Constant Combat

Endurance for One Moment More - David Silton (part 2 of 3)

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We keep the timeline moving in part 2 with David Silton as he relives the IED on April 2 and the brutal stretch of fighting that follows in Ramadi. We talk through what it feels like to operate with a concussion, how split second decisions get made in combat, and why the rules and the reality sometimes collide. 

• IED strike, shrapnel injuries, and getting knocked unconscious 
• Concussion symptoms, memory gaps, and still going out on missions 
• April 6 heavy contact near Easy Street
• Improvised breaching, close quarters shooting, and finding a weapons cache 
• Army 113s arriving under fire 
• Mark 19 and .50 cal employment
• Time perception in long firefights and what it does to recall 
• Rules of engagement: compassion vs survival mode, and civilian casualties 
• April 10 bug hunt, Cobra support, lioness teams, and getting stuck under fire 
• Operation Treasure Island drownings, sleep deprivation, and hallucinating while driving 
• Training Iraqi police and doubts about the handover plan 
• Constant incoming and becoming numb to mortars 

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story. 


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SPEAKER_02

It's part two of our conversation with David Tilton from Mobile Assault Platoon 3.

SPEAKER_05

And then I think for me it really got kicked off. I want to say it was like April 2nd. Again, we were the rear vehicle, and uh we had an air officer with us.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

And I

April 2 IED And Blackout

SPEAKER_05

don't remember who the gunner was. I think it might have been Gordon. So in my truck, it was I was the rear vehicle. I was driving. Rapaza was the vehicle commander.

SPEAKER_04

Okay.

SPEAKER_05

We had, I want to say it was Gordon, but the thing was, is like we would try to rotate because we didn't have enough, we had more drivers and gunners than we did trucks. So we tried to rotate to get people rest, you know, who needed it. Um or in like some cases, like Neil at one point we just didn't let him drive anymore because he was just so bad. Um again, I had my fair share of bad driver mistakes, but um, but so April 2nd, um we got hit with an IED, and I got I know I got knocked unconscious. I think I got a little bit of shrapnel in like my neck. And the air officer, do you remember that James Bond movie where that the Asian the Asian guy had his face was like all diamonds?

SPEAKER_04

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Where because something exploded in his face. Yeah, that's what this air officer looked like. Like shrap mill and thank god the eye protect like was it Wiley X's?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the Wiley X's, yeah. That was what we were all issued.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so and they were like, hey, these things are gonna save your life. And I was like, Yeah, okay, sunglasses are gonna save my life, but it did, it stopped the shrapnel from going in his eyes. I remember his face got peppered. A huge piece of shrapnel hit. I think we had a a Mark, it was a Mark 19 box because the ammo cans are much bigger on the Mark 19, and the shrapnel hit the ammo can. It knocked it. The driver went unconscious. I I want to say I think it was Gordon, but I I cannot 100%. But I got knocked unconscious, and I remember when we came to a a stop, and we came to a stop because we ran into the vehicle in front of us. I jumped out and just started shooting, and I couldn't hear anything. And I'm shooting because people are running, and you know, I'm like, that's guy, like I'm screaming, and then all of a sudden, like I think it was Muniz grabs me and pushes me in the truck, and I'm like, no, no, no, we gotta go. And he's like, no, we we are gonna go, because the truck was still drivable, because we would do that like inchworm, or we'd spread out and get tight and not stay in a straight line because the like they can time you if you stay in a straight line. I'm like, okay. So again, anything that I thought was gonna keep me alive, I really paid attention to and tried to do, you know, and I'm like, hey, if we're gonna get blown up, if I go like that. So luckily I know I was speeding up to catch up, and that's how it exploded behind us, and you know, well, behind us-ish. Um, but you know, the the Humvee got pickled with shrapnel and stuff and the air officer, but everyone was alive, but got in the vehicle. I think we went back to Junction City. Junction City was where they had like the big Met, the biggest, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was Charlie Med.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So we went there, and I know the air officer got checked out, I got checked out. Um, and again, I remember being completely fucking loopy because I get the way I got knocked out, I don't know. I just it really scrambled my brain, and I was just like completely out of it because it sounded like people talking like from Charlie Brown for like days, yeah, like won wa. And I was just like, uh what? Like, not knowing because kind of out of it. And I literally remember LeJard was like, you know, you stay with them for the next three days, and again, like knowing what we know now about concussions and TBIs and all that stuff, that definitely was not the best plan because we kept going out on missions because like I was good to go and I felt good to go, but they were like, Okay, you're not driving now, you're just gonna stay with them, like just follow them. I'm like, okay, like sounds good, but I know I was still not like I wasn't okay, you know. So and then I think I don't know, it was April April 6th was when everything really really kicked off, right?

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Um I think we were QRF.

SPEAKER_02

That was my understanding. You guys were day QRF, so you're first out the gate.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so Gulf, was it Gulf that got hit?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, Gulf had a platoon surrounded in the south of the city. Uh their QRF

Concussion Fog And Back On Patrol

SPEAKER_02

was on their way to get there, and they got pinned down by a different ambush. And so you guys went to go reinforce them in the south, uh, near-ish to easy street.

SPEAKER_05

So

QRF Rush Into Heavy Fire

SPEAKER_05

that was the the first, like, and I and I think this is the sixth, but uh happened on the sixth, but I'm not 100% sure. But the first, like what where we were actually completely opened up, we were driving on the street, and it again it could be on the on the sixth where we headed to them, but there was one of the roads, you know, we're going along the road, and it had this kind of like road that like wide off, and there was again a lot of the city had these like seven, eight-foot walls that were like lined almost blocks, and our kind of our platoon was kind of almost in half, where like half of it was past the wall, and half of us weren't past it, and we were staring down the street, and there was this like machine gun team right on the street, and I don't remember who called it out, but all of a sudden every machine gun turned left, and I remember the 50 cal punching through the wall, and the guy just disappearing, like, and I don't mean like he ran away, I mean he was a mist, like he was done, but I also remember a bunch of guys shooting at this vegetable fruit stand that I didn't see anybody at, but just made fruit salad, like, and I was like, why the fuck did you do that? And I don't know if it's like they just well, I couldn't shoot that guy, and I wanted to shoot something. I don't remember. I just that echoes in my mind, and I don't I don't remember if that was before, after, or on the way, but that was the first time I just remember all the guns just opening up and then getting I think was it easy street that we were on, yeah. Um, and everything kind of kind of got a little discombobulated there because that's where we started receiving like heavy fire. Um, I know a bunch, and again, so as a driver, I'm staying, you know, with the the truck. I'm you know helping you know make sure the machine gunner is covered as well. And like we're just shooting everywhere. But the first engagement I want to say was me and Latham like run out in the middle, again, terrible tactics. So uh I don't know what made us do it, but you know, we run in front of the trucks and we're facing down the street, and Latham get down, get like just again, and we're shooting down the road, and then we're stopping, and I just hear like these, and I'm like, what the fuck is that? And he's like, they're shooting at us, and we finally go recover. And I was like, What the fuck? Why did we do that? And he was like, I don't know, let's not do that again. And I was just like, Holy shit, that like just you know, like, I don't know, like as a young man, you just kind of feel invincible, you know, and until you you don't, and that was the moment I was just like, okay, like thank god they can't shoot for shit because oh the battlefire man, that was just fucking stupid, and uh so you know I remember uh a bunch McKenzie, Condi, I think Cox, maybe Latham, they like took off and trucks were supposed to go with them, but they didn't, and I don't remember why. And again, like there was definitely some I mean, I thought radio communication was fucking terrible, like so trying to figure out what was going on was basically kind of like a consensus thing, like, oh, they're all going that way, okay, we're all gonna go this way, type of thing. Uh and uh and then you know a bunch of shit was going on, and I then remember there was this one house that we finally figured out like we were getting a lot of fire from, and I think it was Gunny Crutcher. I think Gunny Crutcher was our uh platoon commander, yep, and he was like Silton, you know, take the gate, and I was like, cool. So we I you know drove the Humvee into the gate as hard as I could, and I remember there was this like

Ramming The Gate And Clearing Rooms

SPEAKER_05

bluish, like a Mercedes or like it was a nice fucking car that I destroyed driving into the gate. Um and you know, and then pulled out. We go in, and we were calling for Cox because Cox had the breacher kit. And um, and they're like, Where's where's Cox? And they're like, I don't know where he is, and I was like, Lathan, you ready to go? And he goes, Yep, all right, let's go. And because they had this like not like a not a porch, but like this maybe like four feet deep by like eight feet kind of cutout in the in the building where the door was. Does that make sense? Yeah, oh yeah, and I just got a and it was a solid wood door, and I just got a running start and threw myself into the door and just broke the door off the hinges going down, and thank God Latham was Johnny on the spot coming right over my ass because there was a guy right there with an AK ready to shoot, and Latham got him, and we entered the house, and you know, I remember having one guy, and remember that like uh that muzzle thump they they taught us to like right on the sternum. Again, this is the first time doing that, and just watching the guy drop, and I was like, damn, that that works, like you know, because you never did it to anyone, so yeah, like um, you know, it's searching the house, and um I remember all the the all the women in one room and they were completely freaking out, and um we kept searching, we found a huge cachet like under a floor, like under under a couch or a floor in one room. So we found the the a big cachet. Um but at some point, and I think it was after that, the army showed up, and I think they had because uh we were there to get the wounded out, but received such heavy contact we couldn't we couldn't get out, right? So that's what they sent. I want to say it was one one threes and Bradley's, but I'm not positive. It was definitely one one threes. I don't know if it was Bradley's too, probably not.

SPEAKER_02

To my memory, it was just one one threes, to but that doesn't that doesn't mean anything. I'm going by what you guys told me and a couple of pictures that I've seen.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so I remember them showing up and I was like, fucking thank god, because the one one I think the one one threes just had 50 cows on top. Um, but uh unfortunately when the army showed up, the very first truck, their gunner got hit. Um and they finished rolling up, and then I I want to say he was like a first sergeant or something got out, and he was like uh had the biggest like southern accent, and he was like, Oh, I love you motherfucking marines, you guys are crazy, and you know, and we're all like, Yeah, okay, and uh and then a bunch of the army guys get out and they're right up against the 113, and the 113 has uh reactive armor, so guys are shooting RPGs and all kinds of shit. And if it hits that and you're standing next to it, it's gonna explode. And the first time started yelling, you fucking dummies, get the fuck away from the truck and get yourself killed, to his guys, and we're just like Jesus Christ. But I remember we loaded up the the the injured, and I think somehow like um Staff Sergeant Repazo ended up like with them somehow, and we lost like he we lost him, and I think I think it was him and somebody else ended up in the 113s, and when they left, they left. Um I think we got a little bit of ammo from them and then kept pushing. And then I want to say Vigil, I think Vigil jumped in. And when we were drive driving someplace else, they had there was another ambush that was set up, and thank god we just drove we drove right through it because we I definitely don't think we had enough ammo. And again, con uh condi was hurt, but again, I say he was hurt, he wasn't out of the fight because Doc would he the doc tried to put him out of the fight, but he just wouldn't wouldn't stop. Yeah, um, he was like just pass me up and I'll and I'll go. And you Condi was not a super athletic individual. And I say that because when whenever I remember doing PT runs when we were in Oki, it wasn't natural for him. It didn't like when someone goes around, you're like, Oh yeah, he can run. Condi, it looked like work to to do it, you know what I mean? That's funny. Yeah, absolutely. It wasn't natural. Um so he would just you he just had that face, like, I'm just doing it. Like he had just like that, like I'm pushing through it face, and he did that when he ran, and because he's like, I it because he would always give me shit because I hated running. He was like, I don't like running either. I'm not good at this stuff, I just push. I'm like, okay, like my brain is not work like that. So um, but it was the same thing when he after he was shot and he got patched up, and I'm like, Are you good? And and he's like, you know, I'm good. And just like he would have that just push through face, you know. And again, it wasn't his normal face. So like when he was working, you could mentally you could just tell. It was like how some people um how some people just you can read, like you can read them like a book. Condi was that guy to me. Like I I could read him, like you you knew when he was in a good mood, you know. I knew if I was gonna go talk to him, like, ooh, not a good time, you know. Like, you know, I just he was that guy that you could, and and again, he just you know at that time he was just pushing through, and just it was really, you know, everyone in our platoon had a ton of respect for him already. But uh to take a hit like that where it rips a huge chunk of flesh off your shoulder, and after you know, now being an old man and already having three shoulder surgeries myself, I I understand the damage that can be done there, and the rotator cuff and all the muscles in there, so I understand how your body works and thinking back at that now, like, how the fuck did he do it? Because you know he tore through part of his rotator cuff, you know, part of his lat. So, how the hell did he have the strength to continue doing that? Um, he just said all I had to do was hold on to my pistol grip and my right arm did the work, and I'm like, oh okay. I I I guess, you know. But uh and and I I don't know why, but it just seems like that only was like 45 minutes, like it didn't seem like a very long time.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But I know I know that's not true.

SPEAKER_02

I would say the the time dilation is always very interesting in that uh sometimes moments feel like forever, right? You can like see everything, time has stood still, you can you can take everything in. But at the opposite, you guys were out there five or six hours, and and yeah, and that's what everybody says. Everybody's like, it felt like 30, 40 minutes. It's like, well, yeah, but you also went belly up on all your ammo. Like that's uh you were definitely out there five or six hours.

SPEAKER_05

You know, and I mean the the thing that

Mark 19 Precision And Ammo Reality

SPEAKER_05

was amazing was just how everyone just fought like just fought, like just did their jobs. Like our machine gunners were the only machine gunner that worked as a machine gunner that wasn't a machine gunner was Brown.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

And but um, but they were they all did a fucking amazing job, you know. Uh Kelly, I I significant I specifically remember Kelly because he had the Mark 19 and he was a fucking sniper with it, just like I I I want to say it was on the sixth, but it could have been on the seventh. I remember him hitting a guy, jumping over a wall, and blowing the guy in half, and his spine was what was keeping him from not falling off the wall, he was like draped on both sides, and I just remember being like, holy fuck, like and he was just so precise with that, and again, it and Pepper was fantastic, and Gordon was great, they all did a fantastic job, and if they didn't, if they weren't drawing on the spot whenever we were in that position, we would have been fucked, you know, or if we had lesser firepower, and again, every truck we had had a Mark 19 or uh a 50 cal. So everything was a heavy gun for us. We didn't have uh a two, I don't even think we had a 240 as an option. I think I think we had a couple, a couple saws, not very many. That was one thing I remember being very jealous of the army because they had these little saws.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, the paras with the folding stock. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

I I was like, that is the coolest fucking why can't we get any of that? You know, you know, uh, or even like some of the sites they had for like the 50 cal, because you know, uh I mean not for the 50 cal, but for the uh the Mark 19. I remember what some of the ODA guys showed up with the Mark 19. I was like, what the fuck is on your Mark 19? He's like, Oh, this is the site, so I just kind of can look here and I it for the I was like, that's ridiculous. Ridiculous. And again, none of our guys had that. So all of our guys mostly were firing by feel. Yep. And and and I'm I and I and I don't just mean map three, I mean our company was firing off like off of just feel. So to be that accurate and to do so well with that is just amazing to me. You know? And again, and not wasting 50 rounds trying to get on target. You know what I mean? The only time that was was that was at night, whenever we had like a night mission and trying to walk them on to the target. Like that was the only time where they weren't like right on because they couldn't even see because the scope, the night scope that they put on the 50 was fucking terrible. That wasn't even good.

SPEAKER_02

The Vietnam era starlight scope.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. That was from Vietnam era.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

It was awful. And I remember, yeah, I think Pepper had a 50, and I remember him like, this thing won't stop rattling. And just like trying to look through it, and it's all over the place. And like, but again, at the time, like you'd never seen anything. So it was like, oh, this is cool. You know, like, oh, these are the MVGs are are cool, even though they were fucking dog shit.

SPEAKER_02

They were awful.

SPEAKER_05

Uh I mean, so so yeah, I guess so the six was six, five, six hours, like, and I remember getting back and everyone was just so excited. There was so much energy, you know, from from going through that. So that was uh that was good to see. That was a good feeling, you know. And I I want to say, like, this that whole like that whole week was a lot of fighting, but it was there was no bitching, there was no moaning, there was no, you know, there's no taking a second to like other than the the incident with that one individual, everyone else just performed, you know, just did their job. Um even the guys that you thought were gonna fold, and that's the thing that always amazed me is like some of the guys that you thought were gonna be like fucking G.I. Joe, like the they look like the dude, and then they go to do the job and they're like, okay, they're not that impressive, and then the guy you have very little faith in just does his job, you know. So uh oh, Daniels, that was another driver. Did I say Daniels?

SPEAKER_02

No, but I yeah, I forgot about Daniels, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

But Daniels was this I mean again, I I I I'm a big guy, so a lot of these guys seem very little to me, but like Daniels was this skinny, kind of nerdy kid wearing the BCs, you know. Um, but he he did, I mean, they they all guys you just wouldn't expect to to rise to the occasion, they they did. Um and they performed admirably and and did a did a great job. I want to say Daniels was Gunny's Gunny Crutch's driver.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, if I remember correctly, uh Daniels was the only one with a confirmed kill with the Humvee, right?

SPEAKER_05

Uh actually, so I remember hearing that, uh, but I don't I I think I got one too.

SPEAKER_02

So well, so his was actually like called in as a confirmed kill casualty, like a real confirmed not so there plenty of people run people over.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that that was not that abuse. But his was confirmed, I guess. Because they called it into battalion for positive ID, which was hilarious.

SPEAKER_05

And because because one of the games we had on the Xbox and which he was always playing was Grand Theft Auto. Oh that's so running people over and doing that shit was so funny because he played that game all the time. So we were like, you got to do that shit for real. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god, that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_05

Um yeah, but like uh and unfortunately, I I think because of April 2nd, my brain beams, I don't think my my I ever really totally like it. My brain never really res like got the reset or heal. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02

So for sure not.

SPEAKER_05

I because I I know I got m multiple concussions during that deployment.

SPEAKER_04

Sure.

SPEAKER_05

And I think because that first one, they just like kind of piled, kind of compiled. So my my memory goes kind of kind of foggy in some instances. It's you know, some of the podcast has jog stuff. I'm like, oh yeah, I I I completely forgot about that, you know. So I know we had a bunch of like bug hunts and and stuff. Um you know, I I was there anything else about the sixth, seventh, or tenth?

SPEAKER_02

You like nothing specific that stands out uh to me. You guys had so I mean kind of the sixth was closer to easy street, the seventh, at least from the map and the after actions reports and the stuff you guys told me. Uh you were closer to the stalker stadium on that day, and you were you actually had the EXO with you on that day. Um again, I don't know if any of that stands out for any reason. Um yeah, and that I mean we can kind of move forward off of April if there's anything else that doesn't stand out to you, but the bug hunt, I don't remember what Map 3 did for April 10th, which was the first big bug hunt, but I imagine either you were part of the Eastern cordon or you were pushing behind the line companies because most of the actual action was with the line companies. All of us on the cordon ended up getting in firefights, but they're much smaller, like is a lot less.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, uh nothing completely stands out. I do remember doing something around the soccer field, and with the line what when the line companies were out there as well, and I remember if if the soccer field was because the way I remember it, if this is the soccer field, one road really ran along it, another one kind of came at an angle on it, and we were on the

Rules Of Engagement And Civilian Wounds

SPEAKER_05

back side where the angle was, and I remember a car coming up, and there was a bunch of people that were not they weren't dead, but they were riddled with bullets, and there was a guy trying to drive them to the hospital, and we and again, this is where like what I was saying, where my brain was at when we first went over, there was hearts and minds. I I constantly felt like a an ebb and flow of how I was I wanted to be very compassionate, but then you know, uh now I'm straight warrior, you know, put everything down, type like it. And I remember us loading up this car, and the guy wouldn't drive, and I was like, go, and he he's pointing because at the end of the street is a line company, and they're on top of the seven-ton, they had like a 240 golf, yep, and we didn't have any communication with them, which still I don't understand how how we would functioned in a lot of the cases because we had so little communication. But I was like, in my brain, I was like, listen, he sees this Marine that's on a 240 Gulf and all those guys see us putting all these people in a car, and they see us tell him to drive towards them. There's no way he's gonna shoot at them. And the car was riddled with bullets, and he stops after like literally like 10-15 feet and gets out to go grab water. That's literally just this huge jug of water when I say water, I mean brown, like it's to go pour in the radiator, and the fucking kid on the other end of the street shot him, yep, and I was just like, What the fuck are you guys doing? Like, we we just put people in a car, none of them had a fucking gun, none of them had anything, and you shot him, he was carrying water, so I don't know, like and I just like I was like, what I just felt like because we had very specific rules of engagement, and again, when we first went over there, they were real like I was like, wait a minute, you want me to wait until they fire a bullet at me before I can shoot back? Like I remember that was like the very beginning.

SPEAKER_00

Like they need to and I was like if I remember correctly, it wasn't even just they fired at you. You had it like like they were even like, well, don't shoot if they're like shooting over your head to be like annoying. Like they have to be shooting at like they need to be trying to hurt you, then then you can shoot back. Yeah, that was ridiculous.

SPEAKER_02

The lawyers that we met in the Jag guys that we met in Kuwait were Yeah, it didn't make any sense. But yeah, that's that's the that's the easiest way to put it. Didn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_05

And I remember it like kind of changing, and at one point uh I I just I remember them just saying, like, listen, if you get engaged, you engage them. Don't don't shoot people that don't have guns. And it's like again, to me, it was like, yeah, no shit. I'm not gonna shoot someone that's just existing, like women, children, like and again uh I I know there was there were several of women and children that ended up getting hurt and stuff like that, and uh, but that situation was just one of those things. I'm like, what the fuck are you guys doing? Like, you're shooting at someone who's unarmed, not doing anything, and they just drove like what do you think? We're sending an ID, a vehicle ID at you guys, like we're right here. We checked the car, like it just blew my mind. I that that's something that stood out to me, and I was just boggled. And that was the other thing that stood out to me because I never really looked at bullet wounds on because I know remember doc looking at them, and someone was like, No, doc, don't waste your time. And I got all pissed off. I'm like, dude, they're still fucking humans. Like, what are you fucking talking about? Like, doc, check them out. Can they get in the fucking can we can they make it? You know, and seeing the bullet wounds from M16s, like they looked like paper cuts, they weren't like they don't like if you think about bullet holes, like and that was the first time I I consciously can really remember seeing what our rounds did, and it barely looked like uh an injury, but there's blood coming out of them, you know. So that was just something that always stood out of my mind, and it was really boggled that I was like, wow, there's people out here that completely look at this thing completely different.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. There was a different mission, and I I don't remember if you guys were out for it or not. I know we were uh and this is later, this is late July. And that was where the rules of engagement started beat. This rules of engagement basically evolved over the course of the deployment, but that late July engagement, that was when uh we got the call over the battalion tech that any military age male was a target. And I I remember being like, I I don't know if I'm just I mean, I do they they don't think they know that, right? And that might just be this because he's just digging in his guard, like you have no idea what he's doing. He's he's he's working on his car. Like he has no idea that what's going on. He still has to live his life. It seems I I don't know that I'm gonna go house to house and just start killing anybody who's over the age of 17.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I remember struggling with that when I I do remember when that came out, and I was just like, I don't know if I can do that.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, if they're out and they're taking pictures of us or like at least like I can kind of like that makes sense. But yeah, just dudes walking down the street or sitting on their front porch, probably not gonna shoot them.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. You know, I you know, I and I and the thing was is because we also knew that they were stashing weapons from build in different buildings. So if they are running from one building to another, and they and again, this is I remember someone let one of the commanders like, if they're running from one building to another, just because they they think you're not gonna shoot them because they're not carrying a weapon, but they're gonna go pick up a weapon over there. And I was like, Yes, sir, like I but they don't have a gun. Like it was just, I don't know, you know, mentally I know I I kind of always since again, like since that language class and talking with that guy, I just constantly had this ebb and flow in my brain about compassion, compassion's out the door, now time to work, you know, you know, type of thing. So um, but yeah, I remember I I I probably on day April 10th, it was like we were probably like cleaning up the back. I just remembered there was a lot of there was there was because I think I want to say there was army out there as well.

SPEAKER_02

There was uh everybody was out there, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

So um, and and I again I don't know if it if it was later on, but we definitely had air support on one time.

SPEAKER_02

April April 10th was the first day that I distinctly remember Cobra flying overhead and firing.

SPEAKER_05

So I remember them firing at a target that we were engaging, then that was on April 10th, and I remember them flying over and us getting so fucking excited that we finally

Bug Hunt Day With Cobras Overhead

SPEAKER_05

had like air to help us.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05

And and and it was just like, fuck yeah, like being so excited that they were there. It's like, okay, like, because I remember they weren't gonna fire artillery into the city because of if because of civilians.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Uh 81s couldn't fire, you know, mortars for the same friggin' reason. Yep. So it was like, well, what kind of support do we have? And I remember I think it was Sergeant Williams or something. He was on the sixth, he was so pissed because they were trying to get air to come out then and they couldn't or wouldn't. Or and I think everyone was kind of like bullshit, like, what the fuck, dude? Yep. So uh yeah. Yeah. So that's kind of what I remembered during that time. I remember us doing something with the lionesses, and I was so perplexed because when because some of them rode in our trucks, and we were helping them load up, and they were struggling with loading one of them. I think one of them had a saw, the rest had like sixteens with like two or threes and stuff, and they were struggling getting like geared up. And I was like, this is who you are sending out with us, and because I remember later reading in like the Marine Corps Times or the Army Times or one of those publications saying how amazing it was, and it was like, I don't know how amazing it is, because I remember them saying that you know these are the best from their units, and I was like, these are some sad ass units because this is not very impressive right now. And you know, good on them for wanting to come out, and I know they helped because I want to say, like, they because we couldn't search women, yeah. And they I remember them get getting some intel that you know women were carrying things and stuff like that, and because we can't search them, or we were being respective of their culture by not searching them, they were hiding stuff, so that's why they started coming out. And on one of the was it the bug hunt that they were a part of, or was it another one?

SPEAKER_02

I believe they were there on the 10th, yeah. That that makes the most sense to me.

SPEAKER_05

The 10th was a long day, right? Because that was very all all day.

SPEAKER_02

Okay, so it started before sunup and and lasted until after sundown. It was all day 16 15, 16 hours, long, long day.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so it must have been towards the end of the day, and when they they were, I think they were on a rooftop with like with lathem and stuff, and all of a sudden, like it was kind of weird because like we were getting pot shots from somewhere, but it wasn't like a full, it didn't feel like a full engagement, and um I just remember the rooftop just going ape shit, like shooting rounds, and I want to say like Cox was kinda down that way, and he was like, Well, it might have been Cox or could have been Lechard that was like hiding behind a tree because the rounds were all going in that direction, and I don't remember all the rounds being terribly accurate in the right direction. Um so yeah, because I definitely remember we definitely got I think they went they dropped um um not flares in in the in the sky.

SPEAKER_02

Oh yeah, they hung Loom, yeah.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, yeah. So I remember them being loom.

SPEAKER_02

I I remember that being that was meant to be a show of force, which that never made sense to me either. I remember that. They'd fire loom in the middle of the day, like no sense.

SPEAKER_05

It it just looks like it wasn't nighttime, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, it just looks like a little parachute, a little little fire.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. And unfortunately, I think Echo Company was like across this swampy area. Well, the fastest route to them was going across this swampy area, that there was kind of a road in between. And I went pick, you know, with like, hey, we're pushing this way, and the the road was not wide enough. I don't give a fuck what anybody says, the road wasn't wide enough, and I kind of in the mud and got stuck, so we didn't know of echo company, I think. So I I remember getting stuck pretty good, and that was the first time I realized that our high back armor that they made wasn't that much armor because rounds were going through the motherfucker, and I was like, this is bullshit, yeah. This is just uh make you feel good, you know. Hopefully it's a deflection.

SPEAKER_02

Yep, yeah, it was supposed to ward off some of the rocks that got kicked up by the IEDs, I think. It was not necessarily to stop all the bullets.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah. So um, yeah. And then trying to think, I don't know, what that what are there any other big oh let's see.

SPEAKER_02

I'll I'll kick some dates around and see what uh what comes to mind for you. Uh rest of April was uh a little quieter. Um there was uh Easter Sunday memorial service, and uh and again I don't think that I don't think map one, two, or three went to that. I think the only one that went to that was Rainmaker, if I remember correctly. Uh the this this wasn't us, but it was near enough to us that we heard about it. Uh on April 28th was Abu Ghraib, when the

Drownings Search And 72 Hours Awake

SPEAKER_02

that chick was kind of messing with the prisoners, and then they did the mass release of prisoners. And we were like, oh great, now it's gonna become now it's gonna become fun again. And uh and that was accurate, right? So May 1st was Operation Treasure Island when those two swimmers from uh Fox Company drowned.

SPEAKER_05

I was so pissed at that because I was like, why don't they use a fucking zodiac? I mean that's what we all said. Yeah, we fucking had them, and someone was like, Well, do we don't want them to know? We I'm like, bro, we got fucking tanks and helicopters. You're telling me, like, don't even use a zodiac, use a fucking wooden robo. I don't give a fuck, but there were so many better options, and the thing was so I you know, lucky, lucky for me, I I was I'm a very social individual, and I knew tons of golf company, Echo Company, Fox. So I knew all these guys, and I and I now the life of me, I can't remember his name, but one of the guys that drowned, I was so angry because I was like, what the fuck are we doing? Like, you don't have to swim, use a fucking boat. It's it's not that hard. And that again, you know, I was just so pissed off at that, but on top of that. Then the three days looking for them I didn't sleep for 72 hours. I was hallucinating, like so fucking bad, and almost crashing probably a half a dozen times because falling asleep while driving.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Um and I remember I you know I I was always pretty good about you know not smoking when in a truck, you know, while we while we were driving and stuff like that, because you know, light discipline, the cherry, like I remember them like they can see the cherry and you're gonna light yourself up. And I was like, okay, don't smoke. Well, I so I dipped, but I remember during that time everyone was smoking and dipping and dipping while smoking, like just to try to stay awake.

SPEAKER_00

Long ass days.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, those were it was just so but again, like I felt very driven to just we gotta find him. Like, what if he's alive? What if what if they have him? They they can't do what they what they did in Fallujah, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, all those, you know, I just and then you know, again, I I want to say there's plenty of when you know talk later, we're like, why why didn't they bring in the swimmers earlier or why didn't they drain the river sooner? Because I want to say, like, where they swam across, one of them, like they said it was like a almost like a tornado underwater, kind of like pulled him down and back and got stuck under like a tree or something.

SPEAKER_02

Under something, yeah. I don't remember what, but yeah, they basically found him 10 feet from where he went across. Yeah, it was yeah, it got sucked straight down.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, it and and again, those guys weren't wearing anything, they were wearing a a bandolier, uh an M16 in camis. So they weren't wearing like flax or anything like that, they're trying to swim across that. But I was just I remember just being so pissed that I was like, that is just so dumb. That didn't need to happen.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then uh moving forward, uh, let's see. Uh Savage uh was killed on May 12th, and then we had the engineers uh that were I you guys actually weren't a part of this, but uh the engineers were killed, and then later that day was the high back that got hit um from Echo Company. That was the first I don't know if that was the the first V bid, but that was the first largest casualties from a V bid where quite a few basically the whole high back was combat ineffective and four were dead right there and all that. Um moving into June, some things that maybe, maybe you remember, maybe you won't, but that was when General Mattis was around. He kind of came to Hurricane Point, drove their LAVs through uh through Ramadi.

SPEAKER_05

I remember that I remember their LAVs getting hit, and I think we did a couple um a couple escorts with with him or some higher ups.

SPEAKER_02

I remember we did a couple of those just because we got to go to Blue Diamond,

Handover Plans And Police Training Doubts

SPEAKER_02

because I blue Diamond is where most of that was that was first Marine Division headquarters, that's why it was called Blue Diamond. Yeah, that was the that was the big Saddam's big palace.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, we remember going there for some chow sometimes.

SPEAKER_00

We were doing a lot of escort missions at that time because if you remember, we were supposed to hand power over to the Iraqi police and the Iraqi D ICDC on July 1st, and so there was a ton of extra missions of us higher higher-ups coming out trying to talk with the higher-ups of the Iraq on the Iraqi side during June, and then and that's when the governor got kidnapped, and the mayor, anyways, and there there was a bunch of weird stuff that happened in June, and then obviously that was grossly under you know, they it was not effective handing off the power.

SPEAKER_05

And it well, yeah, and I remember them doing some training. I wanna I want to say inside Fox Company, what was that Snake Pit? Yes, um they were training the police or training like who they were gonna turn over to.

SPEAKER_03

Correct.

SPEAKER_05

And I remember going over there and watching, and I'm like, oh my, these guys can't do a fucking they can't do anything. Like they it was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen in my life.

SPEAKER_00

And I was like, this is who's gonna take one of my favorite things is I was forever. One of my favorite things that I ever remember that you just brought up is um we were at the police station one time and they were gonna, and I don't remember why, but they were doing exercises and they were trying to get these guys to do jumping jacks together. Yeah. And not only not only could they not do like none of them were coordinated enough to do an actual real jumping jack, but they were so out of sync. You know, like it it was just it almost looked like they were doing it on purpose. They were so it was so in front. It was like watching it was like asking a four-year-old to do like get six four-year-olds in a group and be like, in sync, I want you to do jumping jacks. And then trying to watch that. That was I think American four-year-olds would be able to do it.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I a hundred percent remember because I want to say the other thing we we went over to Snake Pit was because they actually had a range they did that is short range to BZO.

SPEAKER_02

Like if you got a some people's weapons broke or whatever, or your sites got damaged, you would have to get a new weapon and you'd have to go over there to BZO.

SPEAKER_05

Because I remember like maybe a part of the deployment, they started giving out ACOGs. Yep, yeah, and I remember I got one and had to go over there, and I remember watching that, and I was just like, Oh my god, okay. Like, if we're gonna be in Romani forever, like this is who we're gonna have to turn it over to, we're never gonna get to leave.

SPEAKER_02

Yep. Um I mean, that's accurate. We we were there a long time.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so I was just like, You've gotta be that was just bad, really, really bad.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, and then uh things kind of shifted. We had uh you may or may not remember this, but we had a gas shell attack where there was a couple of gas shells that hit hurricane point. They ended up being CS gas, but nobody knew, right? It was gas.

SPEAKER_05

Uh those the rockets that hit the um that hit the conic boxes?

SPEAKER_02

That was later, but uh these were actual uh CS filled mortars that hit one hit right next to uh Sledgehammer's hooch, and then one hit the palace, actually hit the palace and

Gas Scare Incoming Mortars And Going Numb

SPEAKER_02

sprayed a bunch of gas. Anyway, it was it wasn't that big a deal, but if you were around, it was everybody was very scared, everybody had to go get their gas masks. Uh we all got reissued. We all had mop suits, but you know, like they're hidden wherever underneath your bed. Nobody's carrying them.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And uh yeah, had to go remember where our stuff was.

SPEAKER_00

And then we had to carry our gas mask for a while.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, I definitely remember getting mortared and to the point where I honestly I felt kind of numb to it, like it just really didn't bother me anymore.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

Because it was like, if it one, our the roof on our hut is not thick enough to stop something from coming through. And if it hits, it hits like there's nothing I'm gonna be able to do about it. Because we had that smoke pit that was right in front of between map three and map two. There was that smoke pit right there.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_05

And then we had the smoke pit in back, and I remember one time I I want to say it was at nighttime, we had a mortar that literally hit right outside our hooch near my like where my bet rack was while it hit outside. And I remember and we had it was one of those like there was multiple impacting mortars, and everyone got up, and because the the way the hoochas were, the bathrooms were their own enclosed area, yeah, and uh they you know put on flax and kevlars and ran in there, and I kind of got woken up and I was like, oh fuck it. And I just like pulled the covers back over my head. Like I was like, I'm not, I'm sleeping. Like I don't know what I didn't get I didn't even get up, and and it was more just I think I just felt very numb to it. Because I remember there was other times that there was out in the smoke pit and they're hitting, and I wanna say, I want to say it was you, like you and I were sitting there and they were hitting, and somebody else like got underneath the lower in the smoke pit, and we just kind of sat there like, what are you doing? Yeah, like it's gonna fucking hit, dude. We're fucked. Like, what does it matter? So it was just I got just very numb to it. Just like it was like it didn't affect you anymore, you know, which it's really fucked about what you can get used to, yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, someone did uh uh a couple different people have done tallies of when there was incoming, and then there were official accounts, and it was as best we can count. It was like basically every other day or every third day we were getting hit by incoming. And so you just you just give up. Like you're just like, all right, whatever. Like it doesn't matter when it's that many and we're not stopping it or slowing it down. Okay.

SPEAKER_05

It and and the fucked up part is more than what I want to say, more than once. I remember using the telephones that we had and being on the phone with my wife, and she was like, because every time, like incoming, like, didn't they cut off the telephones?

SPEAKER_02

They were supposed to, yeah, it didn't always happen, but they were supposed to.

SPEAKER_05

Yeah, so I was like, Oh, she was like, What was that? I'm like, nothing, babe. Um, I gotta run. I'll talk to you soon. Love you, bite. You know, like because I didn't want like I didn't want the last thing for her to hear was a mortar coming through the roof of uh the telephone thing and her hearing me get blown the fuck up. Like, I just as soon as I started hearing it, I was like, Oh, we're done. Yeah, you know. Um, yeah, I you just got none to that kind of stuff. It was crazy.

SPEAKER_00

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story.