.jpg)
Constant Combat
This veteran-led podcast highlights the experiences of Weapons Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, starting with their harrowing 2004 deployment to Ramadi; a 9 month combat tour which resulted in the highest casualties in a single deployment - a deployment that most Americans have never heard about. Through candid conversations surrounding these events, the series also explores earlier experiences that shaped the Marines, emphasizing their grit, humor, and humanity while aiming to honor their stories authentically.
Constant Combat
Endurance for One Moment More - David Silton (part 1 of 3)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
We start part 1 with Dave Silton of MAP 3 about the long buildup to Ramadi, from broken barracks and platoon hazing to urban combat training and the messy logistics of finally leaving. He shares what it feels like to arrive with a “hearts and minds” mindset, confront how unprepared everyone is for IED reality, and still find ways to cope when the pressure hits.
• Dave’s role in 2/4 as a driver and team leader
• Barracks life, hazing, and how a unit gets tight
• 9/11 memories and the strange limbo of Operation Noble Eagle
• Okinawa training, ship life
• Pre-deployment schools, language training
• Deployment-day chaos, missing gear, and a rushed goodbye with family
• Kuwait acclimatization, scavenged gear
• Camel spider fear, early IED training gaps
• First impressions of Ramadi and Hurricane Point
• Care packages, trading food, and crucial routines
• Stress after firefights, and how Marines try to shut the brain off
• Getting sick after eating local food
If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.
----------------------------------------------
If you like what you heard, please subscribe on your favorite podcast service or follow our webpage for direct downloads @ https://www.buzzsprout.com/2525088
If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above.
All music used with permission by soundbay: https://www.youtube.com/@soundbay_RFM
Meeting Dave Silton
SPEAKER_02Alright man, let's tell everybody who you are.
SPEAKER_00My name's Dave Silton. Uh 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, part of Map 3. And uh I was a Lance Corporal, and I think I got promoted over there to corporal when I was in Ramani.
SPEAKER_02Nice. Yeah, that was what I I feel like I remember you getting promoted to corporal over there.
SPEAKER_01Was that a combat promotion, or do you just get in range?
SPEAKER_00In in range.
SPEAKER_02Nice. And then remind me, because I spent a lot of time in your hooch, but I don't remember who was in your like who's in your truck, who was in your squad, like who was your uh direct surroundings?
SPEAKER_00So um I believe we were squad three. Uh Lechard was my was the squad leader, uh the angry Frenchman. Um and uh and then our squad was all drivers and uh machine gunners. Okay. So and I was a team leader and I was basically
Squad Life And Vehicle Work
SPEAKER_00keep the trucks good to go, keep the guns up, and you know, that was pretty much you know what our what our squad was.
SPEAKER_02Interesting. Who else was with you in that?
SPEAKER_00Uh so I mean in our squad, you know, was Gordon, Kelly, um Pepper, Brown, uh, and then I think it was Daniels, Neil, uh, who else was the driver? I think Cox at a time, maybe. Okay. Yeah, that stuff gets a little fuzzy. Sure. Um but it was uh, you know, uh obviously the way our company worked, we were all vehicle mounted and stuff like that. The good thing was is our platoon had you know definitely some experience with that when we did, you know, the the IFABs and uh the the Mercedes-Benz. You know, it's it was so weird getting out and seeing like G-Wagons. I'm like, yeah, I drove those in the military. And my son was like, You drove those? And I'm like, well, not that nice, you know. To the point, like when we were getting ready to deploy before we deployed, I was like, How the hell are we gonna take an IFAB to Iraq?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00Like it doesn't have very much protection. Uh so I was very much on a you know, well, the the whole bottom of the the IFAVs at least were like like steel, they were more than what the Hummers were, but the sides weren't. You know, the sides weren't the there was no high back like walls or anything. I mean, I I guess just like we ended up with the Humvees just kind of like piecing shit together to to kind of protect people or at least give the illusion of protection.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say because my memory of it was basically a uh side by side, and there's like nothing on the sides.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like it was yeah, I mean it was actually if you look up uh you know infantry fast attack vehicle in in Google, it will show you a picture and it's actually Munez driving.
SPEAKER_01Oh no, shit. Yeah, that's hilarious.
SPEAKER_00It it's it's right there when we were in Guam. Um we were doing that training in Guam. So is that where is that where somebody drove out in the water and fucked up the blades and no, that was Cox, and he did that in San he did that in San Mateo Beach.
SPEAKER_03Yep, yep, yep, yep.
SPEAKER_00And and it got stuck and literally like destroyed, like basically. So yeah, that was Cox. When we he was in the process of getting his license for to to drive.
SPEAKER_02Perfect.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I was good.
SPEAKER_02That's I just that's I that's a very cock story. Yeah, that's a very cox story.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Um but uh but you know, I I know I got to 2-4 um right, you know, I enlisted in February 2001. So I you know, I I you know I Paris Island and went to Geiger and that whole thing, and then got shipped to California. And then I actually arrived with Shelton, and oh,
Barracks Culture And Hazing Lines
SPEAKER_00I can't remember the Gunny's name. Gunny Little? Lytle? Lytle Lytle stuck us in his like little ass car, and shell Shelton and I are not small individuals, so it was like the most uncomfortable ride where he picked us up and bringing us to San Mateo. But you know, it was two four had just gone through a reckoning of like drug pops and guys with meth labs in their wall lockers, like just the most insane. Again, you know, you're going, you have this image of you know, of what the Marines are, and then you get there and you're like, Holy shit, what the fuck am I in for?
SPEAKER_01So those are uh those were the fucked up barracks, too. They were just oh yeah, just falling down around us. I had a giant hole that I could put my head inside of if I wanted to. It was it was just terrible.
SPEAKER_00It was awful. Like it I was and I was like, who the and then you know, I I don't know. I mean, I remember some of your uh like the 81s, just uh stupid fuck fuck games you guys played. I was just like, and and I don't know if it was you or somebody else is talking about doing um ninja Ninja Turtles. Oh yes, and I so I remember, and I'm not gonna say his name, but I remember the senior Marine that did those because I like because I was in your platoon, I had hung out with him a couple times, sure, and and I remember a whole bunch of motherfuckers going in his room and he's like, Alright, man, I'll talk to you later. We gotta do new Deturtles. I was like, What the fuck are you guys talking about? And I was just like, Holy shit, there's some and again, like I don't know, I hazing's good to an extent, and and then it passes a line. I don't I don't remember a whole lot of times it went too far, but I I'm I know it did. I mean, in in in the moment, I'm sure there's guys that were like, Well, that was too much, you know.
SPEAKER_01It it for this is my perspective of and especially being in that group, so like I can speak with some authority being a boot at that time. It it depended on two different there's there's two pieces there. One, were you an actual shitbird or not? Like, did you was there some of the hazing was because they were frustrated with you? Because that wasn't the case for me. You know, like that wasn't like I didn't like I wasn't a I mean, I was a dumb boot, but I wasn't like they weren't mad, yeah, they weren't mad at me when they were doing it. And the second part is like kind of your mentality. I understood that to a large degree that this was meant to bring me in and like it was you know as fucked up as it is, is but like a binding moment, you know. But um and so like I had even though it sucked and whatever was happening sucked, it uh in the back of my head I knew that they were doing it out of like quote unquote love. Now, if you were a person that couldn't take that type of stuff in general, like even getting banged on and being made fun of and like verbally, like those type of people, they're like, you know, like don't call me that, you know, like even though they were the same thing was happening, they they weren't taking it the same way. And so I'll be honest, even those Ninja Turtles absolutely sucked. And one of my more vivid memories of had is having to do Ninja Turtles with a gas mask on when I filled a canteen up with uh with beer and would make me do my general orders through the gas mask, and then if I got it right, I would get it, I would get to drink drink the beer through my uh my uh gas masked canteen hose out of the canteen.
SPEAKER_02The stupidest frat on the planet.
SPEAKER_00It really is. Like you take all the worst things frats I've ever heard of. Because I am not a fan of frats in general, because I I ended up going to I went to college before the Marines and I hated it. Like I hated what frats were. I was like, you guys are fucking weird. And then I joined the biggest fraternity on the planet. Um so uh so yeah, I mean, and and no, we and I mean I I just remember some of our senior guys were just assholes, like just to just to be assholes, you know what I mean? Uh which in turn, I you know, I look back and you know, everything happens for a reason type of thing, it made our platoon very close. Yeah because of that. So it it made it made our group very close. So when those senior guys who timed out left, what was left was a very tight unit. And if that makes if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_01No, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely, yes.
SPEAKER_00You know, um so you know, and actually I was um I was actually on guard. I was you know, our the regular guard bullshit we do at the uh the barracks, barracks watch, um when 9-11 happened. And I remember remember the the the SOG coming down to say, hey, go wake everybody up and go wake everyone up, are all piled
9-11 Shock And Noble Eagle
SPEAKER_00in the uh the little squad, like uh the room or whatever you want to call it, and just watching and everyone going like we're fucking going to war, like everyone getting all excited, you know, and then we go to Japan. I mean for a very long time, yeah. After all the bullshit of like you know, the QRF kind of stuff we are doing at San Mateo getting ready because Operation Noble Eagle. Yeah, and I was like, I don't know, I I remember like, hey, our job's probably gonna be like to guard Disneyland, and I was like, what? Like, really? Like that's what we're gonna do? Yeah, I was like, okay, sure. During that time, I remember getting NJP'd because I went my dad had his his wedding and I got sent out. I I went home to his wedding, and they didn't it was leave they didn't want to give me, but my dad bitched to some senator or somebody he knew, which was only gonna get me in trouble. And I knew it was gonna get me in trouble. My you know this is only gonna fuck me pop, right? You know this is how I'm gonna get fucking bullshit for this. And then um, and then I got you know, restriction and all that friggin' stuff. I didn't get busted down, but it was just like stupid shit because I ended up getting stuck in a snowstorm because I'm from New England. I'm from the Massachusetts, that's where I'm at. Okay. So a flight, flight got delayed, so I was late a day, and they were pissed thing in the first place. So it was just an easy, like, okay, now we can really fuck with him because he didn't get home in time, even though I called the friggin' the guard and told him and told everyone, it didn't matter. I was gonna get fucked, but it is what it is.
SPEAKER_01So you had to do that while we were during during that time period when we're on like Noble Eagle or whatever, during that that f the fall of 01 or whatever.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Jeez, I yeah, they bet they were really happy to let you go.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah, that was awesome. Yeah, they were so happy.
SPEAKER_01Considering some of considering we weren't allowed to be like two hours away in some right, yeah, yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00So uh sucks. Yeah, that's that, you know, and then you know, we went to Oakie, which was a really long time, and doing a lot of I mean, we did a lot of really I thought we did a lot of cool shit over there. I mean, for as long as it was, but I mean, and then I I drank so much alcohol. Like I I I was never a really big drinker, and again, so I was I was already 21 years old in the military, so you know, so it wasn't like I'm an 18-year-old,
Okinawa Training And Heavy Drinking
SPEAKER_00this is my first opportunity to drink, and I'm really getting shit housed all the time. No, I'm 21 years old, I kinda have already experienced it, but I hung out with like Brisendine and Swafford and and Hodges a lot, and man, they could drink, and you know, also dealing with my own bullshit, you know, just I I can't can't remember many formations that I became too sober, you know, and then we ran like a motherfucker and just sweating it out, and oh god, it was awesome. You know, but we did some really cool shit, you know, the jungle training and all that friggin' great shit. And I mean, on ship wasn't terrible, you know. And some cool shit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, ship had its goods and goods and bads points as far as that went. Like you're sleeping on top of each other, so that was always bad, but uh and the smells were not great.
SPEAKER_00But you know, there was some like there was definitely some moments. I mean, there was crap, like people got a bunch of people got crabs because someone sat on the toilet, and I remember that happening, and I was like, okay, I guess I'm not shitting, or I'm gonna hover because I'm not getting I'm not this isn't happening. Yeah, and then and again, like luckily being a big guy, I couldn't fit in any rack that wasn't the top one. So I had plenty of room because I really I literally could not roll. Like, I don't remember many guys in our in our battalion that were bigger, like were bigger than me, because I was 6'4, 245. Like, oh yeah, I'm a I'm a big guy, so I couldn't roll over. And so I had to have the top bunk. So I lucked out in that in that case, but I mean those coffin racks.
SPEAKER_01I mean, even at five even at even at 5'10, and I was like Wendy at the time, I barely fit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they weren't built for big people, they weren't built for people in general, you know, you know, and then I don't know if you guys remember the there was the uh little the pot you know pocket lover that someone left uh left left behind and brown I think it was browns, and it and he and he ended up because he didn't know someone had used it, and it he ended up spilling it all over himself. Like some of the most disgusting things I've ever experienced, also in the Marines, like just yeah, absolute grossness.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, that's ship life for damn sure.
SPEAKER_00But you know, we eventually got home and and then uh the work up, we had some I thought we had some pretty good training. You know, I I find myself very lucky having Condi because I think Condi had a lot of type of mount warfare experience from coming from Fast Company. Yeah, so I knowing that it was gonna like for me, I was like, I know we're gonna go to war. I know I'm gonna be in this
Ship Life And Pre-War Preparation
SPEAKER_00situation at some point, and it doesn't look like we're gonna be fighting in the fields. And this was again, this is for coming from Condi, and it made sense to me. It's like we're gonna be fighting in a city, so this is what we need to know and need to learn. And I thought he gave us some great training, Gunny Mararke gave us some great training. Um, and I know I just really listened to that stuff really intently because I was like, I don't know what I'm gonna be doing over there, but this stuff all makes sense, and I don't know what the hell I'm doing. And again, we don't, you know, kids these days kind of know about that shit because of all the video games. I mean, there wasn't anything like that that kind of gave us that type of insight. Right.
SPEAKER_03That's fair.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, I I just remember l listening intently and taking all that training very, very seriously because I was like, if if I'm gonna go there and come back, and this is what I gotta do.
SPEAKER_01Did you get sent to any like division schools or extra schools after between Oki and uh Ramadi?
SPEAKER_00There was a couple schools, but I don't remember what they were.
SPEAKER_01Like I remember like people went to like corporal's course, squad lever infantry course, um I went to McMahon's course, I went maybe squad leader's course.
SPEAKER_00I also got sent to the language school. Um that's right because being being Jewish, I could somewhat translate Hebrew, not like great, but good enough, but I could understand they're like, well, if you can understand that language,
Language School And Hearts Minds Mindset
SPEAKER_00you can do Arabic. And I'm like, you do know they're two different languages, right? It's like completely different. They don't even they barely walk the same path, you know. Um, so and I remember going to that, and I think the teacher I had was from Morocco.
SPEAKER_03Oh, Jesus.
SPEAKER_00And um and you know, I again I took that really seriously because I'm like, Jesus Christ, like I'm gonna be responsible for translating for my platoon. Like, are you shitting me? Like, I I better and you know, I bought a pocket transl. I mean, I took it a pocket translator, I made sure I I bought my own, you know, Arabic, you know, to English dictionary, because I was like, if if I don't know it, you know, I I can probably figure it out type of thing. But also, like, he really talked about culture. So my mindset going in there, plus, you know, we were hearts and minds type of thing. That's how we how we were going in there. I'm like, okay, well, I'm supposed to be that bridge between us and there. I I better know what my job is, like, understand what I'm supposed to be doing, and kind of understand their culture. So it kind of put my mindset in a complete like I'm here to help them and help these people who are just freed from Saddam, this terrible person, and we're trying to root out the bullshit, you know. So I my brain was completely in we're here to help these people. So when we after that training, you know, and you know, I got back and was telling some people, and they're like, Silton, you're so full of shit. You know, I was like, I'm like, I was like, hey dude, I I'm not from Islam, I don't know Islam, but this is what this guy's telling me. So I gotta believe there's gotta be some good people over here, you know. It's not just about that, you know. And then um, and then the day that we were leaving was such a clusterfuck. Like, there was like some conic, like some of the conic boxes that we packed up didn't get filled with anything, like people just completely forgot. Like, I I want to say, like, a bunch of flax and and kev wires didn't even make it.
SPEAKER_02That was uh that was one of the line companies, not
Deployment Chaos And Leaving Family
SPEAKER_02us. We had all of our stuff, but one of the line companies, yeah, all their their armor got uh diverted and didn't show up until I I don't know if it ever showed up for to the deployment, but it didn't show up before we crossed the LOD.
SPEAKER_00But but during that time, you know, people are visiting with you know with their wives, and again, I'm married at the time. Um, my my wife was pregnant, um and you know, and my shit went missing. My shit and somebody else's shit went missing. And I spent the entire time running all over San Mateo getting stuff reissued and all this stuff to get my shit together, and I got to spend literally five minutes with my wife, who is hormonal, pregnant, freaking the fuck out, saying, Why is it you helping this person? And I'm like, Because it's not just his shit, it's my shit too. Like, I I I have to get this shit together, and she's fucking I can't remember many times how pissed she like I've ever seen her that angry. She was beside herself, and she's like, This is the last moments I'm gonna get with you until you leave. I'm like, I I don't know what to tell you, you know. But so that happened, then you know, and then and again, of course, everything we do is hurry up and wait. So it's like, hurry up, we're getting ready to go, and then we're just sitting there, and I remember like looking over at her, and we're I think we must have sat there for like an hour, yeah. And she's just staring at me from over there, and I'm just like, this is bullshit. I could be still talking to her right now, or at least spending some time with her because I didn't get to spend any time with her. Uh so and then we were you know out of there. I don't really remember the flight over there. Uh I just remember I think sleeping the whole time. But we definitely made some stops because I think our plane was a piece of shit. I think we did some kind of even when we were stuck one place, I think we actually went and PT'd, which I thought was the dumbest shit in the world. Like it was, I think it was winter time. We were in like New England area.
SPEAKER_02It was we're in New New Jersey. Yeah. And uh running in running in the snow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And I was like, this is the dumbest shit. Like, we're running in the fucking snow. Like, we're going to a fucking desert. Why are we running in the fucking snow?
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, okay, like we're gonna get that out of shape in fucking the couple days trip. And again, I you know, I I'm I was all good with PT. I obviously being a big guy, I wasn't a fan of ever running, so it was like running at all in the snow. I was like, this is just stupid, you know. But um, and I remember there was a uh, I think it was like Fernie and Munaz, it was the first time they'd ever even seen snow, so they were happy as a pig and shit. I'm like, dude, it's fucking snow.
SPEAKER_03Like, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I was born in Maine and I was mostly raised in Massachusetts. I've seen snow my entire fucking life. Like, I don't we don't need to do this, you know. But I think we eventually made it over there, and we're when we were in Kuwait, um, where I thought we did a bunch because we were there for a little while for like to acclimatize to like the weather and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um which I still this day don't think you really can prepare for that shit. I think it just takes over, it doesn't. Plus, there was such extremes in temperature, like it was freezing at night and it was hot as balls during the day. Like, how do you acclimatize to that?
Kuwait Heat Gear Scrounging And Vehicle Doors
SPEAKER_00You know? Uh, but I think we did we did some more good training. I think uh Condi ramped it up a little bit more, you know. I think we are like drawing buildings in the sand and like pretending breaching and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_01We did a lot of tape, a lot of tape houses, at least we did.
SPEAKER_00Um and that in those in those huts, those makeshift tents were terrible. Uh I remember I think it was Vigil and I might I think it was Vigil. I think we paid Vigil like 20 bucks to tase himself in the nuts. Andy did it. Like I remember how high he jumped, and I think, you know, and again, everyone's always you know wrestling and fucking around. Cox definitely got tased in the ass a couple times. Um and then I remember getting a bunch of gear from the army guys that were leaving, like they just gave shit away.
SPEAKER_02Well, they had they had like a dump site, which was it again made no sense. But there was literally just they would just drive their Humvees up and dump it in big giant containers, and we were over there looking like the Beverly Hillbillies, just going through everything and taking everything out. And uh, and everybody was like, Yeah, you can take whatever you want. Like, we're gonna this is either gonna be destroyed or shipped away or whatever. We're like, this is all brand new shit. So we just started taking stuff.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like I I I think I I took an aim point from from one guy, yeah, and I'm like, You're just giving me this? He's like, Yeah, dude, I don't care. I'm like, wow, awesome, thanks, man. You know, like I I you know, it was it was that kind of stuff. And I mean, in retrospect, you think about this, and then the billions of dollars of equipment they just leave in another country and fly away. You're like, really? You guys couldn't even give us some decent shit?
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00You know, like we had to scrounge for scraps and we were excited about it, you know. But I mean, again, that was just stuff they always told us was you know, was that kind of stuff was just like, hey, we make do, you know? That's part of our lethality. Yeah, we get we get we get hand-me-downs and we make it work. I was like, okay, that's sounds good to me. Uh and then uh and then we I remember driving up. And then I I do remember before that though, I think we uh I think a bunch of you guys manufactured some like half doors.
SPEAKER_02We we took those from a national guard unit. We didn't make we didn't make any half doors in Kuwait. Um we did weld a few turret mounts, and and we might have actually we might have welded like one or two doors, but not many. We got a whole bunch of them from a national guard unit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but they were they were definitely makeshift.
SPEAKER_02They weren't like oh no no they weren't right, yeah. They weren't built in a factory, no.
SPEAKER_00Okay, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02No, no, no. So the three the three-quarter doors were you're right.
SPEAKER_00I do remember those, because they actually had even like a well, they started with like the like a almost like a silicone caulking along the edge.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00You know, but that was like black because they were like green. But but initially we were supposed to go over with no doors because we thought like the dismounting, and I was like, I was like, what the fuck are we you talking? You know, like as as good as our leadership was in some ways, and other ways, I was like, what the fuck are you thinking talking about? You know?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it it I think I feel like it falls down, it definitely came to um I don't know, sort of the same thing we heard from everybody. Everybody always thinks that their unit's gonna do it better, we're gonna be faster, stronger, we're gonna be better than everybody. This is an idea that nobody's ever had. We're gonna face outboard and be able to dive out of the vehicles at a moment's notice, and having the doors off will make us look more lethal. And uh having you and I both were in anti-armor platoons our our the whole three years prior. I trained in a vehicle my whole Marine Corps time, which wasn't a lot, but it was a few years. I never had a problem getting out fully geared. Never, never, it was never a problem. I definitely wanted a door.
SPEAKER_00Well, and that so I being in third squad, I was one of the drivers, and I was always the rear vehicle like the last vehicle. So being the last vehicle, not being the last vehicle, but being a driver, I was like, I I need a fucking door, like I'm not facing outboard looking for enemy, I'm focusing on the fucking road. So I would really love a door, yeah. You know, yeah, but but we but we ended up, you know, greater minds, you know, said, you know what, we're gonna do doors. So that was fantastic. Had doors.
SPEAKER_01I love the Marine Corps so much. That this is that was even it's not that we were asking for anything. Wait, wait, wait, could I have a door? Just a door. A door.
SPEAKER_00So then um uh but I remember driving up and we uh where we were stuck, we stopped somewhere and they're like, oh, go in the tent. Can I was like, can we just at first it was like we're gonna sleep on the ground? And I I remember, like, do you remember those pictures of camel spiders?
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I was I'm not a fan of bugs in the first place. I just don't like them. And not that I have a fear of them, I just don't like them. Like, I don't like you know, some people like to play with you know the Brazilian cockroaches and spiders. Now I'm not one of them. I'm like, get that thing the fuck away from me. It's a fucking arachnid. Like, I don't want anything to do
Camel Spider Panic And Early IED Lessons
SPEAKER_00with it. And I remember how big those motherfuckers were. So I was they're massive, yeah. And again, you know, we're for the most part, we're we're a bunch of dumb grunts. And any story you fucking tell me, most of us believed. So, you know, you didn't have the like internet or AI to check is is this true? You just saw fucking pictures and were like, fuck me. Like that thing's enormous. It's a fucking dog spider with the biggest teeth that burrows in your skin and like eats its way out and lays eggs on a camel, which is bigger than me. So everything was gonna bite me and like take off my fucking arm. Like, I'm all set. So I was like, I'm not sleeping on the fucking ground. Like, I'm the driver, I get to sleep on the truck. Uh I'll sleep in the cross. I'll I'll see, I'll sleep sitting up, and they're like, oh no, we found a place to sleep. And I was like, okay, great. So we had cots and we go in there, and I remember going to the bathroom. Uh, who was it? I want to, I think it was Ortiz or Brown. And we were going to the bathroom, and I saw this thing creeping along the ground, and I fucking slammed, like I butt stroked it, and all I remember was like its legs coming up and grabbing the buttstock of my rifle and me shaking it like a motherfucker to get it off. And I took off. And you were supposed to go everywhere, the battle buddy. Yeah. And I left them in the freaking bathroom. And they're like, Where, where's like I think it was Brown or Ortiz, and and they're like, they're in the bathroom. And they're like, Why are you here? I'm like, because a giant fucking camel spider was attacking me. I was freaked out. Like from then on, like I was even more freaked about these insects. I was like, oh god, like just don't let that thing bite me. Like, if that thing bites me, I'm gonna die, you know.
SPEAKER_01I'll take that machine gun bunker by myself, but fuck that spider. Yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00100%. So we had the drive up. I I don't remember really any engagements on the drive up. I think we made it there pretty safe and sound.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Uh and got to hurricane point, which I I mean I didn't I wasn't really oh, and we I do remember going to a class for about IEDs. Yeah. I I did remember we I also went to that. I don't know if it was a class or a school that I was.
SPEAKER_01It was just a pre it was just a presentation.
SPEAKER_00Yep. Yeah. And I was which I found comical because I was just like, really? This is what you think everything's gonna be? Like filled up soda bottles and st and coat cans, and I was like, okay. And if it and I and again, I wasn't being an uh an a 51, I was demolitions and anti-tank. So I was like, I mean, that you know, sitting there thinking I'm all smart because you know, hey, I've done demo, I I know how to make water charges and I know how to play deck chord and C4, and I'm like, that's we're in trucks, we should be okay. You know, and of course, you know, everyone's like, oh, you gotta have like a 200-foot offset. I'm like, yeah, for like the one piece of shrapnel that may come, but uh we we that class was wrong. Uh you know, but and and I I maybe I heard it in your podcast, heard it on a prior podcast, but I like a lot of their information on that kind of stuff like came from like I don't know, was it England or something? Or or so we had both.
SPEAKER_02We did have the Brits who are they were showing us examples of what they dealt with in Northern Ireland with the uh with all their problems that they had there with the IRA. And then the other the slide deck that I think you're referencing is the the IED trainer team who came out. I I I say that very loosely. They were probably super awesome later, but they really did not do much. So there was two parts to that. There was the slideshow that you're referencing where it which they like a yeah, like a Pepsi can stuffed with nails and a little bit of copy. And then the other one was uh it was literally wires coming out of a dead cow. And I was like, you could see that from its far away, like there's no way I'm not gonna see that. But that was a real picture from that was from an IED they had found in Iraq where they had stuffed uh uh, I don't know, some kind of explosives into a cow. But then they had the we walked the backyard, they had made uh makeshift IEDs and put them on a trail. Oh wait, I forgot about that. Yeah, that was the other half of that class. But they were so they were so obvious. Also, it was our backyard. So we had been back there. But we had we had also been back there every day for years. So I already knew what was back there. And so it was like, they're like, I was like, that's an IED. They're like, how do you know? I was like, that's not supposed to be here.
SPEAKER_01That wasn't here 15 minutes ago.
SPEAKER_02So literally we're grunts and we police call every day, all day long. That's a PepsiCan. It wouldn't be here, right? Yeah, so that was the it was very unrealistic. I'm sure it got better later, but it was it was not the walk.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, overall, uh looking at that deployment, I mean the reality is I don't think anyone had a frickin' clue what we were going into.
SPEAKER_03No, you're correct, painfully obvious. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Um, and again, it's it's kind of you know, I don't think it's really anyone's fault because they just don't know. Correct. You you don't know until you do know, and it what and and I don't think it was, hey, this is what intel Intel brings. Like, I really don't know how you would have got great intel that that's what they were gonna do anyway.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, it's kind of adapt and overcome. Like that's just what you gotta do. You gotta deal with it and move on. I mean, that's why these guys drive around in giant Moab armored vehicles and and not thin-skinned Humvees. Yeah, no shit. This was a bad idea.
SPEAKER_02Uh so well, you kind of talked about uh you talked about getting to Hurricane Point. Any first impressions?
SPEAKER_00Um, I mean, I I thought Ramadi was an absolute shithole. Um again, uh it's it's perspective, you know. Like I'm from a nice town in New England, you know. I I say white picket fence like, you know, where you know uh at the time a
First Impressions Of Ramadi And The Palace
SPEAKER_00huge population was almost all white. There was very few black people, uh very few anything else, you know, and a very relatively safe community, you know. Uh, you know, you had there's some cities that were a little bit shittier, but nothing crazy. You know, my first time going to Camp Geiger, seeing some of the neighborhoods where people's houses were smaller than the shed I had in my backyard. So perspective-wise, where I was when I went down to Jacksonville, I was like, holy shit, like that's someone's house. Like I have I literally have a shed in my backyard that's bigger and actually has a floor. Some of those houses have dirt as their floor. So I was so then you go to Ramadi, where everything's feels like like it some of the buildings look like they were actual concrete blocks, but a lot of it they look kind of like stacked mud. Like, I don't know. Like I just thought overall it was definitely urban, you know, it was definitely s a city because I I remember like what they say it was like 400 or 500,000 people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, 400,000 is what we were told, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You know, so it was a it was a big and it was a big area, you know. But I just remember driving in and seeing those arches, and I was like, wow, that's pretty that's fucking impressive. And you know, and then you know, keep driving, you're like, oh wow, this is kind of a shithole. And then you're like you're looking up and you're seeing the wires like everywhere, like as far as electricity and power running, you know. I was just like, holy rat rat's nest of like that's gotta be a nightmare. And then the sewer literally running align the road and like this half. I was like, that's disgusting. Like, so I was really grossed out. Like, I'm a I'm not a clean, I'm not a clean freak, but I don't like to be filthy. So you know, I and if I'm like, hey, we're going out to the field, we're gonna get dirty and do that shit. I was like, cool, let's go do that. You know, and then get back. I want to get clean, you know. You know, there I was just overall, I was just like, this place is an absolute shithole. But when we got there, the whole place wasn't full of bullet holes and you know walls taken down from Mark 19 or AT4s or Javelin Fire or Toes. It just it it was an intact city when we got there, right? You know, uh, and I think some of it was kind of I found kind of picturesque because I think was it Route Nova? Was that the one that was like was closest to the west river, the west part of the river?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. So it ran Euphrates, yeah, it ran almost the whole duration of the Euphrates and until it became Route Apple way later. And east side.
SPEAKER_00But there was a bunch of palm trees and fields, and and I remember driving, I was like, oh, that's kind of cool, you know. So it was, you know, being the fact that we drove through so much fucking just nothing, and then you get to a place and it's kind of like, oh, okay, this isn't it's terrible. It's kind of the city's kind of gross, but you know, I I was like, wow, this okay, this is home for the next six to eight months. Cool, you know, and I thought it was cool that we took over was it Saddam's Sun's Palace or something like that. Was that what Hurricane Point was?
SPEAKER_02I think I was told it was a general's palace, but it it could have been it could have been one of the Sun's palaces. I think the Sun's Palace was where the Hilo pad used to be, but it had got bombed and they had pushed it off mostly into the river.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_02There was formerly a building there before it was a helopad.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, I so I just I just remember that uh initially being told like that, you know, what weapons company you're gonna be going to the the palace or whatever, and I was like, Oh, cool, we're gonna stay in a palace. Well, then we see our fucking huts, and I was like, really? Like this is home, and we had those canvas like roofs, and I was like, wow, this fucking sucks. And I don't think we initially had AC.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I don't know if your hooch did or not. Some did, some didn't, and they didn't all work. Even the ones that had like four or five AC units, only one would work or two would work. It took a while to get them all going.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so initially it it didn't work. I just remember it not working, but um, and then you know it had a bathroom, but none of the none of the plumbing worked, like none of the plumbing. And even the showers didn't work initially, which I think was being fed by like a gravity well or something like that.
SPEAKER_02Correct, yeah. The there was a tank on the outside that was just gravity fed.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, and which I don't know how fucking complicated that really is to make work, but again, it wasn't working, you know. So we just had the porter shitters outside, which were always fucking infested with fucking flies that to this day I've never seen anything like it in my life. Um yeah. And then I don't know, it's at some point I know we got metal roofs, and I and I use metal loosely um because they were like 10 or something.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was it was basically an insulated shed roof, it was no different as far as the the quality of the roof. That was middle of May. Yeah, we went through all of all of March and all of April with those fucking flapping canvas roofs.
SPEAKER_00We had them that long, yeah. Like, man, I didn't I didn't even think we had them that long. It felt like a very short time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah because you know we were busy, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I was we were distracted, yeah. Uh I remember the the thing that was cool about when we got those roofs though is my wife sent us a bunch of that great stuff in slating foam.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh because even when you had those roofs, there was still a gap.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So she sent us like 10 cans of the great stuff, and we just filled all the cracks. Which when we finally got good AC units, I remember it being like, okay, this is actually hospitable in here.
SPEAKER_02You know that's awesome because we did it the ghetto way. We used we got old bed sheets and soaked them in mud and stuck them in there and made caliche clay ceiling, basically. It still worked, but your way was way better. You always had the best shit, man. You got sent all of the best care packages. That's what I remember.
SPEAKER_00Oh, my my I my wife was and was a for me, she was absolutely fucking amazing. Like I she always sent because I smoked like a fiend back then. She always sent tons of cools because I smoked cools. I think you were Newports.
SPEAKER_02No, I was cool.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you were cools too.
SPEAKER_02We smoked the same brand.
SPEAKER_00Oh, Latham was Newports.
SPEAKER_02That's
Care Packages Food Trades And Getting By
SPEAKER_02right.
SPEAKER_00Um and uh and then she would always send plenty of dip, and she would send porn magazines, and she would send whatever I asked for. And um I thought the food there was absolutely terrible. Like the stuff that was brought to Hurricane Point. When we went to Blue Diamond or or went off off base, it was fantastic, but ours was always Was it T rats? Or it was sometimes it was it was terrible, and I was like, I am not eating MREs for fucking six months. I just can't.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_00So my wife sent the easy mac and cheese, microwave mac and cheese. And do you remember those packages that had the tuna and crackers in?
SPEAKER_01Hell yeah. Hell yeah.
SPEAKER_00I don't mean she'd like send a couple. She would go to the market and say, Hey, I need one of your cases of this. Uh-huh. And she would take and send entire cases to me of that. So that's literally all I ate was mac and cheese and friggin' tuna.
SPEAKER_02I so my my wife had sent me like uh canned fruit and other stuff, beef jerky, different things like that. And I remember coming over, we were trading like it was prison. Like I distinctly remember being like, dude, I've got some canned peaches. You're like, shit, I got tuna. And like literally like making deals. Yeah, that's why I remember your care packages because we would trade all the time.
SPEAKER_00Oh, and and the thing the only thing that gets kind of sucked was packing that stuff to go out because it was like, you know, Emory's are just they're obviously easy to pack. You just throw them in a sack, you're good. It's like, all right, I gotta make sure this doesn't get punctured, it doesn't explode in my bag, you know.
SPEAKER_01So uh you gotta take your school lunchbox to war.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but you know, and and then you know the good thing is is we had plenty of good clean water because it everything was bottled because you can't you couldn't drink anything over there. So uh, you know, that was good, and you know, little flavor packets to throw in there every once in a while to try to make it taste like something else.
SPEAKER_01Oh man, I just remembered I I forgot I used to make sun tea all the time. Oh yeah, yeah. Oh man, I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_02Which is funny. So all the all the worry now in 2026 about microplastics, and literally we were just those bottles would be out there, the sun. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Microprocess was a food group for us. That's exactly right. Yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_00Uh yeah. And then I remember I didn't go out on the left seat, right seat when they did that initial one.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, but a bunch of I think it was like Cond, I think Condi, Williams, Lachard, uh I think a couple machine gunners. But and I I'm gonna leave out his name, but one of the machine gunners uh who got contact, he ended up having uh I don't know, uh I think I don't know, and again, all most of our platoon was 17 and 18 year olds. I mean they were they were kids, you know. You know, and again, I mean 21, I'm not an old, I wasn't an old man at that point, but I I definitely perspective-wise understood that they were kids, you know. Straight, you know, like I lived on my own for a little bit, you know, I'd gone to school, so I a little bit of experience, you know, not being taken care of mom.
SPEAKER_02And you had three years in the Marine Corps, which three years in the Marine Corps is like 15 years, it's like dog ears, right? It's just exponentially more experience.
SPEAKER_00Right. So so I don't I mean at the time I def I know I had a completely different take on the on his feelings, but now I look back, he was a kid, and it was just overwhelming for him, I think. And he I think he ended up getting separated from our I don't know where he ended up going, but he got separated from us.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know you I know you're talking about as far as I know, he um he had counsel from a few junior NCOs, and then he got a little counsel from some senior NCOs. He stayed with headquarters for a little while, and then I don't know what happened to him after that. I really don't. I don't know if he got sent back to the States or if he I don't know. I don't remember him finishing the deployment with us.
SPEAKER_00Well, I mean I I'm not a super religious person, but I I hope he, you know, I know he was he became very religious at that point.
SPEAKER_03He did.
SPEAKER_00And and at the time, like I said, I I know I did not treat him very well. I was I was really angry with him. I was like, you've got to be kidding me that you you're doing this to our to us. You know, I took it very personal. Sure. But now I look back on it, I just you know, I I hope he find he can find forgiveness for us, and because I know he wasn't treated very well because of that. I I hope I hope he found some peace and understands that, you know.
SPEAKER_02Well, and and interestingly, like from what I remember of the story, by all rights, I mean, he did his job, right? He was he was a gunner, returned fire, took down the enemy, like was but did all the right things, just he just got shook afterwards. And I mean, dude, I I yeah, as you said, we were all we were all kids, really. You don't know what's gonna happen, how you're gonna feel after all that. And he got hit. I mean, they got hit,
Early Contact Stress And Coping After Missions
SPEAKER_02you guys got hit hard early. You were I to my recollection, you were the first platoon to have combat action because you were talking about the left seat, right seats. They got hit during that, so they were the first ones to get into a an actual two-way gun range. And then I mean, you got into another gunfight a week later. Like you you guys were very early with your exchange of fire.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and actually in 2004, I wasn't 21, I was 24, so you know, six years older, you know, wife and already one kid and one on the way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's a it's a huge difference.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so at the time, again, I I know I didn't treat him very well. Um, but I apologize for that and hope he can forgive us, and I hope he found peace in it. But uh, but he did. He he did his job, he did what he was supposed to at the time. It was just the after effects were too much for him. Yeah. Which I look back now and I get it.
SPEAKER_01But in a lot of ways, I'm surprised more guys than I have more issues. I know there there was there was a handful, and I know that there was once or twice that I asked to keep a guy back because they're they weren't in the right head space. But I'm surprised more I mean the intensity that we saw and then the breaks, I mean, in the moment, as you're saying, even with for the guy, I mean, like in the moment, you can rise to the occasion. It's just the the mental fuckery that happens when you have you have enough time to think. And then getting yourself geared back up and be like, all right, here we do it again.
SPEAKER_00That's what I think. Like it's almost like you and I I think that was something to a lot of the guys is because we are always you know in each other's hoochas and talking to e talking to each other, and you know, hey, we when we get back, we we gotta throw on like the notebook. I know that was one movie we watched, it was like get out of don't be thinking about just what just happened, like let's move past it, you know. Or for a lot of times it was just go to sleep, you know, because I mean chow's continuous and get sleep whenever you can because you never know what's gonna happen, you know.
SPEAKER_02I remember uh it was uh Corporal McCabe that was in my platoon, and he was like, Sleep is like a time machine, you can cut this deployment in half if you just sleep all the time. And I was like, I can't sleep. I have been an insomniac my whole life, but I fucking that's genius. And he would, man, he would go, right after mission, out like that's genius.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I unfortunately I'm not a a huge sleep, I'm still this day not a huge sleeper. I mean, if I can get four hours of sleep, I I feel good. Yeah, you know, uh which everyone else in my family can completely hates. You know, they need eight to ten hours of sleep, or they are imbearable. Uh I mean if I get four hours of sleep, I'm good. And I don't know if that was because of the military or just genetically, that's how I work. I don't remember. Uh, if you know, if I was like that when I was younger, I can't recall. I just know now I need very little. And at that time I needed very little to feel recharged.
SPEAKER_02Yep. Well, so uh let's roll right into it. What were some of your do you what do you remember for some of the early missions? I mean, you talked about left seats, right seats, but you weren't on it. What uh what about the rest of it?
SPEAKER_00So you know, with the hearts and minds thing in the beginning, I remember going to some open airs and giving out soccer balls and candy, and and I I know a lot of guys, I was really pushing like because a you know, a lot of guys' mindset was like, you know, fuck these
Hearts And Minds Patrols To Dysentery
SPEAKER_00people, you know, but at that time we weren't receiving heavy fire from everybody, and you know, I at that time I truly believed it was like, hey, there are some bad pockets, but not all these people are bad.
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00And um so that was my mindset for a lot of that, for a lot of that that whole beginning. Um, I remember going out to like help rebuild a school with some engineers, and then being so pissed because hearing about the next day that they blew it up or something. And I was like, Are you shitting me? Like, we're trying to help. And then, you know, rolling through the city and knowing, hey, if they wave their left hand at you, it's like giving you the middle finger. And I'm like, they're all waving their left hands at us, or if they show the bottom of their feet at them, you know, you know, that's like also giving the middle finger. I'm like, well, they're all doing that too, you know.
SPEAKER_02I do remember uh we passing teenagers, and uh they'd be all smiling and waving, and you look and they're waving their shoe, and it's like, all right, fuckers.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and and and the thing, and I remember because I think I want to say there was some early news crews that were with us, and I remember one or you know, once or twice talking to my mom or or my dad, and they're like, everything's they're always waving at you guys, and I'm like, Well, I don't know if they're doing a flip and stuff, but they're waving their left hand, mom. It's they're like giving us the middle finger, you know, and they look like they're happy. And I'm like, uh, kinda sorta, not like you know, it was it was like I, you know, I she was like, Are you receiving any action? And like, you know, I it was again, this is the early time like, not really, you know, it's pretty quiet. And uh, and I I just remember like Condi, that was one thing he had preached, is like it doesn't help them help your parents, it doesn't help your wife to tell them what's going on here. So try to paint the best picture you can and and try to stay positive, otherwise you're making their hard enough for them thinking about you possibly getting shot or injured, you're you you gotta paint a good picture for them. And I was like, so you want me to lie? And he's like, he's like, you're you're telling them the truth they need to hear. I was like, okay, it it was a great perspective, and it's what I ended up doing the rest of the time, because again, my wife was pregnant and hormonal as a pregnant woman, so I was like, I gotta make this seem like everything's dandy, you know. So so I just I remember doing a lot of those operations in the beginning, and and I thought it was you know, going to the government center, and you know, I I don't remember if it was early on or later on, where like I think we ate with some people. It had to be early, it had to be before April because I remember I got dysentery. Like I was shitting blood and coffee grinds for days, and I was I was a I was a mess. And it was a hundred percent from eating that fucking food. Oh yeah, that uh again like you don't think of it like they're like, hey, don't drink the water, don't you know ingest that stuff because it has bacteria in it that our stomachs can't handle. It's like, oh, okay, that makes sense. Well, then we ate with them. What the fuck do you think they cooked their rice in?
SPEAKER_03Right.
SPEAKER_00You know, and I don't care if it's boiling or not, obviously the shit's still in there because that shit fucked me up. I was a mess. Like, I remember one time looking in the shitter and I was like, oh, I'm shitting straight fucking blood. This is not good. And go to see Doc is like, Oh, you got dysentery. I'm like, Am I gonna die? He's like, No, we gotta give you some antibacteria and friggin' uh, you know, stay up with Doc with getting IVs to make sure you stay hydrated. And I'm like, but you'll be alright. I'm like, oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.