Constant Combat

Smokepits and Scuttlebutt - Benjamin Thibeault (part 1 of 2)

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Ben Thibeault’s story starts fast, and it only gets faster from there. He describes what it’s like to arrive in Iraq as a new Marine with big briefings, blurry timelines, and the sense that you’re stepping into something nobody can fully explain until it’s already happening. Ben talks about how he kept steady at Hurricane Point, then the warning signs of trouble, and first big fights that make the mission feel 'real'. 

• arriving to the fleet through Hawaii and Pendleton chaos 
• joining the Marine Corps at 22 after a wake-up call 
• March Air Force Base training
• Kuwait as the first reality check
• first impressions of Ramadi
• sandbags, smoke pit culture and why cigarettes became currency 
• how he killed time in the hooch
• care packages
• “absence of the normal” and the city going quiet before April 6 
• convoy roles, rear security, and fragmented awareness
• April 7 alleyway security under small arms fire and warning shots 
• IED strikes, evacuations and the shift from abstract risk to personal loss 


if you like what you've heard this is a multi part episode make sure you listen to the rest of the story 


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Meet Benjamin Thibault

SPEAKER_01

All right, man. Let's tell everybody who you are.

SPEAKER_02

Uh my name is uh Benjamin Thibault, and I was with uh I think it was I'd say PFC at the time of 2004 with uh weapons company 81's Marin Maker. Um yeah, first section. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. Well wherever you want to start, if you so just uh yeah, we we had a I I think Cackley I was talking, I was listening to his and starting off, and yeah, you're going to Hawaii. So we went to Hawaii for three days, and then lo and behold, you're going to Iraq. So I I don't really really remember what led up to that whole thing, but I just remember we were there for like three days and you know and shipped us over to uh Pendleton. It's like you got a month and then you're you're off. So that was the I didn't really know how to process it. I just was just, you know, listening and you know, biding by you know the the the hazing that went through um when we first arrived at both Hawaii and Pendleton. So just do what that was supposed to do, and that's what I did. And we did a lot of gear checks. And that's funny.

SPEAKER_01

I was gonna say you're both you're both the most lucky and unlucky Marines that I know of. You got hazed twice, yeah, but you got to see Hawaii for three days.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was uh well, it's funny because we we got after after so y and gagger, we they said yeah, Hawaii. So we went out to Hawaii, and for some reason, like we just did not wear our alphas. And it was like me, Watkins, uh I think Forky, Cackly, List, all them. We just weren't in our alphas at the airport. We get to the airport and they are just ripping off some new one in the airport. And I'm like, what are we? And then yeah, like, why aren't you in your alphas? Like, I, you know, no one told us anything specific, which is bizarre. And then after that, we get to Hawaii, and like every hour on the hour is like formation, formation. So yeah, they were pretty, they were pretty happy to see new Marines there, and then they find out we're leaving. So they were pretty bummed about that. But yeah, got us an introduction to the fleet pretty quick.

SPEAKER_00

That sounds like that sounds like a perfect two four story too. Just being upside down backwards, like what the fuck? Yeah,

Hawaii Stopover And Fleet Hazing

SPEAKER_00

so yeah. Also, I I find it interesting that you pronounce hugging as hazing. That's a really interesting that uh that you got to hugging. Because as far as I'm concerned, all we did was just give you guys nothing but warm welcome. Say welcome aboard.

SPEAKER_02

Right. You guys are paying the Hawaiian, the Hawaiian Marines is like they'd never seen a new recruit or a new new member of the fleet. So they're just like, oh, look at new meat. So yeah, all those stories of new meat were true.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Prison rules, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, prison rules, that's right.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that's a pen. I was just gonna say, so so uh remind me, so that timeline gets you to Pendleton in time for March Air Force Base, correct?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we so I was we came in like two after Accles and Acres came. We were like two weeks ahead of them. So we had already been to the been to Pendleton for a couple weeks prior to us actually going, I believe, to March Air Force Base. Um, I think they were just dropped there hence in the midst of our training. Um, so we actually had a tiny bit of a workup. I think we had a BZO or a weapon a week before, something like that. So yeah, it was it was quick, man. It's just a lot of very very hazy and very uh I just there's a lot I just do not remember. I just remember getting there, doing gear checks and BZOing and then March Air Force Base, and then we were then we're gone. So because you did boot camp right after high school, right? No, I was I did four years off. Um big reason why I went to boot camp is I took four years off after high school and wasn't really finding what I needed to do.

SPEAKER_00

So also you were another older the Marine. That's interesting.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they call me the old man of the Marine Corps. Yeah, uh I didn't remember that.

SPEAKER_01

That's funny, that's exactly what I did too. I joined at twenty I joined at 22 as well. So it uh yeah, me and me and you are very similar. Yeah, I I I was doing fine professionally, but I just wasn't enjoying the way things were going and whatever. But yeah, that's uh that does make a it's a weird perspective when you're older than literally everybody else in boot camp. Well, not everybody, but almost everybody in boot camp and SOI. And you can buy beer, so yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that got me in trouble once, so uh we'll say that's we'll save that story for later. But um, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_00

That's well just just I find that very interesting. I there's been a couple quite a few guys that were older coming into it all. I mean, I obviously 9-11, I'm sure, yeah helped shift that um pretty dramatically, but that's that's I wonder if that's some of our success for weapons companies that not only did we have some older people, but like literally older, right? Maturity, as we all know, helps out a little bit.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I just I I graduated high school and I I literally had nothing, nothing. I work in a restaurant and just a lot of drinking, a lot of doing stupid shit. And yeah, I got into a bad accident, like my car two weeks about two months before actually left. So that was like kind of my call to action. Like, all right, I gotta get out of here because I just it's not gonna go good. So nothing like on the deathbed or anything, but I had to I had to make a decision. And my uh my cousin was a MP down in Cherry Point. Um, so I visited him, just fell in love with it, you know, and like I gotta do this. This is makes most sense. And went to the recruiter, and sure enough, I had to lose a bunch of weight and was pretty overweight when I joined. So that was that was not easy. That was uh that was a wake-up call, so yeah, so that took a process, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00

All right, well, well, let's go back to uh the training piece, though. Uh do you have any memories of March Air Force Base?

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I just remember I know being vaguely very, very, very I mean, I remember like the actual outline of March Air Force Base, but as far as like what we did uh specifically day to day, I don't even maybe what three days were there, two days. It was just so like this stuff was coming at so quickly that to be specific about certain

Enlisting Later And Finding Direction

SPEAKER_02

things, and unless you guys jog my memory, I mean that might help, but I thought we were there.

SPEAKER_00

I wasn't. I didn't. Oh, you weren't there one? No, I wasn't. No, I was doing other training. That's right. So uh I was at Arabic school at that point. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_01

So that maybe not jog your memory, but just to remind you, um, they had it set up to where we were sleeping in a modified forward operating base, more or less. We had a couple of Humvees just so we could do some what vehicle mounted posts, but we really didn't patrol with the vehicles in any way. We did mostly foot patrol type stuff, and they had a ton of role players that were playing local populace, right? As well as not just local populace, but also local Iraqi police or fake Iraqi police. Uh, and then they initially we just didn't like a bunch of scenarios, shoot, no shoot, how to run a vehicle checkpoint, right? How to run it, how to run a gate, which I don't I don't know. I mean, that was great, but I don't know how useful it was.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_01

Uh and then a lot of patrolling techniques, satellite patrolling, uh, how to evacuate a casualty in the middle of an urban environment, what's your best strategy, the things like that. A lot of it was it was good initial mental fuel for what we did later, but I I would agree that none of it really strikes me. Like, I don't remember any great memories from March Air Force Base. It was like, okay, this is what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

unknown

Right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, that's that's you nailed it, man. That was uh that's a good good interpretation of it. But yeah, I don't remember I remember everything else after March Air Force Base as far as like only boots on the ground and Ramadi and you know even Kuwait. But yeah, the March Air Force is kind of a blur. Cool, it's I'll take your word for it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we but we went we went back to Pendleton and then we came back to March Air Force Base to fly out. So uh kind of what do you what do you what do you remember from that?

SPEAKER_02

Uh again, I remember I just remember the the the plane ride over. I think Ackles mentioned that too. Um, but yeah, that was uh that was a thing. Um getting on that plane for 17 hours, I believe, and just I remember specifically having to sit there, and obviously no, you know, an electronics or anything except for your disc man, and then having to go to the bathroom and you have to step up and then walk across the the middle way and just people throwing stuff at you, especially the new guys, you know. Good luck walking through that, you know, herd. So we got yeah, we got we got we got we got toughened up pretty quick. So yeah, that's what I remember specifically walking to the bathroom, and that was only one bathroom on the plane, so that was uh that was an event and trying to sleep and it just didn't work. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So coming into so coming into Kuwait, uh we were there for a little bit. Do you have any specific memories of Kuwait?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, me and Acres were on a lot of uh firewatch. I remember that specifically. So yeah, we did a lot of firewatch. Um and then obviously when the training, um, like the you know, just the patrols here and there. Um, but like I said, nothing, it just there's it's so vague. And then I remember listening to Dobb talk, and I uh he jogged me. I'm like, yeah, we did have a suicide over there right as we left. And I'm like, that's you know, kind of welcomed. Well yeah, that's just things like that were the only thing kind of like you know, just doing the basic training, and then that that really resonated with me. And I just was like, that's that wow, like you know, that the shit's real now. So yeah, that's kind of where my mind was. And after that happened, I was like, you know, then we're going. So get on the 131, I believe. And then we flew from Kuwait to um Al-Assad, I think. And I was on the first, I wasn't on the advanced 40, but we went all together uh for the majority of us. But okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you flew with Garcia and all those guys that uh that flew into Al Assad and then got picked up, I believe, by seven tons is what uh what other people have said.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, on seven tons, and um yeah, we went right over to Hurricane Point. So the drive was the drive there, just didn't it was just it was surreal. It's like you know, I've never obviously been in this part of the world, and it's just it's hard to imagine where we're going. Um it just seemed like we were just doing another training off now when you think about it. But yeah, you know, Hurricane Point, here we come. So got there unscathed, which was nice. Um, and we just kind of the advance party was already there, and they were saying, Oh, yeah, we're you know, motors are coming in, blah, blah, blah. This is what you got to do when this happens, and I'm like, okay. So we're just kind of day by day, and then yeah, so we get there and set up and kind of yeah. Basically what my my my recollection of that getting there. Um, everything else is just kind of like I said, hazy in that regard. But I remember I remember taking the seven tons there, and that that really kind of opened, you know, set up, you know, what was to come.

SPEAKER_01

So any first impressions of either Ramadi, the city, or uh, or the people that you saw or or Hurricane Point?

SPEAKER_02

Uh we came at night, so there wasn't obviously just the lights of the city. Um, but just driving through, you know, the smell, this the distinct smell of you know, is it burning trash or just whatever. Um, I'm you guys all know that smell. Um, and just getting into Hurricane Point and just going to the hooch. Um,

March Air Force Base Workup

SPEAKER_02

yeah, there's really specifics at that point now, just you know, seeing everyone and then, you know, day to day and just waiting until you know what was our mission was called. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So if I I can't remember who had brought it up before, but uh I didn't really think about the working parties that we would have put the junior guys on to get things uh ship shape over there. Do you have were you put on any of those early ones to to get our uh area beautified?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was sandbag duty, man. That was uh that was it. That was it just filled sandbags relentlessly. Um I think it was just basically Regelsberger's like, yeah, build the smoke pit. All right, so just build, you know, I wasn't like intentionally, oh we're gonna fortify the the area now. It's like we're gonna build a smoke pit, so we just need you to fill sandbags and then whatever's left, we'll just put on the burn. So yeah. Smoke pit was a big that was a that was kind of a must-do in the beginning, which we needed to build that more than anything else. So I remember time doing that. Um priorities, man. Yeah, absolutely. And it helped, and that was like that smoke pit was uh the beacon of hope every time we come back to Hurricane Point. That smoke pit was really, you know, where we'd all congregate and tell stories and whatnot, and you know, smoked a lot of cigarettes, which I was that's my my next question.

SPEAKER_01

Did you smoke? Did you smoke back in that day?

SPEAKER_02

I did. I did a I we I was a smoker before, um, and then just kind of and I didn't really smoke, obviously at boot camp and obvious in training, but once we got to the fleet, it was kind of hesitant, and then we get to Iraq, and then everybody, you know, who smoked were smoking, so it became like a rite of passage. Um, yeah. So yeah, I smoked quite heavily. And those good Haji cigarettes too. They had the the Miami booties, and uh, those were they tasted good at the time, but I don't think I would ever ever want to have that again.

SPEAKER_00

But no, I mean, I I I disagree. Those did not taste good at the time either. Oh my god, that's I'm just psyching myself up, man. I know they taste like shit. They were they it burned worse than taking a straight shot of Everclare.

SPEAKER_02

It's true. Yeah, I was just trying to make myself feel better. Yeah, having the fither. No, that was those Miamis were were no joke. But they were they were always available when you went on you know on a patrol. They were you could find them at any Haji shop. It's like, oh yeah, 10 cents a pack. It's like, all right, I'll take it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So you built filled a lot of sandbags. Did you uh what I remember of the working parties, there was a lot of trash, ton of trash just buried in and around the hooches. So we ended up making like a garbage mountain out between where we were living and the north bridge, and then lighting that on fire, and it burnt for I don't even know, 10 days or whatever the hell it was. It burnt forever. Uh, I'm sure we all will get service-connected lung cancer claims just specifically for that fire, not for the cigarettes that you smoked, it will be for because of that trash fire, right? And then we we had uh some makeshift roofs and we started getting vehicles. When did you kind of get assigned to a to a team or a squad or anything? How did you know where where to be and who to be with?

SPEAKER_02

So now this is where the memory kicks in. So we we were assigned, um, I think it was my first truck, it was McNaughton. I want to say Layton was the my the driver. And then in the back, it was like me, Bowers, I want to say Lelong. And I remember that for the first time going out a couple times, um we would just drive relentlessly through the city without any any SOP, it seems, just driving. And then McNaughton, I don't know if you ever get behind it, get behind a wheel with him, but he just would drive like he's just NASCAR Indian. He's just flying through, you know, wherever he needed to go. And we're seeing all the you know the cops like burning trash and just it just seemed like we were making stuff up to do it, I guess, at the time because we were just driving out there for no apparent reason, or at least they didn't tell us what we were doing, just make sure that we're being vigilant and whatnot. So yeah, um, that was my first truck I remember specifically um before we actually before April 6th. That was kind of what we that was our intent. And I remember one night, I think Dobb had told us, right, we're going out, we get out the gate, like with I think maybe 10 feet, 10 yards, 10 meters maybe. And all of a sudden the sandstorm just kicks in. I mean, it was like bad. It's like the only one I really remember, and it just you couldn't see. So he's like, we got to turn back around. And then we get back to the I think all the maple tunes and uh side channel were back there, and the hoochas were just you know, the the the tarps are coming off, and we were all having to do like a huge working part to get everybody to get those tarps back on. Stuff was flying everywhere. Um, but yeah, it was it was that was a bad sandstorm, and we just we had to you know come back. I don't know how quickly into it was, but I remember we still had the the tarps on the on the tops of the of the hooches, so that made for some interesting times when we got back, but yeah, it was bad.

SPEAKER_00

I forgot about that, but I do remember because I think it was yours that it ripped off of. Yeah, Se Fuentes is stuff from Adrian. Yeah, we got I think I think R stayed on, but I remember one at least two of them. I think it might have been the empty one too that the roof got ripped off.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I wonder if that's one of the reasons why we really pushed to get the ceilings put on. It wouldn't have been much past that that we got the ceiling, the roof panels put on.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think I don't know if the mortars had anything to do with, but yeah, it was it was definitely pretty quickly after that we had uh the metal or the roofs, the permanent roofs as opposed to the tarps, but it didn't seem like a good idea to have tarps, but whatever.

SPEAKER_01

Those those little two-inch metal panels wouldn't have done much against the mortars either.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah the false sense of illusion. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, and then it was just you know, kind of I don't it was it's weird because I was never wanting to, you know, get into this shit. That was that was never my thing. It's just like I I at one point it being so new, I'm like, you know, we were told to get over there. I remember talking to Rudy one day because I was you know, my my my bunk was right kind of right next to him, like, man, when are we gonna when are we gonna see anything? What what is it what are we doing here? And then he's just kind of assuring me, he's like, Yeah, you know, we're just you know, we're just here doing what we gotta do. And I'm sure eventually we're gonna get into some stuff, but you know, no one could, you know, no one could really picture what was gonna happen. But yeah, it was just kind of a wait and see kind of thing. That's how I took it. And you know, then shit got real pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01

Well, that's uh that's actually a good point. How much did you understand about I mean, because we got briefs, right? But how much did you really understand about the overall mission that we were initially assigned?

SPEAKER_02

Um, so when it was so when I was in uh so y, we they that's when they had got Saddam, you know, halfway through my training,

Long Flight And Kuwait Wake Up

SPEAKER_02

and like, uh cool, this is great. You know, now I guess Iraq's no longer a threat. Then I come to find out when we get to Hawaii, they're like, you guys are going to Iraq. And I'm like, what the hell are we going to Iraq for? And you know, they they kind of you know let us know we're gonna be doing like some stability operations, you know, we're gonna make sure that they're gonna be able to govern themselves. And so yeah, um, kind of like you're just gonna be there as a beacon of hope and beacon of peace, um, per se. And then that's kind of how they how they made it sound, and we're just gonna be there to you know help the people that you know re-govern themselves or whatnot. So yeah, it's really funny.

SPEAKER_01

If if I was ever gonna send a beacon of hope or beacon of peace, I would not send infantry marines. No, I agree.

SPEAKER_02

I agree. That would not be my first choice, right? No, so it was uh yeah, so it just didn't it didn't really register resonate with me, like what our actual mission was, and then once we get into the training, and then they kind of you know let us know this is what's gonna happen. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, you kind of hit on you hit on some of those early missions. Uh we just to frame it in your mind, we got there March 6th, and then the the beginning of the the biggest chunk of the first battle of Ramadi was April 6th. So there's about 30 days in there, and there's a few things that happened, and a coup a couple of them might uh jog your memory. We were there about a week, and that's when uh golf company McPherson had his uh injury to his jaw, or to his jaw off from an IED. And then not long after that, about a week after that, was the bike IED that hit sledgehammer and uh Worth was wounded.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So now again, you were brand new, so maybe you didn't have a whole lot of interactions with Worth, but he was part of your platoon, so I imagine that was unusual.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

And then the first big uh event that I've got for your platoon, just specifically because I know Hodges was in your uh was in Rainmaker as well, uh, was Lance Corporal Dang from Fox Company was killed by an RPG, and you guys were sent out as QRF. Right. Any memories of any any memories of any of that early stuff?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so actually it's but the whole of that whole thing. My really good friend of mine, he's really my wife and his wife, um Dean Kugliata. He was, I believe he was his driver, um, or he was a I can't remember what uh but yeah, he was in the he was in the truck with Dang and he was sent home early. So that was kind of uh, you know, hearing stories from him when we got back, what what what he'll talk about. But yeah, um, yeah, just being in the QRF. Um nothing specific about that moment, but uh yeah, it like I said, it's those first 30 days are just so it just it just seems so, and especially 22 years later, and even hearing what you guys are talking about now, it's just like wow, I this is it's it's like kind of coming back. But once we get closer to like the fifth or the sixth, that's when stuff really starts getting okay. Now it's you know starting to get back. And but I'm not sure if I purposely block this stuff out or if it just doesn't, you know, just everything kind of rolled together so you know so quickly that you know, these specific moments, obviously when injury, you know, these injuries and it's just so much to take in and you know, and emotions are just pulling.

SPEAKER_00

And that's a hundred percent the case. I mean, so much of so much of it is just back to back. A lot of it just blends into one another because it all seems the same. And then also with being a new guy, you didn't have any frame of reference, you weren't making any decisions. There wasn't these bullet points that were coming across being like, okay, well, here's here's here's when this was shifted to here or whatever. Right. But at this time, to the best of your memory, were you you're performing a dismount function right from the back of the truck and stuff like that. So that was right.

SPEAKER_02

And we were the four we were the second to last. We were in um so I I think at that point Hodges was my uh my team leader at that point, and then um who's my driver? It wasn't Calderon yet. I think it was still McNaughton. And then when when Hurley and home got hurt, um we switched over to Calderon, became my driver, and then Aponte became my team leader. So we got shifted around quite a bit. So that's that' That's where everything kind of becomes what events or what what time during the deployment did you have this team leader? Because we had to make some, you know, on the fly, they had to change the trucks around quite a bit due to the injured, you know, due to the casualties and the evacs and whatnot. So that was, you know, but at the same time, and I was gonna make this a point of reference that none of this could be done without the the junior leadership there, you know, sergeants, corporals, lieutenants. It was just it just seemed like, and even like the you know, Lance Corporal squad leaders, just the constant the constant just adapting. And that just I I think that was it's un unheard of, I guess. And just because no one knew we never no one, regardless of how much training you had, we never you can't prepare for anything like that. And just to call that, I mean just quickly the you know, like how we adapted and just you know, you gotta go here just you know, on the fly, not not being over zealous and just always taking into account the younger Marines um or junior Marines, you know that they, you

Arrival In Ramadi And Sandbag Days

SPEAKER_02

know, it was incredible. I just I was just blown away by that leadership, and it just you know made you believe that everything was gonna be whatever if it wasn't good, but it it made you feel like it was always gonna be good, and they always had your back and whatnot. So I mean it was a huge reason why we were successful, in my opinion, is that you know junior leadership.

SPEAKER_01

I'll agree with that, especially now. Uh this is not my expertise. I would lean over to Blake, but as far as my understanding of the way a mortar platoon is meant to be organized, almost everybody was performing a task builder job that was one to two ranks above what they actually were.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And so it it you know, it's supposed to be like a gunnery sergeant as your platoon sergeant. Like it's not, you know, and it was it's you had Sergeant Garcia, right? So Leighton, yeah. Yeah, and Leighton, yeah, who picked up Sergeant, I think, when you got there, right? Or shortly there before.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And then Hodges Hodges was a Lance Corps, but you know, you know, Hodges, like he was like he got thrusted into like you know, you know, almost like Sergeant Major in a way, but no, he was uh he made a name.

SPEAKER_00

He was a seventh award Lance Corporal.

SPEAKER_02

He quickly made a name for himself amongst us, and it was like, you know, he was you know, he he put us where we needed to be, and um, you know, it was it was he added a lot of uh needed um hilarity and just you know, just you know, his stories, although may not have always been 100% accurate, he did add a lot of humor and putting us at ease back in the hooch. So he was definitely uh a sight for sore eyes at times. But yeah, it was uh just in general, the the camaraderie and the the you know inside the hooch was just it was like you even the the day we would have sucked being out there for 12 hours, or you come back and it's like nothing happened. It was beers bit. Everyone just had always had a seemingly positive attitude. Um, even when shit hit the fan, come back to that hooch, go to the smoke pit, and you know, get ready for the next day. It was just it it made things a lot easier. Um, having that because everyone's everyone's new, no one's been there before, no one has been in this environment before. So everyone's kind of almost like an equal in a way. Um so that really helped out, especially the junior Marines, in my opinion, that you know, it just seemed so much so much more seamless and um not have to worry about you know disappointing people just because you know there's there's no way you could because everyone's there doing their thing and they had to do it.

SPEAKER_00

So being back in the hooch, like you you're you're kind of touching on this. I'm curious to go a little bit further with that of uh how did you occupy your time? I mean, obviously the smoke pit was a was a uh a place that a lot of people spent a lot of time, but some people played cards, read, watched movies. You know, what was how did you while away your time?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, movies were a big part. I think I got a DVD player, like I can't remember if I want to sell from home, but yeah, it was movies and then all the that shop. I think it was at the front of our uh front of Hurricane Point where the guy came in and we sell like bootleg movies and you know, you know, the good stuff. Um, but yeah, we just spend time watching movies and you know, music was big. And you all we have is the disc man, so we really didn't, you know, you had no iPod or anything like that. So you had to kind of get carry around like 50 CDs with you, and you know, so that was kind of uh, you know, whatnot. And then it's you know, like I said, yeah, movies are a big thing, just hanging out and whatnot. But yeah, it's kind of taking your mind off what was going on outside the outside the wire and inside was just kind of like uh didn't it didn't exist in a way, so it kind of kept that separate. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Did you have a movie that you kept going back to as your uh as your safety movie? Or uh did you uh just enjoy just trying to consume as many as you could?

SPEAKER_02

Just as many as I don't, yeah, nothing specific. Uh but I remember like the the front of the hooch was it was at the commish. They were watching the commish for yeah, I think it seemed like the entire time. It was like all all Rainmaker would get around like Hersher and Garcia and just watch the commish for the entire it seemed like the entire every sh every time, every time they were watching a movie or a show was it was that going through each season as best I can. But yeah, whatever whatever came new, I mean what, 2003? I can't remember what was out at that point, but yeah, I think you know, maybe Euro Trip or you know, American Pie or whatnot. But yeah, some stupid movies just to kind of take your mind off a lot of the other shit. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know why that made me think of it, but uh I think um one of the first times that I ever had to like close my eyes and plug my ears um while at a movie theater because I was laughing so hard I was afraid I was gonna throw up is that uh Team America came out like something like two weeks after we got back from Iraq. And I remembered going with a bunch of guys and uh just absolutely like I was it it I like I almost had to leave because I was laughing so hard.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it was yeah, yeah. It was actually I was actually on here the I was like flipping through and I was like it showed up, I haven't seen this movie. I was like, when you reference that yeah, it's been a long, long time. Yeah, that was a good movie. Great movie. Yeah, good shit. Yeah, I think I still remember the theme song too. It was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01

You mentioned care packages a little bit.

SPEAKER_02

Did you keep in contact with anybody at home or were you married or or who's um I had a I had a girlfriend I met prior or we started dating like pretty quickly before I left, um, and then my mom was pretty um big part of that. So she, you know, sent whatever I needed at the time. Um yeah, so it was that was that was nice. It kept it seemed like the mail was pretty relatively, you know, they were on top of it, so got what I needed when I needed it. So it didn't seem like there

Smoke Pit Culture And Daily Routine

SPEAKER_02

was unless you guys remember, was there ever like maybe a couple of mail truck mail trucks got hit, you know, on the way to, but as far as you know, specific mail, I think I got pretty much everything I needed at any any time, or my obviously when mail was moving at a snail space back then, but didn't seem like too many snags happened.

SPEAKER_00

The early part of the war they hadn't figured out the uh mail logistics issue, and so those packages were delayed by like a couple weeks. Right. But then they straightened it out. Um yeah, uh those care packages, I mean, they sustained us. Um, there was a couple times that the chow chow wasn't coming through, and so we were eating out of the out of the our out of the care packages more than from than not. Did you have anything specific that you were always asking for? I was always asking for the big giant body wipes, yeah, you know, instead of just little baby wipes that like like my mom was buying the ones that you would get at like uh retirement homes and stuff like that. And worth this weight in gold, right?

SPEAKER_02

And I remember like the uh, you know, people must obviously go to Iraq in the middle of the summer, it's hot as hell at nighttime and it got cold. So we were doing those roof OPs or just you know, the fire, and just when we're down there in the house and we'd occupy the house and we're on a roof like four hours. I'm like, you know, my mom, can you you know send me some you know, gloves or whatnot? And she just I don't think she had a clue what I meant by gloves. So I'm like, I need something really warm and whatnot. So she sent me like gloves without any fingers, like you know, oven mitts almost. I'm like I specifically, I'm like, I need I need like really warm. And at that point, there's no like Amazon or whatnot. So we're having she's having to scrounge for some stuff at a store and didn't really make sense of what I needed. So she sends me these oven mitts, and I'm like, yeah, they're warm, but I mean there's I can't really hold a gun, uh rifle with that. But yeah, it was uh care, yeah. Whatever, whatever anything uh obviously with a lot of uh any camel lights I could grab my hands on as opposed to anything those those nice to get stateside cigarettes, which was and you know, candy, whatnot, but yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

That girlfriend wait that girlfriend wait for you to come home? She did, and then we didn't work out, so we uh yeah, so she's not she's not who I ended up with. So my wife and I I was I know you were uh close with home um for a while, and then actually Dan was the reason why uh a big reason why me and my wife are together now. So we he introduced us.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, right.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so that was back when we got back, and he was I was uh I got in trouble, so I was restricted to the barracks for a couple weeks, and then she she had she had known Dan, uh Mikhail and uh Mike, and then she came over, and that's where I met. So we've been together ever since. So kind of our small, you know, that's right. That's where I met her through Dano. So it's kind of cool. I love it. That's cool, man. I haven't talked to Dan in a long time, but I know he uh I know he's doing he seems like doing pretty well. Um, so yeah, um that's my yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, last we talked, he seems like he's doing all right down there in New Mexico.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Well, we've kind of we've kind of like uh touched on it a couple times, and seems like none of those early missions really strike your memory, but I'll I'll frame it out for you just a little bit of of like big things that happened. March 26th was kind of when we started hearing it over the call to prayer that the mosques were calling for the citizens to fight Americans. And then as far as net like nation, uh Iraq nation news, uh the 31st was when the Blackwater contractors were killed and uh and hung from the bridge in Fallujah. And uh April 1st was when the the command element got heavy ambushed and uh with sledgehammer, and they got into some pretty heavy contact, chased a bunch of guys down through some alleys, and and actually got into a pretty good gunfight right then. Right after that was the first weapons company casualty, which was in uh my platoon that was uh PFC Morris. He was killed by an RPG, got hit on the fourth and died on the morning of the fifth. And then on that same day, on April 4th, in uh Soder City uh in Baghdad, that was when the army had the huge eruption. Basically, that was the biggest first like head-to-head battle, thousands versus thousands, and and things started happening. And Operation Vigilant Resolve kicked off uh shortly thereafter, on late the fourth, early the fifth in Fallujah. And then April 6th came and everything started for us. So that'll lead in right into your right into your part, sir.

SPEAKER_02

Where when I and I I gotta say, I can't, I don't remember if if it was just rain, Mick. I don't know if such hammer is part of it either, but I want to say on the 5th is when we had to go deploy the snipers. We were part of that mission to send. I don't, I think we're on day task or something. So they wanted us to get the snipers out. Um, I wanna, it was either the fourth or fifth. I can't, I can't remember the exact date, but I just remember that the town was it was asleep, no one was out. And at that point, we had not been out uh of you know, out of out of the since you know, we would go out and do our missions and all, but there was always people out, you know, it was always the town. We just drive through that town, it was just you you couldn't literally drive because it was packed. But that specific day, taking those snipers out, I'm just like it just it just didn't seem obviously I'm not it's a you know I'm not Monday morning quarterback or no, but like it just didn't, there was a something in the air, just wouldn't it didn't seem right because I got no one, it was just dead. And then we put the snipers in, and the next day, um, I remember Dobbs flying into the hooch. It had it been like 11 a.m. It's like, you know, get the hell up, go, go. So we that we were on, I think day task, these uh the other platoons were QRF, so we were day task, and we were that's when we went to go, you know, assist golf company. But that that came like, you know, I I specifically remember him running in the hooch and be like, get the hell up, go, go, and we just get on the trucks and we're just that's it. Now we were out.

SPEAKER_01

It's funny. The the only thing I remember from March Air Force Base was this stupid phrase that one of the British colonels, or maybe

Mail Lifelines And Care Package Needs

SPEAKER_01

captains, I don't remember his rank. I think he was a colonel though. He kept saying during like the the sit-down briefs where we were supposed to be learning things about how to fight an insurgency, and he would always say presence of the abnormal, absence of the normal. And he said it like a thousand times, and it was like written on every slide and all that shit. That's true. And it's funny you say that because like the city being empty is like absence of the normal, like, oh shit, we're under attack. And he was like, Right, if you keep saying this over and over again, you'll notice it. And they're like, Yeah, that's that's very real. I don't know what to do about it.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Were you guys what were you what was what was you were map I was map two? That's right. Were you guys what was your what were you guys on on six? Were you guys QRF or yeah?

SPEAKER_01

We were QRF. Uh so the first ones out of the gate was map three. We were the and so they went south of the city and got engaged. We were second out, uh, went up to the north of the city and uh ended up surrounded up there, trying to get up to reinforce Echo Company. And then you guys were third out, I think. Or I mean basically we went out at the same time. I think we all drove drove out in one giant convoy at the same time. You guys went south and we went north.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Yeah, that was uh that was a thing, man. And it was like I would say April 6th, obviously, due to what you know, with Echo Company really kind of solidified where we were. But our being on the being in the last or the second to last truck and what the stuff that happened in the front, it's like we're in two different dimensions in a way, because the stuff that was going on in the front, we were just told takes take rear security, kind of, you know, so all that stuff that was happening in the front, I didn't even most of the time I couldn't even see it, so we had to kind of just go on go on comms back and forth. So our stuff really kicked off on for me specifically, it was the seventh. Okay. When we uh yeah, they had uh Dobbs first truck when the RPG came out, um, we're in the bat, but we actually ended up going down this alleyway, and Layton's like, you know, Tebow run across the street, you know, it's like the guys are shooting at us, and like he's just run across the street. So I run across the street, you know, guns pointed out, and then behind me, that's where kind of where we, you know, we stuck we took up our post, and then Calorone next to me. So we're just we're waving off guys that are coming toward us in cars, and it was yeah, it was a wild day. So I think the seventh more than the sixth for me personally was um uh more memory served better. Um, just where we were stuck down this alleyway for like seen like three or four hours.

SPEAKER_01

And um yeah, just go ahead and dig into that, man. That's interesting. What uh why were you running across the street? Were you running over the road?

SPEAKER_02

No, I was the one I was supposed to be the one posting up, obviously posting up to for security. But yeah, he's like, Yeah, Tebow go. Um so I went, posted up, and then you know, Hodges behind me, and then Garcia um kind of you know down that alleyway. So we're just basically the you know the outer court on me and you know, Calderon comes to comes sits right next to me, and we're just you know keeping people in the vehicles back. Um they were kind of coming, vehicles would kind of creep up, and as soon as we you know, they do the pop shots, you know, and then scare them off, then they turn around. But yeah, I didn't end up being like stuck down that alleyway for what two to three hours. Um we're in a kind of a fight, you know, the firefight with at least I want I don't know how many other guys are down the alley, but it seemed quite a long time. Um, and it it didn't seem like we were just pinned down. Um, so I don't I you know it just it was not fun. Let's just put it that way. And um well, we got out and we were able to, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So I guess very very specifically just thinking, I mean, you were there for three or four hours. Were you moving forward or were you just really securing an area and waiting?

SPEAKER_02

We were just and they were they were popping their heads up, you know, as far as what I remember with them telling us. And you know, we were seeming just standing there kind of like pin almost like pinned down, but you know, we we didn't really have an a way to get out because I think everyone else is doing their own, you know, sure throughout the city. Um, so yeah, we finally got out of there, went back to our I think combat outpost, and it was just it was just my it was my it was just every it was just it was hard to it was hard to make sense of what was happening. Um and we just you know, after that

Mission Briefs And The City Goes Quiet

SPEAKER_02

we then we go back out um on foot patrol. Um in this, like I said, the city just it kind of everything kind of caught more like calmed down after that at that point. But yeah, just doing foot patrols um outside of the vehicles was you know, that was it was it was yeah, it was something.

SPEAKER_01

So in that three to four hours you were covering that alleyway, how how much distance do you think you could see? Could you see two blocks, ten blocks, a couple miles?

SPEAKER_02

Um we were so we were the alleyway we came, I wasn't I wasn't facing the alleyway where the you know where the sure just the part that you could see, yeah. Yeah, so we I a couple blocks at the most.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so and you're mostly getting engaged largely small arms fire, but yeah, it was small arms fire. AK AKs, pistols, that kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and they were it was you know, they was you know, as far as what Garcia and you know they were saying, popping their heads up, and just you know, they finally got them, and you know, we were able to get out of there. So I just remember like you know, standing firm where I was supposed to be and just kind of like not really having an understanding what was going on, like I said, going across, just taking the outside and you know, sort of just doing what we had to do. So it was yeah. And I guess that was my next question is did you personally catch contact at all, or did you just we had a uh no, there was a couple vehicles that came up on our pause, and you know, we did the pop shots, the morning shots, and they backed off. But as far as you know, specifically seeing any no, it was I didn't see where I was at. No, I did not, but okay, a couple guys, yeah, the other guys did. Um, and that was yeah, it was it was it was real, and it was it was I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

All right. Sounds like you evacked a few people, maybe that'd be my guess, just because there were some golf company casualties for sure. And there was a few weapons company casualties actually on the seventh, and so maybe I don't know who you were taking to combat outposts, but any of those people could have been, and then retooled. Where did you guys go on the foot patrols afterwards? Do you remember much?

SPEAKER_02

Uh I I want to either into the soccer stadium or just the government. I mean, I can't remember specifically, but we were down. I mean, it was and it was so it was me, it was a at that point. Was it me? It was a ponte, me and acres were down this alleyway, and just completely no, nobody's nobody's out. And then all of a sudden, this this car comes out of nowhere. It's like the orange and white, you know, sedan and just drives by us, you know, telling him to stop, stop, and then he drives by, and then we he comes back and you know, just you know, we shoot the warning shots, and you know, he just he would he just he kind of seemed like he was just driving by. I'm not we weren't sure what was going on. So it was just mixed memories of all these things, and it yeah, it was hard to hard to really but yeah, it was yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So any other specific moments stand out? Any other stories of of like other people that were next to you? Maybe not even your first person perspective, but like you watched someone do

April 6 Ramadi Kicks Off

SPEAKER_01

something specifically?

SPEAKER_02

Um no, like I said, just me at that point it was and the seven, it was just me and Calderone um on the just you know, making sure that no one's coming in the perimeter, but yeah, the looking back and seeing Hodges and Garcia doing, you know, down that alleyway. Um, but yeah, so it was just kind of yeah, so I just I I honestly I've just everything's kind of coming in, you know, and just uh I yeah, it's hard to explain um at that moment. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So well here, I'll remind you of a little piece of the pie then. And it's not on the seventh, but it's on the sixth. Uh on the sixth, you guys went out and you reinforced map three down in the south of the city, not too far from Easy Street. Uh the sounds like the front vehicle of your convoy or front two vehicles caught an ambush, and that was the one where Savage Return Fire ambush was extinguished. And then you moved on to contact the golf company elements were able to link up, and they were able to evacu some of their casualties. Map three was evacuing some of their casualties, and then at that point you were free to reinforce us because we were uh surrounded up in the north of the city. I was with Mobile Assault Platoon 2. Uh, I remember when you guys showed up because you guys came in driving like 60 miles an hour, which was hilarious to me. Uh honestly, we were surrounded, and I didn't think anybody could get to us. Like we were we both ends of the street had uh heavy enemy fire and burning vehicles and all kinds of shit. Anyway, you guys came screaming up and it was wonderful to see. Do you happen to remember coming up into the north area of the Sophia district? It would have been very visually distinctly different from the south of the city. The south of the city was very tight, right? Uh house to house, the houses were very close together. You could jump from rooftop to rooftop, which is what the enemy often did. Right. In the north of the city, a little more spread out, but still had the surrounding walls around all the houses, but there were lots of palm trees and a little more space for maneuver.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_01

You remember coming up the north and uh and linking up with us at all?

SPEAKER_02

I remember that. I mean, where we were stayed where we were at when the when the vehicles stopped and taking, you know, doing the security for that. I remember this uh the berm that we were looking. over to make sure that we were you know protecting and whatnot but at this you know that it that Sophia did yeah that was definitely a difference than the actual uh uh you know this the the the more the more you know compacted part of the city so right yeah specific you know yeah it was you know but not you know like where you guys were yeah it's just um all these memories man I'm I know I apologize but it's like no no that's okay I'm I'm just I'm trying to to pick your brain and you're doing good you're doing good Shane we'll see what pops up it's crazy I'm like wow I I guess I it's like I there's specifics that are I mean that just are burned into my brain and then the other ones are just like I knew I was there it's just what we did specifically at the time that that's like wow you know so well and and the the point of the asking the questions is to to kind of lead you down there up with a memory that doesn't

April 7 Alleyway Security Under Fire

SPEAKER_02

necessarily answer the question go ahead and take that memory or that that that thought process if you're trying to stop yourself right from remembering something to answer the question.

SPEAKER_00

It's more we're we're asking it more uh to have you come up with the memory than answer the question if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02

Right. No hundred percent yeah um but honestly yeah it's like when we're when talking about linking up um yeah just being just being in the back of the being back in the in the back of the convoy was even harder to remember what was going on in the front. So where we when we when we'd stop to you know to to to know to evacuate or to bring the casualties back or whatnot. It's just you know doing a lot of security and uh specifically and then I remember not so much on the seventh or then on the eighth I believe is when they called the jihad I want to say that was is that after the seventh on the when they called and then on the then more actually happened on the 10th but going out even after that when Dan Dan and um Hurley and um that truck got hit.

SPEAKER_01

I remember that's kind of jumping forward into the end of April. But yeah that's please if that's that's the next thing you remember please go with it.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah and then we you know driving it was I want to say you know later on in the evening and then just you know driving up a bourman all of a sudden you know we're we're the truck right behind them and then boom and then it was you know Hurley and um Dano and Accles uh specifically and you know we were security you know we were that just and that was that became we had to you know that was something that very burned your brain you know as far as that goes and that was that was the first oh shit because nothing real nothing had really happened prior to that specifically with in the back in the back of the we have not seen anything like visually like that. And all of a sudden we look and that thing has just went off and that truck was hit. And that's kind of where my first real oh shit obviously those moments of just adrenaline for you know sixth, seventh and 10th but that moment when Dan and um that truck was hit was my first like oh shit moment where this is you know now now it's now the guys are getting hit. And we were still in the highbacks um and it seemed like it at that point like you know it we were in the highbacks you know for obviously facing outboard and it's like it didn't make it it until the IED started to become more prevalent then it was like this is really stupid that we're not in a you know an upper arm vehicle and then so seeing that seeing that happen in real time and even and then still didn't change because you know then a couple of weeks later Savage gets hit and so it was just the a culmination of like and it almost seemed like and Hodges almost took not not specifically related to the injuries but he's like he also wore that like the higher the upper the high backs like a badge of honor like we're gonna take these high backs down Nova no one else is doing it. So he's like he just really he wore that as like a badge of honor like yeah we're gonna you know we're the toughest we're the toughest group in the Mike Hodges no that's not that's not gonna work we've got to get into another vehicle but yeah so yeah just those those IED specifically were you know that those moments of fuck you know this is this is it and that was that was tough that was that was a tough part.

SPEAKER_01

Well drilling down just a minute we'll start

IED Strike And Living With Loss

SPEAKER_01

with home and and Hurley what you were talking about both of them had to be evaced from the battlefield both went home yes uh that day they did not return.

SPEAKER_02

No they did not uh Ackle stayed as far as I know even though he was wounded he he stayed uh he was treated out at Junction City and then stayed yep uh during that particular engagement do you I know you guys had to stay on scene for a couple hours afterwards uh and we were your responding element we were qrf so we came out do you happen to remember your role of what was going on while we were trying to figure out how to both get that vehicle out and get those Marines uh off to medical um nothing specific not I mean nothing specific as far as what we I remember just sitting sitting out there for like you said a couple hours um but yeah just making sure that they were getting back and what we needed to do to get back ourselves because I think after that we I think we went right back to Hurricane Point um and just had to deal with that shit and then getting the information later that they are not returning. So um yeah that was that was a tough one. But yeah I remember in um and then I get yeah nothing that's just in general to security part but nothing jumps out as far as what we what we did specifically. I remember like one I want to say that I don't remember if it was that night but a vehicle did get stuck somewhere and we had to use the those cargo straps to get it. I don't know if it was that specific part of that truck got stuck out there as well but it um I'm not sure if that was a reason we had to use the cargo strips uh straps to get it out. I don't remember that was the same night but why we were out there even longer but um yeah specifically the terrain was just you know sometimes it worked sometimes it didn't so if you like what you've heard this is a multi part episode make sure you listen to the rest of the story