. Um we went up to uh we went up into Congress and we talked to Congress, like I said. Where else did we go? And we did a lot around the countryside, you know, different ones. Oh, we went up into Washington, DC, and we went to the Women's Uh Memorial Museum.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, wow.

SPEAKER_05

And uh we did a big thing up there with a bunch of people. That was pretty cool. Um yeah, that was that was neat just walking around because it was Shannon, myself, Nava, someone else. So there's four of us that got together then. So um it's been a few times that we've gotten together over the years. And um, so actually it's kind of interesting, is um our chief warrant officer, he had um cancer, very pretty devastating cancer. And he'd gone around, we called it his his great last goodbye tour. I'm sure he would hate to hear me say that, but I think that's what it was. He was going around seeing everybody and he ended up going into remission. So I think it's if anyone could kick its ass, it would have been him. Um one of the things he is is he is the uh historian for um the veterans of the first engineer battalion. He had been in the battalion twice, actually, before. So he'd been in there uh once with us and then before. And so he is part of the uh the veterans of first infantry, uh first engineers. And so they do reunions. And he had been after us to go up to uh last year, it was up a couple years ago. It was when DC was really rough, and it was up in DC. And I'm like, hey, you know, I don't go into any state that doesn't have opposity with Florida's concealed carry. So um, and DC don't let me take little friendly things up into there. Don't give you cash my drift. I just want to go up in there. And uh I said it's pretty rough. And he's like, All right, I got it. And then the next year he ended up getting real sick, so none of us went. So this year he's like, he talked to all of us, and he's like, hey, he's like, it's actually in Chicago, which I'm not that great fond of, but yeah. Um, he's like, the reunion, and it's in the first infantry division museum, which is kind of cool.

SPEAKER_03

Nice, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And um, he's like, Would you guys go? Well, he talked to me. He's like, Would you go? I said, Yeah, I'll go. I said, It actually works out pretty good. I got a wedding up in Michigan the week weekend. He's like, You guys are on Monday, I'll just come down from the weekend. I said, I'm retired, what else do I got to do? And he's like, Okay, he's like, No, I got a bigger ask. He's like, How do I get the other lionesses to come? I said, All right, well, you gotta work on Shannon. I said, If you can get Shannon to go, and she ain't been doing shit hardly. So if you can get her to go, you can get everyone to go. He's like, Well, how do you get her to go? So you gotta get her wife to go. If you can get her wife to go, she'll go. And so I he started a big huge group together, and so it sounds like out of the original 19, about 12 of us are actually gonna be wow.

SPEAKER_00

That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah, that's good. That's a good number, man.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it is, it is, and so I I mean, and it's like any unit. There might be 19, but you ain't friends with all 19 of them.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. You know, so the 12 I pretty cool with.

SPEAKER_03

That's that's that's cool.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

Her Hard Truths On Women In Combat

SPEAKER_03

Well, we've been running our mouths for about a, I don't know, a little over an hour and a half, hour and 40 minutes. Uh any part and thoughts? Anything that Romadi means to you specifically, or or anything else really that we didn't cover?

SPEAKER_05

Well, the one thing I've always thought that was, you know, I think my part and thought, and it's what I get asked the most, especially now in this changing society, with, you know, are they with the units opening up to females and everything else? And everyone's like, well, you know, you did the lioness missions, you you were in a heavily dominated MOS that was more towards a male-dominated, you know, thing. She's like, what do you think on women in combat? You know, you've got to be a big prior, you know, push for that. And everyone's always kind of surprised that, you know, actually, I'm not a big pusher for females in combat missions. Is that not the weirdest thing either? And the real and I'll tell you the reason why.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm curious.

SPEAKER_05

Um, because first and foremost, I do believe that not every female can do the job. Because if you can't do a male standard PT test and you can't do a male standard part for the infantry, then you shouldn't be an infantryman. But I also think a male is the same way because I've met a few males out there that can't do those same standards either. Right, right. Also, if you can't do the job, you don't need to be out there doing it. You know, it's not like all right, it's like the army. If you can't do the job, you become a cook. I'm not saying everybody could cook because I've ate the meals in the army. So you know, that's what they did to everybody. Everybody can be a cook, no, they can't. Right. So, and I think that's the one thing about it. And the the one worry about it is I always worry, you know, us three are in a foxhole or in a firefight. I get captured, you get captured, he gets captured. Who are you gonna worry about first?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I'm gonna worry about you.

SPEAKER_05

You're gonna worry about me.

SPEAKER_03

I I know what the enemy does.

SPEAKER_05

Yep, everybody knows what the enemy does. See, and and that that's the biggest thing with combat. And why I'm not a big predominant push towards the combat mission. Am I willing to take that role on put on for myself? I don't have a problem with doing it, but I didn't think I put myself in that position um per se. Uh so now, would I ever want my daughter to be in a combat? But I also don't want my my daughter to be in the military at all. You know, I I joined the army hoping that I would never have my children be in the in a war. We know that will never happen because yeah, no one will ever agree. If you have two people, they'll have two opinions and they will never agree, right? You know, unfortunately. So yeah. Yep. But I mean, so that's the one thing about it. I do think, and I have met females out there that can do the infantry job, the the ranger women out there that are kicking ass, my god, more power to them. That that's amazing and good for you know, but I do think there's there's roles and there's missions in combat for females. So I can't say that I don't think women should be in combat, it's just the combat heavy, like an infantryman. You know, it's just that's that's a rough mission, but uh there's places in there for kind like the lioness, it was a needed mission, and and everybody forgets. It's a true saying when I say that Molly Pitcher was you know in 1770. Oh, yeah. You know, and it's been going along a lot longer than we've been doing in. So it's out there and it's doing it. So I think that's I think my weirdest thing with everything. Um, but my lioness time, I've always I've always enjoyed it. I enjoyed, didn't always enjoy it. I'm glad I did it. I enjoyed seeing the items and some of the stuff I did. And I of course would never, you know, I would never do it so somebody else would have to do my job for me.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Yeah. I think that's I mean, that's a feeling shared by all of us by far. I'd I'd rather step forward than and let you. I'm not gonna have you pick up my slack ever. Doesn't matter what it is.

SPEAKER_05

No, I don't care even even to this day. I'll still, oh, we need to move this, I'll be right there in the thick of it because you know I'm not gonna ask you to do something I ain't gonna be able to do.

SPEAKER_03

Well, Randy, thank you so much for your time. Nope, thank you for reaching out. I I mean this sincerely. You're a legend. They asked of you something that nobody should have asked, and uh it's it's fucking badass that you were able to do it. Uh I hope we treated you all right. Oh I feel like I feel like we did uh in 2004, but uh I imagine there were some rough moments. Uh our company specifically was a an interesting band of characters. Oh, and so there's there's no telling who you were with.

SPEAKER_05

But uh there were some good in the Rainmaker Platoon, there were teams, there were some good guys in there. I enjoyed running with them there. And like I said, I don't I don't distinctly ever remember going, oh my god, I hate everyone with that.

SPEAKER_03

Well, that's good. That's good, good, good. Small victory.

SPEAKER_05

I went, holy shit. Good thing you went to the Marines.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, that's bet I can name them.

SPEAKER_05

Oh the Kevlar story still blows. Why are you wearing that bullet? The Kevlar's compromise. That's my lucky Kevlar. I'm like, oh no.

SPEAKER_03

All right. Well, we'll let you we'll let you take off. I'll be in touch, and uh I I hope to talk to you before another 20 years. That'd be a good time. Sounds good. All right, it was great seeing you.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service.