Adapt, Overcome, and Improvise - Ruben Ventocilla

We catch up with Lance Corporal Ruben Ventocilla as he walks us from pre-deployment training to the heat and chaos of Ramadi in 2004, including IED strikes, gear shortages, and the constant need to adapt. He also leads us through his medevac to Baghdad story and where his service sits with him 20 years later. 

• black ice in New Jersey 
• leadership and training details that stick for decades 
• joining the Marine Corps as a Peruvian immigrant 
• early Iraq moments
• driving versus dismounting and how roles shaped focus
• scavenging and improvising gear
• arriving in Ramadi and making hooch life workable 
• having "a stroke" and the Baghdad hospital trip 
• downtime routines
• reporters in the AO and meeting Oliver North 
• chemical weapon rumors
• coming home readjustment and the uneasy “hero” label 

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Transcript

Welcome And Meet Ruben

SPEAKER_00 0:37

All right, man. Let's tell everybody who you are.

SPEAKER_04 0:39

So I'm Lance Corpo, uh Ruben Bentosia. I was with uh Ringmaker Sledgehammer back in 2004 in Ramadi. Um maybe I'll start, maybe I'll start with a funny story. Sure. Um and this is like I know some folks have talked about um kind of what we did, the training, the workup uh to go to Ramadi.

SPEAKER_03 1:05

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06

This is more regarding around uh once we got to New Jersey, because it was my first time like uh in the snow pretty much.

unknown 1:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

I didn't know what black ice was. So I I recall um myself and Worth, like I can't exactly remember what we were doing. I think it might have been like either going to the Chajo or PX, and we're walking in parallel, right? And I see him like take a sidestep and keep walking, and I'm just like, whatever, you know. I keep walking. And then next thing I next thing I noticed I'm like falling down, so I have to like tuck in the chin and do a combat fall, and I see what and he's just like busting his ass, laughing, and like I didn't know, but I had stepped on black ice, and it was like my first time, so you know I didn't know what it was.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

That's hilarious. I like that you had to deploy to Iraq to uh discover black ice and snow. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 2:08

Yes, me being from California, it was like a new experience. So uh being in that snowy environment, uh doing all of those PT drills, I think it was good.

SPEAKER_01 2:21

Nice.

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Um, but yeah, I mean it was it wasn't so funny for me because I was like on my ass, but yeah, well yeah, it's it's it's funny 20 years later, anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Right. If I remember correctly, you guys you guys had a pretty good size snowball fight too, right? 81s did, yeah. We did. Did you participate in the snowball fight, Ruben?

SPEAKER_04 2:45

Uh I can't recall, but I'm sure I did. It was like uh part uh whatchamacallit, like uh group effort, you know? Like one got in, everybody joined in.

Workups And Hard Lessons From Leaders

SPEAKER_02 2:55

So nice. So what so uh kind of dialing a little bit before um getting to New Jersey when our plane broke down, uh what do you did you do any special spin-ups um coming on to the didn't did you do any division schools or did you just go to March and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Yeah, I think I just did the usual. I just went to March. Uh I recall like Gunny Maracy's uh training. Um I actually recall recall one of his uh one of his trainings. I don't know where we were at, but like we were like practicing uh reloading, like but it was the way he showed it, it was like very specific. Like you had to like take out a magazine, like put it in your side pouch, and like it was like very tactical. And I just recall I don't know what I was doing, like I I was still trying to put two and two together. Like, are we like for sure going to Iraq? So, like uh anyways, like I messed up and like Ghani Maraki was on my ass, like chewing me out, and I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't know what I did, but uh but I mean uh I just recall uh Ghani Marathi and like everything he taught us. It was like it was like some of the some of the stuff was difficult and tough, but I think it was just like he was trying to like teach us and like make us understand like you know, we're we're gonna hit the shit and we better be on uh you know be on it. So yeah, I just uh I really yeah, good times.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah, he was one of those few people that was in the battalion. There was only a couple of them that had previous combat experience prior to anything, prior to Afghanistan and Iraq, at least of this iteration. But also he was an instructor at Quantico, and he had a ton of different types of experience. He also had, and this was always one of the things we used to joke about that some Secret Service agent had to deliver his SRB because it was classified. But he did also have a classified file that that was part of his qualifications that you know it wasn't all of his records weren't in his SRB, so you go to his SRB and there's like a gap. So it was interesting.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

Was he also a sniper? I think he was.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

He was, yeah, he was sniper, he was formerly sniper trained and everything.

Growing Up Fast Before The War

SPEAKER_04 5:22

So yeah, that's very cool. Um, but yeah, I mean uh before I joined the Marine Corps, you know, I was just uh straight out of high school. I think I was like, I don't know if you if you guys know, but like I I came from Peru. So like I came to the US. I forgot about that, but yeah. I came to the US when I was 12. So I joined the Marine Corps when I was 17. So like my my English was very broken. It probably still is, but like I'm hoping it's uh a little bit better now.

SPEAKER_02 5:50

But it's it's uh you've come a long way in 25 years, my friend.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Well, if I am I wrong, but I think we were all in infantry school together, right? All three of us, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:06

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

I don't ever remember having a hard time understanding you, but I also grew up in Arizona, so I was talking to people who spoke Spanish my whole life. So maybe it was just me, but I I don't I think you always were doing pretty good, especially for somebody who only been around for five years.

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Yeah, no, no, that uh I was teasing you, uh Ruben, but no, there's there were several there's several other people I'm not gonna name that were uh a lot harder to understand.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

I mean, it's all good. I mean, I I recall like our seniors like T-Wig and uh some of the other folks kind of picking on me, but I think uh looking at it now, uh in hindsight, you know, I think it was just like out of love, you know, like they weren't picking on me because they were mean. I think they were trying to be supportive somehow, maybe.

SPEAKER_02 7:01

I I think in some we we're they uh I think they all found something that made you unique and then chose that as the thing that they were going to grind on you because I definitely had my my choice things that they uh chose to uh make sure I was aware of my shortcomings on.

SPEAKER_04 7:22

And I think we were on the same platoon, right, Maser, for a boot camp? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I remember uh I think it was Sergeant Paul always being on my case.

SPEAKER_02 7:34

Good times. Good times, good times had by all. But yeah, no, yeah, we did, and then uh uh yeah, and then we got to the fleet about the same time too. Um, but Maryland and I came a little bit later, but I remember you getting knocked out by that bipod and you having to stay behind in SY.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

I think you you try to try to get up, and like some uh sergeant from SOI was like, No, Master, you gotta you can't continue doing the hike. You were like, No, but I can I can do it. I can do it.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

No, that it it was uh it was actually the barrel because I was I was carrying it crucifix, and then when I fell, the back of the barrel hit the back of the nape of my neck, and then my head hit a rock. Oh or at least that's just what I was told, and I was out just out cold. Um, and then other people are gonna have to jump in and tell this the the mic because I don't remember I don't remember anything for about a week, and so I got knocked out bad.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

You look dead, you look dead at the time. That was and then honestly, I think they thought you were dead because they were slapping the shit out of you to try to wake you up. So I they I think they thought you were dead because you you were pale white, not really breathing, not really moving, and they were like smacking you and you weren't responding, and then all of a sudden, just like Ruben said, you got up like a zombie and were like, I'm just gonna keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Yeah, not service related though. Uh yeah, that's right. I was getting TBIs before they were uh they were in vogue. You started it.

SPEAKER_00 9:10

That's right. Trendsetter, yeah, good. Yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 9:16

Uh that's good. Uh let's see, but but I I'm guessing maybe I'll start off by saying, like when I joined the Marine Corps, um September 11 had to happen. So I was thinking, you know, I'll do my four years, deploy whatever, uh, get the VA loan, get my studies out the way. But September 11 kind of, you know, threw a monkey in the wrench type of thing in my process. Yeah. But um uh I don't know. I mean, being in the infantry, I think it really helped me grow up because at the time, I think when I joined, I was 17. So I I went to boot camp. I was barely 18. So I think it really helped me like understand uh the big picture, be more responsible. Um I think it helped me grow up pretty quick. Uh, because I remember what especially when I came back from Iraq and once I left Marine Corps, I felt like a lot of people, for example, at college or at the university level, they were like bickering over little stuff, and I was like, you know, it's it's whatever, no big deal. Just keep doing your thing. So I think it helped me uh from a perspective, you know, just be more insightful and overall just you know, focus on the big things. Like, who cares about the little stuff?

SPEAKER_02 10:35

Yeah, that's true. It's always easy to keep it a little bit more in perspective when somebody's not shooting at you. So exactly.

SPEAKER_04 10:44

And especially after like uh listening to some of the other podcasts, like I'm surprised how uh you know, getting shot up, uh getting ID'd, it was just normalized, right? Like we especially like I felt like it it came at a certain time when we were just doing our thing and and it was normal. Like we were just like, uh, you know, just another day.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

Do you remember the first time you got into a firefight?

SPEAKER_04 11:11

Uh I remember I think it was when Worth got ID'd. Uh okay. I remember like and and I was telling this to Worth uh when we got back. I was like, Worth, I know you got ID'd and it was weird, but but um I just felt like some negative energy before the the the explosion now and I was just like I don't know if it was just me, like I don't know what was happening, but like it wasn't right because like there was nobody around, and you know, do you see like I don't know if it was like a bicycle or like whatever was on the side and then the explosion goes off, and like I just remember uh you know, after Worth had had been ebaced or whatever, like I just felt so upset and uh so like like uh I was so angry that I couldn't like shoot back or anything because like I think initially somebody was throwing rocks at us, or I can't remember exactly.

Kuwait Scavenging And Rolling North

SPEAKER_02 12:17

Oh, oh yeah, no, that was yeah, they get they gathered up and they were down the alleyway and they were hucking rocks at us. And so that was I remember I have a very vivid memory of of just praying that one of those rocks pegged me so I had a reason to uh to engage. Um but never did so fortunately because that would have been not good. But um so were you a dismount at that point or were you a driver?

SPEAKER_04 12:48

Initially I was a driver, so when when we went to not before actually, was it Kuwait? Um yeah, because we flew in, we got into Kuwait, and then oh, another funny story. Before we drove up to uh Ramadi, I remember uh chatting with uh Savage. He was like, uh, hey Ventosia, like I need you to to set up these uh because remember in the highbacks we had this this wooden structure where we would like uh sit on and we would put like coolers or whatever underneath it. I rem I can't remember if it was Savage or Regalsberger, like one of the two that were like, I need you to to build this wooden structure, figure it out. And I was just like, all right. So I somehow I came up with you know having those those uh six uh like big wooden pieces or whatever, and then kind of kind of like a big sandwich, right? So I don't know if it did the job, but at the time I was like, if I just put four of those big wooden pieces, I'm sure that's not gonna fly. So luckily having six of them, and it wasn't too big or too small, so I think maybe like at least four people could sort of sit comfort comfortably on it. So I remember that was that was pretty cool. Oh, I remember him telling me, Hey, uh Bentosia, we're gonna go. And uh what does he say? Like something about dumpster diving, and I just looked at him like like fuck you, I'm not gonna, you know, dumpster dive. And he was like, No, no, no, I'm gonna do it. You just help me carry all the shit. And I'm like, all right, I'll do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

We uh we did a lot uh as a as a company, we did a lot of scavenging uh prior to us rolling up there. Uh we I don't I would be curious at what the what the statistic actually would be of the percentage of things that we brought up there that wasn't ours 24 hours before that.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Oh yeah, that probably a lot.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

It's a it's a it's a ridiculous number, I think.

SPEAKER_00 15:00

I mean almost all of those doors that we got were were taken from that National Guard unit.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

We got a couple of fans that we wired in to the Humvee battery, so we had fans in the like just blowing hot ass air, but at least it was something, some moving air when you were sitting still. And extra tires, gas.

SPEAKER_02 15:20

I got I had got like nine tires and a bunch of cherry cans.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Yeah, lots of toe straps. Uh, we had one actual tow bar uh that that we had taken. And yeah, it's just so much so much stuff, so much stuff like that. A lot of extra batteries. I remember a lot of extra batteries. Somebody, some I don't I want to say it was one of the calm guys, got like cases of batteries, and he hid them under his rack. He had them the whole deployment, he would just dole them out like two at a time as you needed for the for the radios.

SPEAKER_04 15:52

That's awesome. Yeah, and then let me think. Uh, so I remember I drove up to uh Hurricane Point. Uh Fernandez was my A driver, and I recall like after a while needing to take a piss, and I was like, Fernandez, do you have a bottle? I need to go. And he was like, luckily, uh either he had a Gatorade bottle or something, and he was like, Here, go to town. So I just kind of did my thing on the side, and he kind of had to jump over and like grab the steering wheel, and I was just like focused on doing my business.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Yeah, I'll uh I'll freely admit I was a driver on the way up and I did not navigate that very successfully. I uh that's uh that's uh chalk it up to the Irish curse, and I could not uh quite between the dick flap uh blackjack protector and everything, that did not work out well for me.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

So I mean, I'm not gonna say I'm innocent, like it was a mess. But you know, it ride.

SPEAKER_01 16:59

So mission accomplishment. That's right. Then troop welfare.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

Yes, absolutely. So was the back of your truck just filled with gear, or did you have anybody in the back?

SPEAKER_04 17:13

I think it was just mostly sea bags and other stuff. Like I remember, uh I think I don't remember where we stopped, but like we stopped somewhere, and like I recall Mater and like I don't know who else, like we kind of went on a scavenger hunt and like gather some some stuff from like some army folks. I think they had like some some of those portable chairs, and I was like, oh, I think I can, you know, I need this more than than they do.

SPEAKER_01 17:42

So there were several of us that had that liberated some chairs from that.

unknown 17:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Uh uh because I I I know somebody that also got um like a pioneer gear uh set from them, too.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

Um we had those those three red toolboxes that were full of tools. That was my platoon that liberated it from that army con that same army convoy. We found their mechanics truck and we were like, you have six, you now have three. We have three, and that what we repaired everything. We repaired the showers, we repaired everything, uh everything on the whole deployment with those tools. So, which is great.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

That's awesome. Yeah, we needed it more than than they did, right? Well, we did.

SPEAKER_02 18:33

We're the we're the Marine Corps, we don't get shit.

SPEAKER_04 18:36

That's right. Our budget, our budget is quite lacking, so that's right. We do what we can.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

So, what do you remember of uh coming into Ramadi for the first time?

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Coming into Ramadi, like I don't remember any of the the left seat, right seat. Um I just remember showing up and then I think somebody did some sort of like uh improvement to our hooches because initially it was just a mess. I can't remember if if it was Macnon or somebody else, but somebody did something. Uh and I remember especially like when we first got there, we we had those uh those uh really crappy metal uh bunk beds. And then I remember um because I I went to the gym and like did all did all this other stuff, I saw that that we had some really uh good, well I wouldn't say good, but they were better than when we had like the the black uh bunk beds, not back beds, but it was still it was it's it was still metal, but it just looked a little better. So like I don't know if I started the trend, but like I got one one of those bunk beds, and like little by little, I think I I got man and escalante into it, and I and I think we just grabbed everything we could. And because I don't know if you recall, Master, but at the end we had well, I think we had two bunk beds, like the the all crappy one, the the original one, and like the the one that was black that was a little bit better. And I and I think I think I don't remember if if man was sleeping above me, but like I know I remember that we used that black uh bunk bed as our uh you know as our bed because it was way more comfortable. Good deal. I love it. Um what else? I mean, I I don't know. Um I guess as I think about the missions that we did and whatnot. Um I specifically remember uh one of the missions were where we took at the engineers and I think they had some uh I think they were looking for IDs or whatever, but I remember there was like a like a trail, but it was quite high. It was like six or seven feet up high, and there was like I don't know what I don't know exactly what what the name of it was, um called. Um anyways, so so they were doing their thing. I remember um we were we were doing the security, so we were walking alongside with them, and then I remember uh Captain Weiler was maybe 30, 40 uh feet ahead of me, and I just remember just doing whatever he was doing. Like initially he was like uh uh um walking um very close to the engineers, so I did the same thing, and then I noticed that he came down the the road and and got away from from like the main trail. I followed him and like and then like before I know it, the the big IED went off, and I was like, oh my gosh, like I'm so glad I I followed Captain Wyler's path, because like otherwise I I would have been, you know, uh another casualty. So I remember the explosion was quite big.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

Yeah, yeah. If I was guessing, if I was guessing, I imagine you're referring. Referring to the engineers that were on the Habanya Dam, which was like May 29th-ish, because it was my platoon and your platoon sledgehammer that were out there, and the XO was out there, and the CO was out there, and it was it. Yeah, that was an interesting uh operation in that the we none of us wanted to do it. We we all thought it was a bad idea, but it was it came from higher up command than us, and the engineers were clearing that dam with handheld uh metal detectors. Yeah. So that was that was the uh that was what happened. But those two guys that uh that got wounded in an explosion, they did live.

SPEAKER_04 23:15

So yeah, thank god because oh my gosh, uh it was it wasn't a uh a nice sight, you know.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Agreed. Do you have other memories of any of those other sweeps that did? And I mean we did a lot of uh ordering and searches and kicking down doors and stuff like that. Any pop in your head?

SPEAKER_04 23:38

I think it's all a blur. Like I remember in particular, um I remember when Worth got hit. I remember the the April dates. I think we were stuck on Camp Card. So uh I think our uh one of the last days we went out and did like a we're part of the the Corden security uh outfit, so we were kind of doing our thing.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Um what else? I remember just getting ID'd.

SPEAKER_04 24:17

Uh and I don't know, I don't know, maybe we didn't have I mean I know we didn't have uh the right gear for it. Uh and it's kind of nuts that we went out in highbacks, you know. I I think we were like getting targeted just because there's lack of uh shields or whatever. What else?

SPEAKER_00 24:44

It's funny you say that because I remember rolling up to, for example, I remember going to Blue Diamond and seeing the Humvees they had. They had additional armor panels that were that were strapped on with cloth straps on the outside of the doors. And I remember seeing people in the turrets with it almost looked like medieval battle armor, but it was made out of like layers of Kevlar, and like we would point and laugh at them and be like, What the fuck are you doing? And I'm sure what's funny is I'm sure they were doing the same thing is like, what are you doing? You're just you're bare meat out there waiting to get blown up. So it it's uh it's an interesting contrast, especially since mid-deployment, we started getting much more armor and many more armored assets, which may or may not have been helpful, but they seem to be helpful since our the biggest threat was IEDs.

SPEAKER_04 25:37

Yeah, I I recall like initially I was a driver, and then I can't remember at what point I was uh part of the dismount, and we got one of those up armored uh Humbees. So I just felt a little bit safer because those you know, we had those very thick doors, and it was just like getting a workout, just opening the doors. So that was that was pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_02 26:03

Did you feel like you had a like I at least on from my memory of it all, we didn't necessarily have solid continuous teams, like you kind of got moved around a lot. But did you feel like you had a group that you were rolling out with most of the time? Did you have a battle buddy as such?

SPEAKER_04 26:22

To be honest, I think I was part of the third vehicle when I was driving. Um, I was driving, I think Gwade was my A driver. Um, I can't recall who was in the back, if I'm being quite honest. I do remember that um Staterman was was the driver for vehicle two. I remember McLeod was part of the dismount, uh Rocha. I don't know if it was WizDak. Um but yeah, I mean once once I became part of the the dismount team, I I can't I'll be lying if I told you, oh yeah, I I rode with with such and such. I don't remember.

SPEAKER_02 27:06

We as I've had these conversations with Nyland and and the other teams, I think we and I think even Rainmaker was a little bit different, but I my memory is that we switched it up a lot. I remember having quite a few different drivers, I remember having quite a few different uh gunners. The teams rolled out differently. I think towards the end, I think it got a little bit more set a little bit more, um, but not by not by a whole lot because I have I have pictures even of being with different people all the fucking time.

Bell’s Palsy Scare And Medevac

SPEAKER_04 27:42

So yeah. I mean, my my memory gets a little bit foggy. Like I do like one of the last things I do remember is like uh going out and doing this night mission, and then I can't remember if it was like Escabe or like who I was talking to, but like I remember I thought it was a little kid that threw a tomato uh at the Hambi and like it hit me on the on the side of the of the head, like right above my ear. And like once once we came back from the mission, I realized that it wasn't a tomato, it was like, I don't know if it was like a bee or a wasp, but I remember like taking out a big old like stung thing. It was so painful, and I remember um whatchamacallit, just like being in a lot of pain, and then I remember after a while, I think it was Doc Henkel, he was like, Hey, uh uh, I think you need to get checked out. Um because uh he noticed that that the left side of my face uh had gone numb. Oh, and they were like, You might be having a stroke, and I was like, Oh okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Red Boss, this isn't good.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

Yes, so so Doc Hinkle takes me to uh uh I think it was Doc Rakebrand or yeah, that would have been our line doc. Yeah, and then he was like, All right, let's get the lieutenant. So so they they take me uh out to see the the lieutenant, and uh the lieutenant is like checking my face, and like uh I recall uh Doc Raybrand in the background, like like making fun of my face because it was like I couldn't move it, like for the life of me, like like oh my god, I could move the right side fine, but it was just the left side, it was like so difficult. And uh I remember uh Doc Raybrand, he was like, Hey uh Doc Inko, like don't make fun of Bentosia because he could be having a stroke. This is very serious. And like, you know, at the time I think I was 21, whatever, 20. Um, and I was just like, a stroke at my age, like whatever. You know, like I I didn't think it was it was uh a valid uh response. Um, but what ended up happening is they they evaked me to Baghdad. And then once I got to Baghdad, uh they checked me out. I don't know what they did on MRI or whatever. I'm not very uh savvy when it comes to those type of tests. Yeah. And they tell me, so uh it's not a stroke, but it spales policy. So I think it was like an inflammation of the seventh cranial nerve or something like that, I think is what that what they described.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

That's a good memory, man. That's a good description of it.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

Yeah, nice. And I was like, well, uh, like what's the cause? Like, how did I get it? And they were like, we don't know. I was like, great. I I think afterwards they were saying, oh, it's it's due to stress or something like that. And I'm like, no shit, I'll move on again. Yeah, and I just remember um maybe staying in Baghdad at the hospital, maybe like uh one day or two days, I can't remember exactly, but I just remember going back to uh Hurricane Point.

SPEAKER_02 31:38

How did you get back?

SPEAKER_04 31:40

Sorry, how did you get back? Oh uh uh uh uh helicopter took me back.

SPEAKER_00 31:47

See, I was gonna ask, how did you they flew you out there and then they flew you back?

SPEAKER_04 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Nice, dude. You got a little free helicopter tour of Iraq? Yes, nice.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Now did you map go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 31:59

I was just gonna ask, did you go to the main hospital right in downtown Baghdad? The the one near the green zone or in the green zone?

SPEAKER_04 32:05

I have no idea, but I just remember it was uh a mismash of like uh US personnel and also like Baghdad folks. So I don't know if if it was the main one or not.

SPEAKER_00 32:19

Hard to tell. There was like three big hospitals at that time in 2004, but uh the main big hospital was the one that was closest to what became known as the green zone of the international zone. But uh you could have been in any of them. I was I was just curious if you had any memories of it because that's that's interesting. I didn't even know you had left, so that's I I don't have a memory of that either.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

Do you have any idea when that would have been in the deployment? Was that beginning, middle, end?

SPEAKER_04 32:45

Yeah, I my memory's a little bit foggy. Uh it wasn't for sure at the beginning. I want to say it was maybe towards the middle or towards the end. Because I I just remember uh coming back. Uh I think I had like they told me to take it easy for a couple days. And I remember it was sasaki. Like when I was going to the child hall, uh, I think it might have been breakfast or something. Like it was very embarrassing because um the left side of my face was numb. So like whenever I ate cereal, it would go in one side, but it would go out the other side. And Kakaki just just came up to me and he was like very concerned. And I kind of told him, it's fail spacy, you know. They told me it will go away. It's no biggie.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

That's awesome. I also you're good now. Like, how long did that last?

SPEAKER_04 33:48

It lasted a while. Um, I wouldn't say I'm good. Um, I noticed like, for example, especially the the left side. Um, when I'm super tired, I look I look like KK like on the left side. Let's you know, like remember when he would smile and like you couldn't see his eyes? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:11

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Uh uh that's awesome. But at least the right side is good, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:18

So sure, sure, sure. Oh shit.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Um but yeah, good times. Yeah. Uh unfortunately, I I don't remember uh exactly when it happened, and now looking at it hindsight, you know, I wish I would have kept a journal or like some sort of note.

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Yeah, no, I I tried a couple times and it was several failed attempts, but it is what it is. That's what this is for, right? Yeah, better late than never.

Downtime Coping Movies Smokes And Food

SPEAKER_04 34:51

Exactly. Because like to me, I I just took it at one day at a time, you know. I was just like, no, don't focus too much about what's gonna happen in two, three months, just focus about today, do your thing, go from there. I do remember um when we were back in in the hooch, um, you know, going to that crappy washing machine, and like it seemed like whenever I would go, Corolla would always go with me. So it was it was cool just to kind of shoot the shit and kind of grab some smokes. Um, but I do remember I spent a lot of my time uh watching those Haji uh series or whatever. Uh I remember the shield was big. So I remember watching that a lot, spending a lot of time on the smoke pit. I remember that before Iraq I wasn't a smoker, and then I think I smoked like a pack a day, maybe a couple a day.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Common story.

SPEAKER_04 35:58

Yeah. I I remember I don't know if it was Wade or somebody that was trying to get me into dipping, but I thought Copenhagen was a little bit too harsh for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:13

I appreciate that. So what so you watched uh so back in the hooch, you you were mostly a I remember you playing cards too. Something cards, or did you not play that often? I just have a memory of you playing a couple times, at least maybe, but maybe every now and then I would.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

Uh I just remember it was Hinkle, uh Wade, uh McLeod, and somebody else that would always play Blackjack. Maybe it was uh the that 3-5 uh Corpo that joined us afterwards. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

Yeah, there was a couple well, the three the um Martinez and uh would play um, I know, um, but um he would have a uh red red hair. I forgot. Oh, Clark. You're talking about Clark, yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah, those guys would play a lot, yeah. But I guess I now that I'm thinking about it, I guess those were the really the only guys that other places people would rotate in and out on cards, but we mostly watched movies and stuff like that. Exactly. I think a lot of people had their own DVD player.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Yep, that was me just laying on my rack and and watching some series. Um, I remember uh Gunny Cook coming by and dropping off some books and I would read them. I can't recall what type of books they were, but I I remember him like checking back on me every like after two or three days, he was like, Are you done? I'm like, I'm sorry, Gunny. I'm I'm a slow reader, you know. He was like, You should be done. I'm like, not yet. Give me some time.

SPEAKER_02 37:54

Uh we had a pretty big library over there, that's for sure. Comparatively, not surprisingly large, considering it was an infantry, but but it was an infantry unit of uh Marines. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:07

I remember um I think my parents went to Peru and got some of the uh chocolate or whatever. They they they mailed it out of my way. And of course, uh it was just all mush, you know, but I wasn't gonna throw that away. So I just kind of did my thing and and I still ate it, but it was it was quite good. And I also remember that I didn't know um how to use uh like the scapano noodles, you know, how you have to add in some uh hot water, uh, wait like five minutes or whatever before you eat them. So I remember like Doc Henko like teaching me, oh you know, you can also put like some beef uh Frankfurters on top. You mix it up and and you eat it, and I'm like, oh my gosh. Sounds delicious, especially after all the all the shit they gave us at the those eggs were so nasty.

SPEAKER_02 39:07

Boil it in a bag and then cut it open and dump it out. Seriously.

SPEAKER_04 39:15

But I mean overall, I get I remember just getting ID'd on some of the missions. Um of course waiting for EOD to come out, they would take forever. I'm just surprised, uh but in a good way, that they had so many chances to to really hit us, but you know, luckily the timing was off.

SPEAKER_02 39:45

No, we definitely got lucky. Yeah, especially as we were figuring it all. I mean, there's a lot of times that we were standing around in a pretty big gaggle where if they wanted to put some effective fire on us, they would have taken out quite a few of us.

SPEAKER_04 39:59

But exactly. Like I remember because initially I was a driver, I was always stuck with the vehicle, and then I was always uh helping out the the gunner, right? So I was like watching his back, and I always had this feeling like I'm I'm a sitting duck, you know, because like I couldn't move, and and you know, it wasn't it wasn't uh an easy, easygoing feeling, but I was just so glad when I was part of the dismount, I would just you know go into the houses, do whatever I needed to do, so so that was a good feeling.

SPEAKER_02 40:38

Any specific memories in any of the houses?

Reporters Gear Upgrades And Odd Missions

SPEAKER_04 40:42

Um not necessarily. I I do remember one of the times when when we went in to a house, uh, I think it was like uh Escabelle, and like I don't know who who was all um with me at the time, but I remember that we went into the house, we came out, and then we had to walk for for like a really long time from the house to the vehicle, and it was like we had to like take turns looking looking at the at the rear, and it was just like so uneasy because of course we we make a lot of noise and everybody knows that we're there. Um but you know, luckily nothing happened. Yeah, but I mean what else? I remember uh the reporter Oliver North was there. I think we took a picture with him uh in front of the palace. That was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Yeah. Did you know who he was before we deployed?

SPEAKER_04 42:04

I had no idea. Yeah, I just thought it was some some old dude.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah. Also very common, which I think is funny, how famous he really is.

SPEAKER_04 42:14

Yeah, I mean again, you know, just just me being uh uh my I only had a high school education at the time, right? So um I think it was Sergeant Anthony that somebody mentioned was very good uh into the history, and yeah. But I mean he had a a very distinguished background, right? Wasn't he like a colonel or a or an E5 or a O5 or a O6?

SPEAKER_00 42:42

He was a very, very combat active Marine Colonel in uh in Vietnam, and then after that he became uh part of the president's uh inner cabinet, and then the famous thing was the I Iran Contra deal that was in the early 80s with Ronald Reagan, and he ended up uh uh testifying and and being blamed for it being not handled correctly.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

That's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:07

Yeah, and then later, you know, he worked his way on to uh Fox News as a war correspondent uh in the first Gulf War, and then come our time. He I mean, at least from my perspective, he was the only person who was down in the dirt in Ramadi really filming anything. Him and and you know, obviously Dave Swanson took a lot of those famous pictures when he was with the guys in Echo. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Yeah. We had a lot of other I and I know that the other platoons rolled out, but um I don't know. I don't know if it's my just my perspective, but I feel like we had we escorted a lot of reporters and high profile people just feel like they were with us a lot uh doing kind of odd missions. Um so I don't know if that was again, if that was just me or feeling that way, or if it really was that Sledgehammer tended to get the we reporters, but I feel like I swear to god we had a reporter every other week in our in one of our trucks.

SPEAKER_00 44:11

Yeah, I feel like after talking to you guys, uh we did not take that many people like that. We did pick people up from other camps and bring them back, and we did a lot of long distance runs. Like, for example, we went all the way to Fallujah. Uh we we did A bunch of weird long distance crap all the time where we would pick up items and pick up different things and different people, but never never anything like that. No high value stuff, no tourist activity. You guys got to do all the tourist stuff.

SPEAKER_02 44:42

Yay. The XO reminded me that we we we'd ran out to um we were the ones that escorted him out for the um service for the uh pilot that got shot down cookie. Uh his call sign. Right. And we got we got hit on so many times with IEDs on that trip. But um, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 45:10

Um, I do remember um the the trade that uh Gunny Cook did. I think he traded four highbacks, and we got like I don't know how many um those those up armored vehicles. Um this might have been also with when some of the 51s came to our uh platoon, or it might have been uh a separate inch instance, but I just thought it was great. You know, he he gives up one highback and we get like two of those up up armored Humbies. So I mean uh now in hindsight it makes sense, right? Because you can only fit five people versus a highback, maybe nine to ten. So I thought that was pretty cool. But I just remember um trying to adapt, I think always being ready uh to do uh because uh uh it was just maybe maybe my take, but like sometimes I felt like we we were told, hey, you're gonna do A, and then we would go out, and then it would just we would do something completely different. So just always being being ready to to change whatever we needed to do, I think was was important. Um I remember getting uh uh a bunch of motors, right? Getting shot at us. Um I can't remember uh like one of them, uh some gas kind of leaked out.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:51

And like a lot of people were freaking out, and uh I was just like, you know, if it's your time, it's your time, you know. It doesn't matter if you run.

Gas Attacks And Chemical Weapon Fears

SPEAKER_00 47:02

Well, there's so there's a little bit of background on that. So that particular gas shell attack you're talking about was June 8th. I have I have that down in my notes. Um prior to that, I think it was May, probably May 21st-ish, is if I was it was in the later part of May. There was a sarin gas shell that was detonated as part of an IED on an on an army convoy and not far from Ramadi. And so I think it was my platoon and maybe your platoon, I don't remember. Two platoons were going out to like we went out and grabbed all the mop suits and everything and put them in the back of the trucks and were driving as fast as we could to go out there, and we never made it out there. Uh, we got turned around, but we drove forever to try to get there, with with the understanding that was called over the radio, like this is an active chemical weapon. Oh wow. And so, I mean, just a few weeks later, right? Two, three weeks later, all of a sudden we have gas that's hitting the palace and hit right next to your guy's hooch. And it ended up being CS gas. And so everybody was like, whatever, I've been to the gas chamber, that doesn't even bother me. But but it, you know, it's it's terrifying to think that you know had they found Sarin shells, we could have been sarengassed just as easily. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Yeah. And I and I don't remember when I the and I don't know if this was at the same time, but we got sent out on a mission where we they thought that they had a location of where some chemical weapons were, and that was north north of our AO. And we went out, it was a like it wasn't that far, but I remember it took us a minute to get out there. Um we didn't, I mean, I don't like we didn't find anything.

SPEAKER_04 48:50

Um but yeah. What else? I remember there was a uh a big shuffle between um one of the sergeants I think was with us, and it might have been other people that I don't know if it if this was before uh we got the three five folks or or afterwards, but I remember uh him being taken off, and I don't know if we went to Echo Company or Golf Company, but like the the line companies needed the bodies, right? So I remember that was like a a reshuffle that we did.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

I don't remember you saying I don't remember somebody, yeah, that that we lost somebody from weapons.

SPEAKER_04 49:46

No, no, no. I'm saying um one of the sergeants, uh it wasn't Escabo, but like somebody that we got um uh left to join uh one of the line companies. I don't know if it was like Echo or Golf. It was just like a reshuffle. I don't know if you recall.

SPEAKER_02 50:03

I don't remember this at all.

SPEAKER_00 50:04

What what was that guy's name that uh that Sakaki was talking about that didn't want to go outside the wire? I wonder if that's what you're talking about. Because that guy did, he stayed in the CO COC for a while, and then they I don't know where they sent him.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Yeah, maybe that was him's um yeah, it's like yeah. Maybe I you you might be because there was there was there was more guys that had HQ at the beginning than what happened at the end due to combat losses and other reshuffling processes, right? Uh I think I know there was at least one, if not two.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

That's good memory. I can't remember because I don't I I don't remember that at all. But I that doesn't surprise me because we did have uh we did have this this particular individual who I never talked to. Uh he got relocated because he did not want to go outside the wire with weapons company.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

So oh gotcha. Because I remember like after he left Sledgehammer, like we would still do our our our missions, and like he would be like out doing his thing with uh like this other line company.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

So oh crazy, interesting. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

I I'm I don't remember this at all, so that's uh that's that's I'll be definitely trying to figure that one out.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

Yeah, I don't want to drop any names, but yeah, we can exchange details afterwards, yeah.

Coming Home Handover And Missing Records

SPEAKER_02 51:37

Perfect, good. Yeah, please do what else?

SPEAKER_04 51:42

Um, I mean, other than that, uh I remember coming back from Iraq, uh just being so happy, you know, just being on the bus back in uh oceanside, and for the life of me, I cannot remember like where the closest in and out was at. Uh just because I was like so focused on you know Romadi and whatnot. Um before that.

SPEAKER_02 52:16

Did you have people meet you on the parade deck or you're I got back or don't remember, uh probably not.

unknown 52:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:25

But you know, I had a keg of beer, so no what else do you need, you know?

SPEAKER_02 52:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 52:33

But um I remember that that uh the process of uh of winding down, I don't think it was quite uh as successful as it as it could have been. Um they did send us to this other base. I think we were able to like play video games or whatever for a few days before we junction city.

SPEAKER_02 52:55

Yeah, we went over to Junction City for well, you you all went there is there was a stay behind unit that Nihiland and I and several other people were a part of, but you guys went over for like two weeks or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

It was maybe maybe nine days, uh, because we were doing left seat right seats for what five days, and then we were over at Junction City for two, three days before we left, so it wasn't long.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

It was pretty short.

SPEAKER_04 53:21

Yeah, I do remember um I think he was a sergeant from 2-5, the guy that was that was the vehicle commander that was gonna take over. And I remember shooting the shit with him, and then uh going through all of this, uh, going back to the states and meeting up, meeting up with him maybe like four or five weeks after we had you know spoken in Ramadi. Oh yeah, and it was like super weird because like what is he doing, what is he doing back, you know? And I remember like he was like in a state of shock. He just kind of like waved his hand and like went back into his room. So I didn't want to push too much as to what happened, but like after listening to all the other podcasts, you know, they just I don't know, maybe a lack of uh, you know, it's it's crazy to me now that I that I listen to this podcast, like we were g giving these people instructions as to what to do, and like I can't comprehend why they didn't, you know, follow our directions. I'm sure casual casualties would have been a whole lot less than than what they were, you know.

SPEAKER_00 54:41

Yeah, I I don't had I was just gonna say I don't have a good I don't have a good explanation for you other than I know their leadership was telling them that uh we were over aggressive and that they should not follow our example. I think they learned pretty quickly that that was not necessarily the case. And it sounds like they changed uh after about six weeks after we left, that they became also doing a lot of the same things we were doing. They literally opened up the 2-4 playbook and started running it.

SPEAKER_02 55:13

But there was probably then it wasn't it wasn't much after that that then they divided up the city because then they realized that it was like a battalion can't well, other than 2-4, but a battalion can't handle Golden Ramadi by itself.

SPEAKER_00 55:29

Right. So I think it's also another thing to uh even now, 20 years later, how many things are written about 2-4 in 2004? Very little. How many official things are written? Also fairly little. I mean, there's a few major publications, but not a significant chunk compared to the number of publications that are on, say, Fallujah or uh Marja, to use an Afghanistan example.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Or hell, even Ramadi OSEX, right?

SPEAKER_00 55:59

Right, right. There were just more things written, and so it sounds like the official record keeping and and passing of Word hadn't really been implemented yet. It was just so early in the war we didn't realize that this sort of institutional memory was not being used.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

Yeah, that makes sense. And I do remember um uh chatting with To Williger, like one of our senior NCOs. That was pretty cool. Yeah, I I think he he was saying he he joined the reserves and kind of did like a backdoor type of thing.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

Well, he if I remember that if I remember that story correctly, what had happened is that they had instituted some stricter uh tattoo uh bands, and so he couldn't get in to the active, he couldn't reactivate normally, and so the reserves had a a lower threshold of uh letting him in for his the sleeves that he had, and then he activated immediately on the back side of that is my memory of that story.

SPEAKER_00 57:04

Yep, that's what he told me too.

SPEAKER_02 57:07

Yeah, he was a good dude. I I hope he's doing well. Yeah, I haven't I haven't heard from him for a long time. Um I've said this before, I I am still friends pretty cl with um Mark shot pretty closely, and he ended up going to a reserve unit so he could then deploy later um because he wanted to get he wanted to get in on the action. So there's a couple of our senior guys that I think did that. Wow, that's cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 57:38

Yeah, but uh what else? Oh yeah, that reminds me. Um was it Leighton that got meritory promoted to sergeant while we were in Irene? He didn't, yeah. Yeah, I remember he he was very very good about um doing his things. I think he's uh he's uh E9 uh now, right? He retired.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

Oh he retired. Yeah, yeah. No, he's uh doing well.

SPEAKER_04 58:14

One of the questions asks, um, what does your service mean to you today?

SPEAKER_00 58:20

Yeah, good. That's exactly what I was just gonna ask you. So that works out perfectly. Yeah, 20 years later, man. How do you make sense of it all?

SPEAKER_04 58:28

I mean, if you asked me, did we improve the situation in Iraq? Uh I don't know. Did we make it worse or better? I don't know. I mean at the time I was just following certain orders, uh being told what to do. Um it's very difficult uh without getting political about the reasons why we went in, sure. Uh, you know, the reasons why we did what we did. It it might just be my take, but it seems like like wars happen every 10 years, you know, for for one reason or another or another. Um now me having kids, like uh I think the question for me would be um if I um if I would be happy with them joining uh the military. And uh I think I I am not opposed to it. Um, but I I would maybe say uh, you know, uh do something that's that's more that you can use uh like a transferable skill. So maybe like, you know, don't focus so much on on the O3 life. I mean it's it's great, but maybe maybe do some of the things that that can more easy easier uh to transfer over. Um it's it's hard to say if if we did improvements to Iraq or not. Um I'm not gonna uh say the what I went through wasn't uh was was good or bad. I think I think we did what we were told. Um I think um, you know, some of the times when I went out on those missions, it wasn't just because uh I was thinking about myself, you know, I I was thinking about McLeod, I was thinking about Rocha and all the guys in in the platoon. Uh I wanted to see them come back and and do bigger and better things. So um I'm just glad I came back. And then actually when I came back, it it was a shock because um, especially when I started going to school, like some of the students were like, hey guys, we we have a hero. And I'm like, well, that's bullshit. I'm no hero, you know. Um I'm I'm I'm lucky to to come back. I I think I want to say that the heroes were you know the savages, the the the people that you know didn't come back. So I thought that was bullshit, but you know, uh, I think that that's another reason why we do what we do, right? Just because people back in the states have that freedom of speech and they they can do and say whatever, whatever they want. So true.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:33

I hear you.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:35

That's good, man. Anything you want to cover that we didn't cover, or you feel like that wraps it up, man?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:41

I think, yeah, I mean, like I said, uh, I don't think I anything else comes to mind. I just because after I came back from from Baghdad, I just it's just like a big blur. Like I I know we did different missions, but I I can't remember exactly what we did, what we did. So um it's all right. Maybe I'll I'll think about it and maybe we'll have another session.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

Hey, and that's 100%. What's funny is we said that to everybody. We're like, we're happy to have people on, second, third. I'm sure at some point we'll have somebody on the fourth time, right? And just keep kind of getting little pieces of the pie as as people's memory gets jogged.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:25

Sounds good, but uh, I want to thank you both for doing what you're doing. I think it's it's great. Uh it's you know, it's really awesome to like be able to talk about some of the experiences that we went through, just because it's it's very difficult to to talk to somebody outside the Marine Corps and outside of 2-4 that has an experience or what we have experienced is because I I feel like uh some of the stares I get is just like, what? Right, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:56

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

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