Constant Combat

Smokepits and Scuttlebutt - Benjamin Thibeault (part 2 of 2)

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In Part 2, Ben Thibeault zooms in on the memory that nothing about Ramadi felt built for success, and then digging into what combat looked like when equipment was short, plans changed mid-move, and you still had to bring everyone home. Ben shares blunt memories of recovering wrecked Humvees without a wrecker, dealing with evolving threats and equipment, and split-second problem solving. He wraps with discussions of trust in small unit leadership, and what the legacy is to him.  

• recovering disabled Humvees
• remembering LCpl Savage's last mission
• VBIED blast under the bridge 
• changing how we ride and fight
• narrowing focus to your sector and fundamentals 
• how complacency creeps in
• interactions with Iraqi kids and civilians
• frustrations with local police
• the insurgency adapting
• coming home with almost no transition and barracks life 
• why reunions and long-form talks help make sense of it all 




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SPEAKER_01

This is part two with Ben Tebow of Rainmaker Platoon. Yeah, there was, I mean, there's a lot of moments where you had to make it up on the fly, right? Calling the wreck calling the wrecker number one, there was only one wrecker. Right. And so it could have easy it could have easily been on a on a different mission.

SPEAKER_03

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01

Uh we actually just recently talked to the one of the people who was assigned to the wrecker uh from the army, and uh she was saying that

Improvised Recoveries With No Wrecker

SPEAKER_01

they were going as far as TQ Airbase and Fallujah, and like they were going crazy long distance covering with this one wrecker. That was the only wrecker. So sometimes when we were evacuing our our Humvees, it was up to us to pull them out with, like you said, toe straps, chains. We made shit up on the fly.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, we did.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, trying to evac stuff out of there.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

I do remember that uh specifically with Holmes and Hurley, when they got hit, uh, that vehicle was not able to move on its own. I don't know, I don't know if the engine was down, I don't remember what happened, but we did tow it back because the wrecker never came.

SPEAKER_02

Right. I I think it and it got hit. I want to say we were going up a as we made a turn, we were going up like a almost like a an embankment or something. And that's where it seemed like it got hit. So it got stuck on a on a ledge or whatnot, I believe. Yeah, maybe. And I just yeah, it was it was completely uh, I want to say destroyed in a way, but it was yeah, it wasn't getting out on its own.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the only thing I remember me personally when we got out there was the power lines were down and they were it was a high voltage lines and they were crackling everywhere. And I was I was sure we were gonna barbecue a Marine and have to work deal with that problem, but uh I don't remember that. You did mention uh Savage getting hit. It sounds like you were there for that mission as well. Savage was on May 12th. Do you happen to remember anything specifically from that day?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, we were out and obviously um on and I was I believe it was you know the fourth, the fourth truck out, and then I remember Savage, I can just distinctly see him sitting on top of the the upper arm up armor, like you know, as he always would. Um he just didn't fear anything, it seemed. Um, but he was just sitting up there, and all of a sudden, just boom, you know, that sound,

Savage IED And Losing Friends

SPEAKER_02

and you couldn't see shit because it's just a cloud of smoke. Um, and then we just we were down there. We didn't we didn't we didn't get any communication for at least 20 minutes um in the back. And next thing you know, Savage as a small, I'm gonna say a quarter-size shrapnel just hit the right part of his back, and that was it, and we had to get the get him the hell out. And um, yeah, that was we were just we're down there for a specific amount of time. And I can't remember a ponte was I believe my team at that time, and we had to sit down and on for extra making sure that there was rumors that there was more IEDs in the area, so we were waiting, waiting for the the engineers to come out and sweep. So we were out there for a little bit longer, I believe. Um and then it just seemed like it seemed at that point where we had no idea what was going on uh even after uh I think after Savage uh was evacued out, and I didn't find out until he passed, until we got back to the hooch, maybe three or four hours later, that they told me he was we had to go back down to the uh the motor pool to kind of redo the trucks, make sure that you know, more armor. Then they said that Savage had not made it. So that was a pretty, pretty rough, rough day, um, specifically. Um that hit pretty hard. Um just because we just went through this with Dan and and and um Hurley, and it just like that was two weeks, three weeks apart, and I just I couldn't believe it was happening again. Um and this was just, you know, taking these vehicles, you know, through these almost like IED alleys, it seemed, um, and without any kind of SOP to uh remedy it. Um so yeah, that was that was a moment, you know, at that point. It was like, all right, what the hell? This is we're not gonna have any vehicles left, nor anybody, you know, willing to want to go out anymore. But yeah, so that was tough. And then I don't know if it was that close by that moment, but we're one minute, one day we were like, this bite up early in the morning. Um, I don't know if it was in June or some point, but we were taking going to Combat Outsport Outpost for some reason. And again, one of those nobody's out kind of thing. So we're driving the outpost, we're there for about a you know a good hour, we come back, and then we had passed a we had passed a car underneath the bridge on Michigan that obviously you're not we didn't really pay much

Bridge VBIED Shock And Aftermath

SPEAKER_02

attention to that one specific car, and then we come back, and that car's still there, and all of a sudden, that thing just it was walking uh Wadi's vehicle and then Ackles, and then behind us in the back, and that thing just it blew, like a VBID just blew. I thought the truck in front of us got decimated, like it was just gone, and we got out dismounted. Hodges had said he saw the people up in the alleyway, up in the high rises, and we had taken covered, pop, you know, uh clearing, you know, taking whatever needed to be taken care of. But I just specifically remember that moment where that VBID just blew and like that truck, and then God no one and it ended up being it just missed completely. But it hit the Iraqi that was walking next to it. Yeah, hit him and they so he got the he got the brunt of it. Um, but yeah, it was it was an unscathed for us moment. So that but that really once that was the first VBID I'd seen uh that close to we were faced, we're still facing outboard, and I'm like, this is this is insane. Like, and that finally changed, I believe, later on. But yeah, that that outboard stuff is a little now thinking back, I can't I just can't believe we did that. Right with no choice.

SPEAKER_01

I mean it was that was it, but it was well that's I mean, that's actually a good point. So you at least two times in two weeks you had seen huge IEDs and huge and you saw one KIA and two major casualties, uh multiple major casualty. I mean, there multiple people were wounded in all those vehicles. Um what did you do differently after that? Did you personally do anything differently? Did you sit differently?

SPEAKER_02

Did you try to I think yeah, I think we uh we ended up having to face inboard. I think they they put higher, I want to say they they never put like the um the plywood up. I remember I listened to Dobbs story about the plywood on top of it but I didn't realize when you said that um that was for the gunner to turn around and sit on, as opposed to it wasn't using any, it wasn't protecting us, let's just

Facing Inboard And Armoring Up

SPEAKER_02

be honest.

SPEAKER_01

Wasn't the point, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Right. Um, but yeah, no, we I think we ended up facing inboard instead of outboard after that last IED. Um, I think it became an estimate, it was mandatory that we did not face outboard anymore, at least until we get more armor. Um, but it's it just didn't seem like we we had a lot of it was makeshift, um, going down to the motor pool and soldering things together. I remember Dahl and McNaughton were very big on doing that, and Savage obviously before he had passed. But um, yeah, there was we we made it a mission to get these trucks as best we could armored up, more sandbags or whatnot. But that was uh I remember, yeah, it was we're no longer facing outboard. We're gonna sit in the middle or you know, face inboard and then kind of keep your head down. Um as they were getting more those IDs were becoming more and more um prevalent. Um that was uh that was getting scary. So did you ever personally get hit? So we were on the actually the I don't know, I'm gonna say maybe later toward the end of deployment, uh, we were going out of Blue Diamond and on the way back, between Blue Diamond and Hurricane Point, there was a small ID that went off underneath our truck. Um yeah, it didn't no day, no injuries. Uh I I think our truck was okay. But yeah, we we that shake shook us up a little bit. Um it hit right underneath. Um, yeah, it was like shit. This is the first one I've actually got hit by. Seeing a multiple, bunch of them, but yeah, that was the first one. It wasn't, like I said, it didn't, it you know, knocked us out, knocked us over, but nothing nothing catastrophic by any means. So yeah, that was kind of uh it's my my claim, my claim there. But yeah. But I go back to I go back to what Garcia, I remember listening to Garcia's thing when he said, Yeah, he said once once you get hit by something or once you see something, it's like, did I make it or not? And if you did, keep fighting. I I hearing that now, it made so much sense. And I'm like, that is very true. And only if it would have told us back in 2004, you know, it would have been a lot more helpful. But it was I just I really when he when he had said that, I was like, wow, that that made sense. And that's when I kind of go back to the the junior leadership. Um that's their meant that was their mentality the entire time, at least with Rainmaker. Um, it just didn't seem like they wavered ever. And they were always, first and foremost, worried about our you know, well-being uh ahead of their own. Um, I was from daub down. It was just, it was, I'm sure it was the same in that platoon. It seemed to you guys really tight. Um, so yeah, that's my one my one thankful thing was just how how unified that our groups were, especially uh Rainmaker, obviously with one platoon but broken up into just two sections. Um yeah, it was it was it was good that we had that um leadership as such a young, you know, Garcia was my age when I went. I mean, that's that's you know, to think about, you know, obviously being a little older, but you know, these guys are these, you know, sergeants and staff sergeants are my age, you know. So you know that was that was that was hard to get, you know, hard to swallow when I first came over there. But right it paid off.

SPEAKER_01

The things you're describing all sound extremely stressful, especially when you don't know what the actual mission is or what was going on. Did you find yourself having a hard time like maintaining focus? Or on the flip side, did you find that the stress of it sort of sharpened your focus and that you were you just paid attention to your specific role and then you didn't worry about it? What how did you deal with all the uncertain information? Because it sounds like you didn't know what the missions

Staying Focused With Foggy Orders

SPEAKER_01

were most of the time, and you were a few vehicles back, so you may not even have known where you were going.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I think everything just seemed to happen on the fly. Um, we just, you know, you know, we need we're going to escort these people here. We're going to, you know, aid someone here and aid, you know, go to combat outpost, what not? So it was just like, you know, jump in, provide security when needed, get the hell out of the truck when you need to dismount, get back in. So it was a lot of that, you know, obviously 22 years ago, just thinking back and like, but a lot of it was just do the fuck what you're supposed to do. Just make sure you get your make sure to watch, make sure to watch your sector. And if need be, like within that air within your sector, if something needs to be happen that needs to be taken care of, you take care of it. But it was a lot of just getting in in the truck, getting out of going on bug hunts or going on, you know, patrols or whatnot. But yeah, the more so when we did those QRF, it was it was it was there wasn't anything specifically I remember doing like grabbing an EVAC and or grabbing a casualty and taking them specifically. So a lot of it was me providing security in the in my general sector. But yeah, those bug hunts were those are a thing. Those were a thing.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it's funny, you what you're describing, you know, the fundamentals make the mission, right? Yeah, sure. But you just you just use the word bug hunt. Tell me about your bug hunt memories, man. Those are uh those are usually long operations. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Um I would uh first on a memory getting up with like uh obviously we get the you know, the talk of you know, the mission the night before, sitting around or squally or whatnot, and then the next, you know, the next day you get up at like 2 a.m. and we're gonna go post. And which was like, you know, thinking about it now, yeah, we go out there all, you know, all right, we're we're you know, down there door to door to door, and then come around 7 or 8 a.m. when all the kids and all the families are coming

Bug Hunts And Twelve Hour Days

SPEAKER_02

out, asking you questions, talking to you. And then that's when the complacency set in. And I was, you know, thinking back at it now, it's like, yeah, we got we got somewhat complacent a lot of the times. And for the most part, the buck hunts were there wasn't anything major that, you know, specifically that happened. So thank God. But um, yeah, I remember being out there eight hours in the heat. It was that was that was not ideal, but necessary. Um, but yeah, so and going into house, you know, here and there, but you know, specifically remember just sitting on a and down the alleys just posting up, making sure no one's coming in that needs can't come in. But yeah, they had a way of come uh they have, you know, people that we were okay letting in, like the kids, you know, and the and the and the and the the women, um, they were kind of walking through in and out. But yeah, a lot of it was just making sure no one we knew that was supposed to not come in didn't come in. And then we mount up and go back to the hoosh after about 12 hours. So it was a long day.

SPEAKER_00

Do you have any specific memories of interacting with the uh local populace?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, a lot of it the soccer field specifically, or just when we were on like patrols, um, and you know, the kids would just come by and like Mr. Mr. You know, always says for baby, and you know, give them something, whatever you wanted, whatever they wanted, you know, that was we gave, you know, that they had anything that they thought was you know good to have, like, you know, anything like a piece of candy, anything out of an MRE. Um, but yeah, just meeting with, you know, seeing

Kids On Patrol And Human Moments

SPEAKER_02

like you know, the kids in the area after all the shit that was going on and actually interacting with, and they always had, you know, most of them had smile, like kids had smiles on their face after uh, you know, firefights and what you know stuff going on the day before. It's just they come back out and it's like it was just it was wild. It was an experience. Like when you interact with them, um, you know, the kids and the and even males who, you know, weren't part of the well, maybe they were, who knows? But they just seemed like data, every day was something new. Like it just it didn't really if it happened if it happened the day before, the next day was if there was nothing going on, you know, that we needed to, you know, make sure that with the threat wasn't there, it just seemed like a normal day, just going through interacting with the populace. And that's it it kind of kept us grounded. We were out, you know, it gave us a sense of purpose. And I think that's kind of what you know balanced our mission out was like, you know, helping the pop the population, but also eliminating the threat. So that balance was, I'm glad we were a part of able to do not just one specific thing, but a multitude of different things. And I think that was uh beneficial, especially now, um, you know, once outside the Marines, being able to understand that, you know, conflicts everywhere, and it's just to be part of that and understand that it's not it's not specific to an area. It's just it's you know, it's it's I don't know, it's hard to really explain, but you know, it's nice that we had that ability to interact with the locals, um you know, understanding and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00

So you bring up uh stand-in posts for the bug hunts. Um if you're uh it sounds like that was a lot of what you were doing. So you probably stood a lot of posts out at the uh governance center. Uh we spend a lot of time out at the uh um the police station. Wadi sacron them out there.

SPEAKER_02

Wadi sacron, I remember that being out there multiple times. Remember, is that what it is? The Wadi Saxaron. What is it? I think it was in the Sophia. I can't remember. It was like it was like in this open field, and we were just kind of we that's where we did our houses that were more remotely located, and we'd have to go find out to go out there, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I don't remember that name specifically.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I but but there was a few. Maybe I'm speaking it incorrectly, but I'm you know I I believe I believe it was called the Wadi Sacron, or if someone made I don't know, but I remember that specific that name specifically being mentioned. I don't know, who knows?

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember everything, so but but no, we did uh a lot of stuff up the up. I remember standing a lot of posts up at the hospital too. So do you have any any specific memories on um some of those long ass posts? I have several more amusing stories coming from the police just because those the antics that those uh Keystone cop level uh Iraqis were as they were trying to get them all pulled together.

SPEAKER_02

I had to I remember like in the beginning of the deployment, like we were just literally we'd go out and they would just be around us, they'd be around a uh a burning barrel staying warm. And we were just driving around. They they didn't seem to they we'd get mission, you know, um calls that

Iraqi Police Antics And Rooftops

SPEAKER_02

there was you know threats in the area or whatnot. And then every time we drive by, they were just sitting around a barrel, like, are you guys gonna help? Like, what's the deal? So it's just like they're just sitting there hanging out, like eating whatever, and it's just we're we're the ones driving aimlessly through the city looking for what we needed to look for. But you you come across, oh, do you see this guy? Nope, nope, didn't can't say we don't know, they don't speak English or whatnot. So it was yeah, but those um yeah, it was tough getting those the cops, I guess, to you know, to to aid and assist. Um, but yeah, that was I remember doing a lot of going to someone's house and we need to come and occupy this house. We'd go on the roof for a good four hours, um, just over overlooking whatnot. Um, having to have the people, hey, you need to leave the house while we come in and you know, lay on your ground, I guess. But yeah, it was uh a lot of those missions, it seeming like we're just dropping drop and go kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00

So coming into June, a couple bigger notes, you know, we had the uh the governor got kidnapped and tried to hand over the um power to the Iraqi police, Iraqi civil defense corps, and uh that was an abysmal failure. Yeah. Um and then early part of uh July was when Kandi um was killed.

Snipers And The Insurgency Shift

SPEAKER_00

Do you have any memories coming into and then that's when things really started to kind of switch as far as I think some a lot of people agree that uh the insurgency became different. There there was a little bit more they're gonna stand 10 totals down.

SPEAKER_01

Um I mean even just right before that, June 21st was when the snipers were killed. So there you go. That's that seemed like a more coordinated effort, something different.

SPEAKER_00

Actually, you were a part of the response team, weren't you? Uh for the snipers.

SPEAKER_02

I believe yeah, I believe we were. I believe we were.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I know uh I think Rainmaker, Rainmaker did go up um up top to to help pull together the what happened, and then sledgehammer took the bodies.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Um I would say that was when things just kind of changed kind of like dramatic. At that point, we're like, we've been here for like four and a half months. The enemy was adapting to us, you know, more so and you know, changing on the fly. And things are becoming more, I guess, on a larger scale, like you know, the the IEDs were getting more, you know, they were more creative, I guess. Um and just it just seemed as though at that point things were just never gonna end. Like it just was caught this, like this long deployment of just we're just gonna be here doing the same thing, just going back and forth up and down. And I think eventually, but was it I can't remember when they they said we're no longer going down Nova. Is that like sometime in June? We never we never officially not not as frequent, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We never officially stopped, but the army had a concept of things called black routes, right? When either there was enough attacks on a street or whatever, and so we did kind of adopt that mentality where we we would only use it when mission essential, that kind of thing. Right. We stopped doing it, it was around June when we stopped doing the sweeps. I don't know how you remember how much you remember the early missions.

SPEAKER_02

Oh, I remember the sweeps, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

But the early missions was just drive up and down this road until something blows up or until you see something that should blow up.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

And and then we started, we're like, oh no, we're gonna instead have LPOPs on the top of all these different buildings and posts and reinforce them, and then we'll just keep eyes on Michigan. And at least Michigan will be safe.

SPEAKER_03

Right.

SPEAKER_01

We don't have to worry about going down Nova or whatever other road.

SPEAKER_02

Right, right. Yeah, and then the countless nights on uh North Bridge. I don't think I ever was on South Bridge. I remember North Bridge specifically being on those majority of the time. Um we were when we were the stay behind. What was that one called? The uh Camp Guard, yeah, Camp Guard Guard Week. Right, yeah. Um, yeah, so going up there, and I remember specifically not being hungry up there, and then we'd say, Hey, you know, they they the couple of the Hodges come up, bring us some chicken, some pita. Now thinking back at it, it was really good at the time,

North Bridge Nights Food And Hygiene

SPEAKER_02

and I'm like, why did I eat that? You know, knowing that they're coming up, allowing us to eat that kind of specific food. I'm like, it was good, don't get me wrong, but yeah, instead of the MREs are getting tired, I'm like, Yeah, let's get some good pita bread and some good chicken, and like it was, you know, then you kind of see how they were preparing it on the street, and it's like maybe I should not have been eating this stuff, but yeah. But I I got out got out on stage, and it was good food, it was good local food, and we're not gonna go to a restaurant, so it was nice to get some of the locals to bring whatever they could. So that was that was good. It was good.

SPEAKER_00

I know many of us had uh very fairly long gastrointestinal distress.

SPEAKER_02

Um and I don't do I don't I don't remember when the shop were the showers in the hoop were those were we allowed to take showers in there or do we have another location?

SPEAKER_00

I can't I specifically can't remember when we were we could shower, we weren't supposed to get our face wet, you know. It was kind of you know, shower your body. I always I hated washing my camis at the in the washer. So I would I would like take a shower with my camis on and then rinse off the soap with my camis on and then take take off my camis and then wash my pits, wash my bits, and then get the fuck out. Right. Oh yeah. I mean you couldn't flush the toilets. You could use it for a piss, but you couldn't, yeah. You had to go out for the if you're gonna take a shit, you had to go out to the porter shutters.

SPEAKER_02

So and there was a moment when I think I I think there was like a two-week low, the guy could no one could come on from you know to clean those things. So that that shit was obvious.

SPEAKER_00

That's because we that's because he was no longer with us.

SPEAKER_02

Right. That's that's very true. That's very true. And uh yeah, that was uh that was an experience just being there, let alone um going outside. But yeah, that was that was something. So you had to you had we had to change the way we did things, you know. I think not having to really, I mean, and maybe it was beneficial, but not having to really do a workup, uh normal workup, and then just shifting over to Iraq, I didn't really have time to like you know to think about much out outside of that. Once I get to the fleet and I'm already training. So just everything just when I when I was over there, I think it just kind of

Trusting Young Leaders To Get Home

SPEAKER_02

forced me to, you know, grow the fuck up immediately. And just, you know, regardless of how long I just didn't have that, I didn't have that ability to second guess anything. So, you know, whatever the in whatever what so when I say when I'm doing these missions and I'm just providing whatever that called for, that's what I had to do. I didn't really think twice about it. And I don't think I was ever like beyond, fuck, I'm not doing this, because I didn't that never really crossed my mind, but I was always the first one to be like, Tebow, yeah, get the hell out there, you're the first one out. But it's but I but the same, you know, but it it it wasn't like the it wasn't the punishment, you know. But it just it just seemed like it, it just it at that point it's just it wasn't it just seemed like normal. It didn't seem like I had to because I didn't have that normal workup that it just all the stuff that we were I I trusted in the leadership to do the right to to make sure that I was gonna be okay. And yeah, just do what you're supposed to do, and then you're gonna be fine. So kind of being true.

SPEAKER_00

You're describing a perfect junior marine, though. I mean, that's like I mean, it's it's true. Shut the fuck up, do what I say, do it now. Right, you know, you will gain you'll you'll understand later, but right now. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And that's yeah, and I and I think that I think that, and that was never, we were never like, yeah, before we got we we get, you know, we got the typical first, you know, boots, you know, in the fleet. But once we get over there, that shit like went out the window. There was none of that. It just was everyone's here to do one thing. I've never been in this position. I'm gonna treat you as you know my equal. And that just it just seemed like that was such a common thing, even though the guys, you know, there's some guys that wanted to, you know, guys that weren't leaving the water, like the chow hall. You know, I remember the chow hall gun. He had his, he had some moments where I think Meraki went in there a couple times and shoot him out. He's he's like, we're not opening this chow hall for you guys. And Meraki went in there and just flipped out on him, and then we ended up getting chow that night. So that was kind of cool.

SPEAKER_00

Surprise, surprise.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but yeah, it was we had, like I said, the leadership and gym, like even from the top down was just you know phenomenal. So I think that was a big, if not the only reason why we got back as as many guys as we did because of just how I don't know, like I said, just incredible. So can can't really thank them enough, or just in general, just want to be, you know, letting them know that's a big reason, you know, just whoever whoever's in charge of any any specific section or any platoon or any even squad. It was that's where you listened, and that's where you, you know, you you got you got you got back. So I'm happy for that.

SPEAKER_01

So that's good. I mean, it sounds like your leaders earned your trust pretty easily as well. Yeah, because that I I have heard stories from other people, not necessarily not really even necessarily from your platoon or even from our company, where people didn't feel that way. They felt like their leaders were hesitant, scared, not helpful, not leader, not not leading, right? Just not not doing your job. And so that's uh that's good that it doesn't sound like you had that experience.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, I would say that was definitely not that was one of the if the one thing that, you know, obviously everything sucked over there at certain times, but if it you know, just on a small, on a really micro level, like that's what that squad leader, you know, they were just you know, they had that, they had the they had that work up before we got there, but just just that it there was never any obviously we question, you know, stupid shit if it if it came down, but it didn't seem we did more stupid shit our second deployment direct than we did the first time. There was a lot, there was a lot more guys that were more gung-ho the second time, but I think this was just getting everybody the fuck home quick, and I think that's kind of what everyone's mentality was, at least in Rainmaker, that's where I spend the majority of my time, if not all my time. So I'm really only speaking for for that in you know that's a good question.

SPEAKER_01

Did you ever get uh pulled and tasked to go with any other platoons? I know that did happen to some people.

SPEAKER_02

Are you talking about while we're in oh no, I was I I nah, just as it was a working party, it was mainly I was I was I was with Ringmaker. Um when we lost Dan and Hurley, we had to revamp the truck. So I think I went from I went from Hodges to a ponte um for my squad

Replacements And The Stories That Stick

SPEAKER_02

as squad leader. And um, it was funny when you know being in with a pony, he just seemed to have everything. Like he just got gear. I don't know where he got it from, he just got it. And like it was something it was like yeah, this rant this this random shit every all the time. I'm like, man, what did you get for? I just found it somewhere and acquired it, but I'm just he just it was he was uh good guy to have as far as a resourceful human being. Like it was it was it was nice, yeah. So I don't okay.

SPEAKER_01

I was just gonna say, do you remember any of the combat replacements coming in? Because that was the other strategy that we had besides reconfiguring the company where we kind of redistributed some of the O331s, 51s, 52s to other platoons.

SPEAKER_02

We had a we had a few. I if you shout out some names, I I will remember, I believe. But I do remember that I do remember I remember the combo, but just not by name. I mean not by face.

SPEAKER_00

Your yours would be Fox, Brian Fox, yeah, I remember Fox um and um oh I can see his face.

SPEAKER_02

Was he a tall lanky guy?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I don't remember. I mean ours, so ours was um Clark, Martinez, and Adams. Yeah, those were the sledgehammer, but it would have been it was Fox and because he was the driver for Garcia and then I mean I can't do it.

SPEAKER_02

I okay I can't either no, I I remember I remember the replacements. Um yeah, um not not personally on that level, but I do remember we had the replacements come over. Um it's just you remember being there for seven months and then but you just remember the sp only the specifics of those seven months, at least for me. Nothing nothing that was and one good thing about Ramadi, and I remember one of the prompts that I was really interested in what I read is what you want people to remember, why are what you want people to remember most about your deployment. After going on these two these two reunions, I don't really think I want anybody who wasn't who doesn't understand to make them understand kind of thing. And it's like it just felt like this is more inclusive to us. And I felt like we we had something that it just didn't seem like anybody else really needed to know. Um, because they weren't, you know, they didn't, you know, they had their own different different parts of Iraq, but for some reason Ramadi seemed like the you know, the bastard part of each deployment was 2-4's Ramadi experience. And I don't think that matches anything else, and it's impossible to tell anybody what it was, you know, if they're not they weren't there. So to be as cliche as possible. Um, I really take that, I really take that to heart as far as that. And I always remember that, or it always stick with me, is that no one else really needs to understand. That's just, you know, I kept that, I keep that, and I think we all keep that in some way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_01

I think that's a very common sentiment is that at least that's I've heard it echoed back to me now a couple of times, probably a dozen times, that even when you try to tell the stories, people don't believe it. And then you could tell you could probably tell 20 stories, but even if you just told one, they would be like, nah, that didn't happen. That's not real. Right. I mean, even simple stuff, like you're talking about the trucks not having armor, and you were out there putting pieces of wood, sandbags, and whatever piece of metal you could find on the ground and just picking a welder up and putting it on, like uh you know, like something out of a Mad Max movie. Right. It's it really changes it's people are like, that's there's no way the military wouldn't do that to you. They'd send you with with real stuff. And it's like, man. Right. No, absolutely not. It didn't happen. Yeah, no, no.

SPEAKER_02

Um, but I was gonna actually bring this up too. Uh I want to re say that we were for whatever reason, we went to that hotel and we just lit that thing up. Is that yeah, I don't know if anybody's anybody else has mentioned that or whatnot, but I just remember specifically going to that hotel and just sitting there in a you know a 180-degree circle or 180-degree um and just lighting that thing up repeatedly, like just so if you guys can remember that.

SPEAKER_01

So that was an interesting

Why We Lit Up The Hotel

SPEAKER_01

day where multiple platoons got it, it was basically golf company went out, they got hit, and then a some kind of IED went off in front of the command element. They were hemmed up, map three went out to back them up. I believe you guys went out to back them up, and then we all ended up finally, we went way north. I don't know where we were going exactly, I don't remember, but I remember being way north and coming around the opposite side of the OP hotel, and they were like, Yeah, we're taking fire from multiple windows, and everybody was like, Okay, well, then we're not gonna clear the building, we're just gonna shoot the building. Yeah, and and you're right, that's a perfect way to describe it. Is everyone in the company who was out and the two Bradleys just throughout the thing through the whole building?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, no, yeah, we let that thing, yeah, that thing got lit up pretty good. And I'm just like, I remember that's another one of those things where we're just gonna go out there. This is your mission to go sit there in front of the hotel, and if you see anything, you know, you have permission now to light it up. So I thought it was like almost like target if we just you know B0 weapons or whatnot, but it seemed like, yeah, that was yeah, okay. We haven't shot we haven't shot anything in a while, so let's just light up this hotel. So yeah, that was one of those specific moments. But yeah. So yeah, it's hard to these memories, these memories coming back 22 years later. It's it's hard to believe that it was that long ago. It seems almost like yesterday. And then, you know, obviously the reunions we've had recently were, you know, made this great. Um and I always not you know, not struggled with you know as much. I mean, I guess everyone has a different everyone fought that different war while they were there for whatever reason any any guy there had a different perspective and different understanding and different different mission.

Reunions Brotherhood And Telling It Now

SPEAKER_02

But getting back, um seeing guys going in out into the um reunion and seeing how things uh didn't seem like any time had passed since the last time we saw him back in 2004. And I think that's a testament to this this battalion in general. Um it just it's it's almost like that. I don't want to say, you know, obviously it is a brotherhood, but just no one's gonna know that. And just no one has an idea on what that is. And that's just something that really resonates more than any other thing in Ramadi, is just the knowing that everyone has that same mentality, it seems like just happy to be obviously different people are going through different things, but just happy to have that that love and under uh mutual respect for everyone who was there. And it it really showed a lot this last reunion with the guys that were there. So I was really uh happy with that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you keep in close contact with anybody since since uh 2004?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, uh me and uh Accles and uh Akers, um, and my friend uh uh Dean Kugata from Fox, um a couple other guys um here and there, but nothing you know, nothing is you know, I talked to Forky here and there. Um but yeah, um just a lot like I said, it's nice to go back to the reunions and it's almost like we're still back there in 2004. Nothing's changed. We're back at least my enlistment. So yeah. You know, it's you know, things things get busy moving on with you know, family and whatnot. So it's just but it's nice to have that and always knowing that that's there, that's that that that brotherhood's there always, no matter where you are, and you know, so that's a good well, rewinding you back 22 years just a little bit, you're kind of talking about winding down and coming home anyway.

SPEAKER_01

Do you remember what it felt like to get out of Hurricane Point and wind down and the the wine the coming home?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so that was where I would say that was when I started being like, I don't want to leave the wire anymore. Because we were like two weeks out, and then they I think it was what two five came and replaced they were on replacement. So they had that early party come over, and I think they were taking volunteers who'd want to go take out two five on the trucks, and obviously, you know, being I was the you know, Tebow,

Coming Home With No Decompression

SPEAKER_02

you gotta go because you're you're a boot, you gotta go. But there were some times you're like, no, Tebow, no, like we're gonna Tebow, you're not you don't have to go on this one. And so I'm like, you know, oh shit, really? And so um no, but it was uh I think at that point I'm like, I just want to get the hell home. And um, I figured I've we've done enough, but at the same time, we had to we had to pass on what we knew, and we had to make sure that the next unit coming in was gonna be well taken care of, and that's kind of what we had to do. And I think I remember heading over to um what's the name of that base?

SPEAKER_01

They called it they called it Junction City, but it was but it was a later renamed Camp Ramadi.

SPEAKER_02

That's right, right, clever. Um, so yeah, we we gotten seven tons, and I want to say that that seven ton we were on like broke down or stopped moving halfway there. Too fast, I think everyone just like puckered up and they were like, what the fuck? It was just like, all right. So yeah, that was uh that was our last like moment where leaving you know hurricane point, and that became real. And I was like, okay, and we finally get there, and it's like like there for like a week, maybe something like that. Yeah, something like that. So that was the nice transition. Um, and that's kind of the like I I remember listening to you guys talk. I don't remember who specifically, but that was the only transition we really got.

SPEAKER_01

No, uh well, that was gonna be my next question is do you remember getting any any transition whatsoever, even when we got back to Pendleton?

SPEAKER_02

No, because we well, I remember uh getting back, and I think Kennedy had said, I think it was right around closer to like coming up to Thanksgiving. He's like, Yeah, we're gonna give you guys an extra two days off and to kind of regroup and then we're back to training good oak now. But there was no, there was never any let's take it, let's take a week to unwind, let's go talk to some therapists, or let's go talk to some, you know, whatever. No, that was there was none of that. So kind of on your own, you know. Um, and I was pretty lucky not to have any specific personal issues. So I was very lucky that. But at the same time, I know there was guys that were struggling and still do. And I think there was I just I guess that just was maybe not a stigma, but it just wasn't it wasn't part of our transition back as far as that goes, at least in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01

And did you you live in the barracks uh when you first got back?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, um, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Can I remember what barracks life was like when you first got back?

SPEAKER_02

I do. I live with Accles. It was uh he was a messy guy. So yeah, I was trying to so no, we yeah, we lived there. Um it it was uh we were pretty close to going on Christmas break. Obviously, we're a couple months out. Um, but it just seemed to remember like, you know, obviously with when Jamie McLeod, um, he was hanging around as we were leaving. That's the last time I think I saw him. Um anyway, uh, but yeah, it's it was it it wasn't it wasn't normal. And obviously, that's my first deployment, so I don't have anything to and to have anything to go back on and you know rec, you know, any recollection of what it's like to come back in a normal deployment. But I don't I don't think it was like the best environment um just to be thrusted back into barracks life and then you know, here's some free time. So yeah, the the guys, you know, people that we I hung out with or whatnot, um, yeah, it was you know drinking here and there and just going out, but it you know, obviously fighting any, not getting arguments out in town here and there. Um people who just didn't understand, you know. I just I think I just think it was kind of it wasn't the best transition, but I think it was necessary because we were still in the midst of war, and I think we had to kind of start training for the next thing. So didn't really have time to you know unwind per se.

SPEAKER_01

Well, so that's uh that's a good transition to my next question. Then uh we'll see where we'll see where you want to end up. Uh you're now a salty combat marine, man. You uh you're the senior. You're gonna get your own, you're gonna get your own boots. Now I know you guys went to Okinawa next and uh you eventually did another Iraq deployment, but when you started getting your own Marines and becoming a leader, kind of what uh what did you talk to them about, especially about the Ramadi deployment?

SPEAKER_02

Um it's just it that was another thing.

Leading New Marines After Ramadi

SPEAKER_02

It didn't seem like there was uh it was almost like that new crop Marines who and it was they had this different because I remember uh was it um Polar and Dotson came. They were like they came in like right as before we got back, so they were kind of newish, uh, but not all fully new. Um but when we got the new Marines, it they almost kind of seemed like his leadership changed completely. Uh and everyone was kind of and I think that if if the same leadership had stayed, maybe things would have been a lot more uh tight, tight knit, but it seemed like it just everything got new. So everyone who transferred over from weapons to come or from golf to weapons, I think Bronze came over to weapons, so it it and going right to Okinawa, there really didn't seem to be that yeah. We can you know, I'll I don't know. I just it was different. I think it was just a lot different with that new group coming in than it was for us because we had such a clear mission that we're going to Iraq. So there's no fucking around. We're we're you gotta do this. And then going to Okinawa seemed like a almost a vacation. And I think that kind of became it almost like not complacent, but it became like, all right, we're not going to a combat zone. We're gonna be so it we eased up a lot, and I think I think it was just we kept a lot of that ram Ramadi stuff personal to the guys that were there. Didn't really kind of over yeah, we got like got salty, like, yeah, we were there, you know you weren't, and then you know, I just I think you know that that it changed a little bit. Like those they they respected that, but at the same time it became like it started becoming a tighter, you know, 2-4 became a different, oh especially in Okinawa, where younger Marines were hanging out with older Marines more normally, I guess. Um, but it just it just seemed like that was it wasn't really much of a uh that transition was, I guess, different than the my my transition into fleet right away. So um, yeah, it's kind of but our second deployment to Iraq was like that was that was like I mixed a lot of those things up with my the with Ramadi, but that that second deployment it was like it seemed like half the guys that didn't go to the first one really wanted to get action, and it's like we're like looking at them, like sometimes like why are we salting this place? We don't need to do it, like you know, it just seemed like there was a lot of guys over the guys that had already been there, and the ones that weren't like the older, you know, some of the staff NCO like really wanted to get some kind of I'm like no, let's not do this, and they kind of like overzealous a lot. So I think just a really uh very not strange um enlistment, but a very unique one. Obviously, anybody can say that, but it's just from one extreme to the next, or one extreme to not extreme to back to extreme. So, yeah, it was a fluctuation of uh of enlistment, uh my enlistment at least. Um so you kind of had to do what you gotta do, and you know, I think after Ramadi, everyone was just kind of like, are we ever gonna get to that point again where we have to it and that never happened, obviously. That second that second trip to Barwana to Barwana was nothing compared to what it was in Ramadi.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, yeah, it it just other than if you were in Fallujah in 2004, right? Uh that there's really not very many other places. There was a couple spots in Afghanistan, but nowhere else in Iraq that had the same level of of intense conflict and combat, especially not sustained days of combat and context. Right.

SPEAKER_02

Right. And I think obviously when you when you hear stories about other people's deployments to Iraq, they they don't know what it was like, you know, obviously, unless like in 2-4, like unless that was there, like they're just not gonna have that same understanding about what we personally went through. And that's kind of that's okay. I'm I'm I'm you know, I'm I'm I'm I'm content with that as far as you know where I keep that. And you know, I'm happy. I think a lot of the guys may feel the same way or or just or just doing stuff like the pod you're doing is just really it I think it helps more than you think. Um, these guys are able to be themselves and you guys make that a valuable conversation. Contribution to that well-being of people. And yeah, I just think this is something that's needed. And regardless of anybody, if you want people to understand, hey, this is what we went through. No, I think it's just guys haven't been able to talk like this in a long, long time. And I think it's not so much emotions, but it's also trying to get trying to make sense of what you saw and trying to put that into perspective. Where, like I said, you the war you fought, the war Blake fought, the war I fought, completely different. As I as you can test. So you you start remembering these things. I'm like, I don't remember that at all. Yeah. It's like I just like it's it's but that's that's my mentality. It's like, or did it if I didn't if I didn't feel enough, like it is it I didn't get enough, like I'm coming back like almost like unscathed, but is that did I am I missing something? Is it should I have gotten something? You know, that's so that's you guys put that at ease, and I think that's really really awesome. So I really appreciate um how comfortable, comfortable this is, like I'd said. So that helps. Yeah. Good. That's a goal.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, you kind of put a bow on bow on it anyway, but I'll ask, is there anything you want to go over that we didn't that we didn't talk about?

SPEAKER_02

No, I think I think I think this is uh it's really good. I just appreciate like I said, I appreciate everything, and um, I hope this really benefits everyone seems to have different things they're talking about and different memories, and um, you know, the this like the seamless transitions, like I said, for you guys and everybody else. And it's just it's been a really good thing. And I'm I'm hoping more and more, um, even maybe outside of weapons, if this is uh continues to go beyond. I'm not sure what your plans are beyond this, but keep this up.

SPEAKER_01

I would like to tell you there's in some evil master plan that we have made. We made a lot of plans to launch, and then now it's just kind of taking its own legs, to be quite honest. Well, um, we didn't even know how many episodes we were ever gonna get through, and we've already exceeded our expectations. Amazing. So it it's uh it'll go where it goes and we'll go as long as people want to talk, I guess.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, well, hats off, and I think it's I think Blake was uh saying like pretty soon you're obviously the people you reached out to and you're just kind of hoping that people come back for more and more, which you know it'd be nice, it'd be kind of cool to do like almost like a round table, get a bunch of guys and just sit down if they want to do like a you know group setting and do this kind of like having then get those stories or really start coming.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, you start getting some real interesting shit. Yeah, we'll we'll do that at some point, I think.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, this is so cool, man. So well, I just want to thank you guys very much for everything. This has been a real treat.

SPEAKER_00

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