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Constant Combat
This veteran-led podcast highlights the experiences of Weapons Company, 2nd Battalion, 4th Marines, starting with their harrowing 2004 deployment to Ramadi; a 9 month combat tour which resulted in the highest casualties in a single deployment - a deployment that most Americans have never heard about. Through candid conversations surrounding these events, the series also explores earlier experiences that shaped the Marines, emphasizing their grit, humor, and humanity while aiming to honor their stories authentically.
Constant Combat
The Warhorns Curse - Gavin Callais (part 2 of 2)
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Part 2 with Gavin Callais starts with April 7th contact through a wrong turn, an RPG that never detonates, and the slow realization that five hours have passed while ammo runs out. He also opens up about the bridge-post incident, the NJP that followed, and what these memories mean more than 20 years later.
• learning the city under fire
• the wrong turn and heavy contact
• an RPG lands nearby... failing to detonate
• Sergeant Neill’s calm under fire
• Operation County Fair searches
• “Bug Hunts,” rooftop attacks, and supporting exhausted line Marines
• heat injuries, IV bags, and the physical cost after engagements
• sweeping the dam with engineers
• responding to a VBIED scene and the devastation up close
• taking contact on Michigan
• stopping in a minefield and backing out in the same tracks
• Hurricane Point hooch life
• near beer raids, and the humor that keeps people steady
• end-of-deployment moves, combat takeoff, and the flight home
• the stress of later deployments, and being forced into leadership fast
• the bridge post, alcohol present, shots fired, and lessons about speaking up
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So uh I remember waking up on the 7th and I think it was pretty early. Uh we started hearing the gunfire in the city, and we were like, all right, it's gonna be any minute. I think it I think it was a little while before we actually went out though. Yes. Um I I remember hearing the gunfire, and I remember uh people coming in and out of the COC, and I I think uh either map one or 81's one of those those units went out first, I want to say. Uh let's see. Second day, I think it was still
Gunfire Starts And Orders Come Fast
it was still map three and rainmaker were out before we were. We were still third out. Okay. Yeah, I remember a couple, I remember at least one uh unit going out before we did. Uh and then I don't remember if it was Big Boy or Ten Stevens came over and told us to get geared up, we were going. And uh, you know, it was it was mentioned earlier in the podcast by a few people about the you know, like some of the younger Marines like feeling like they went out of the gate and not really knowing what was going on. And uh I feel like that was the case sometimes. I feel like Sergeant Jordan did a pretty good job of kind of explaining to us the the big picture, but not really, you know, any any details. And then there were some times where I was like, hey, this is what's going on, let's go. And no no indication of what exactly we were gonna try to do, or it was just hey, get geared up, let's roll. So on the 7th, I kind of feel like it was one of those days that was like, hey, get get your gear on, let's roll. And I remember getting to the gate, uh, going condition one, and I remember we just we roll, didn't have a clue where we were going in the city, which I didn't really know my way around the city at that point, anyway, not yet anyway. Uh and I remember we were we were making a lot of turns. I do know that. And again, we were the second vehicle, Randall was out in front navigating, and uh I remember Lieutenant Stevens was calling in checkpoints uh over
A Wrong Turn And Instant Chaos
the radio, and he was calling at a checkpoint, and all of a sudden he starts hitting the back of Tweeter's seat because Lieutenant Stevens always rode in the back seat behind Sergeant Jordan. Yep, and he takes the mic of the radio and he's hitting the back of Tweeter's seat and he's telling him no, tell him not to turn right here. And Randall turns and all hell breaks loose. So if I remember right, we pushed up and uh E my starts rocking on the 50. And I don't know how I don't know how this happened, but we ended up in the back somehow after we made the turn. Um we ended up going from the second vehicle to the last vehicle after we started pushing up the street. It was that was a weird intersection where there was it was basically like a there's like a four-way, but then there was another road that came in. And we basically we put a truck out in every on every road, basically like in a five-point star. Yeah, yeah. So I remember we pushed up initially because I think it mo I think Mosey was Randall's gunner, right? He was. Yeah, so I remember as soon as Randall made the turn and Lieutenant Stevens started yelling, you know, at Tweeter, telling him to tell Randall not to turn. I just I can see Mosey right in front of me, and I see him get down on the gun and just start laying rounds. So I hit the guys, we pull up on the side of them, and Emi starts going with the 50. And we dismount, we get behind them, he's providing rear security, and then the next thing I know, we're moving up the street, and we're the last time beat. We went from second to last. So Tweeter takes off, him and Lieutenant Stevens take off, and it's just me and Webster at the truck with Emi and the gun. And me and uh me and Webster providing rear security for Emi. And that street was pretty tight right there in the beginning when we started going down, and uh it was two-story buildings. So we actually had to get against the wall of the side we were closest to that E my was pointing up at to be able to provide rear security on the rooftops of the other side. So we were under like this little like shop, like uh little metal frames with little canvas canopy over it. Webster both on a knee against the wall, and uh Bundy was behind us. They had an alleyway that we had passed, and Bundy was posted up on the alleyway, and me and Webster providing rare security, and all of a sudden we hear an RPG go off, and all of a sudden, I hear this loud like bang on the wall between me and Webster. I look, and there's an RPG on the ground in between us, and it's just spinning. And it didn't and me and Webster both just froze, and all of a sudden I look up and I'm looking right at Richie in the gun, and he's waving at me and Webster. He's like, get away from it, get the fuck away from it. So we bound a little further down the street, kind of closer to funding. And when when this when this damn thing hit the ground and it started spinning, it was making like that uh it was making
The RPG That Never Detonates
like a like the sound, like it was spinning so fast. How it didn't detonate, I I do not know. Um but that was definitely some good luck there. And uh so we're posted up, you know, uh a little bit down the block from it, still providing real security. And now we're a little closer to Bundy. And Bundy's posted up on this alleyway, and he keeps saying, Hey, there's a guy popping up out down here with an RPG. And we're like, Webster's like, shoot him, and he's like, Man, he keeps popping out, but he keeps he keeps, you know, he's not he's not coming out, he's just popping his head out, but I can see the RPG. Well, at this point in time, I don't know where the hell they came from, but I remember I think it was I know it was Sergeant Neil, and I think Gunny Mware might have been with him. I think. Yeah, he was on the seventh. They dick as thieves on the seventh. So yeah, Sergeant Neil and Gunning Mware come walking up from across the street by themselves. I have no clue where they just came from, and they're just probably walking. Not mistaken, they were both left-handed, right? No, neither of them were left-handed, but they both would shoot both hands. They were both right-handed. I I just remember when they were walking up, the way they had their rifle slung, it looked kind of awkward to me. And so uh Sergeant Neil's like, what's going on? And Webster's like, Bundy keeps seeing a guy pop out with RPG. So Neil just walks over there like very nonchalant, very calm. You know, his demeanor never changed no matter what was going on. And uh he posts up on the corner where Bundy was, and he he aims his rifle down there, and we're just kind of looking at him, and all of a sudden, pop, he just shoots one shot, and he comes walking past us back to where Gunny Markey just stays standing over by us. And Sergeant Neal comes walking back over and he looks at us and he's like, Got him. That's awesome. Me and me and Buddy and Wester just kind of look at each other, and we go poke our head around the alleyway. And sure enough, there's this guy laying in the alleyway, and we can see his feet in the RPG laying on the ground, and we're like, All right. So we start pushing up the street finally, because we were taking some heavy fire. If I remember right, that road kind of had a curve to it, and every time we tried to push around the curve, they were just opening up on us with this. I don't know what kind of machine gun it was, but I remember it, they were just wearing us out with it. Yep. And uh I remember hearing the toe shot. Um, was that you or Mosey? There was two that day, so it depends on which one you're talking about. But there was one that took out the RPG gunner that kept firing from down by the mosque. That was my shot, and then the second one was Mosey firing at a crazy angle uh up and collapsed the top of that building on the right-hand side. Okay, see, I didn't even know it was shot two that day. I knew the one Mosey shot. I just assumed the one that I heard was the one whenever he shot. So I remember we finally started moving uh after that happened. And for whatever reason, I ended up I had a headset radio that day. So I was able to hear the gunners talking, I was able to hear some of the vehicle commanders talking, and right before uh Randall had made that turn, whenever Lieutenant Stevens was losing his mind, yelling for him not to make the turn, I had glanced down at my watch. And so we finally start moving up the street, and I start hearing over the PRR, the headset, I start hearing different gunners saying, Hey, I only have this much ammo left, or hey, I'm down to this, or hey, I'm down to that. And I think if I'm not mistaken, we had one gunner that was dry, like somebody was in the turret with their rifle. Uh, not a rifle, but a we had a spare. I I want to say it was a 240, but it might have been a saw. We had a spare and but it wouldn't fit in the pental mount, and so they just threw it up there. Yeah, so I started hearing all the gunners talking about where they're at with ammo, and I looked down at my watch again, and when I looked at it, I was like, that can't be right. I must have hit it on something or something, because according to my watch, we had been there for like five and a half hours. And we continued moving up the street, and I think we ended up having to break contact that day. I don't think I don't think we were really done, if I if I remember right. We did we did not so after the two toe shots, we got everybody together finally, and there was no more rocket fire.
Ammo Runs Low After Hours
We had maybe a couple more pop shots from a couple of AKs, but pretty much the enemy had broke contact, and so did we. And that's when uh Captain Wilder threw smoke, and we were like, All right, we're out, we're running out of some of the big guns ammo again, anyway. And so we'll leave. And yeah, we broke contact. Yeah, yeah, and then when as we were driving back, uh I kind of remember I think we took Nova back. We did, we took Nova in and back on the seventh. Okay, because I remember just hauling ass down Nova, the river on our right side, the houses on our left, and I was just thinking, God, I hope we don't get ambushed again because we're not in a good state right now. Yeah, uh, but that's when I realized that my watch was probably right because I remember the sun was getting lower, and I was like, Okay, yeah, we probably were out there for five and a half hours. Yeah. Uh I remember we rolled back into Hurricane Point and we got back to the Hooshas and we just started clearing brass and just started reloading ammo again instantly because we thought we were gonna go back out. Yep. And I remember you know getting back to Hurricane Point and trying to outfit the Humvees, and uh and like we were still geared up, like nobody was taking gear off. We thought we were going back out, and I don't remember if it was Gunny Marockey or Lieutenant Steven. I remember somebody coming out of COC and saying, hey, stand down, you're not going back out. And I was like, ooh, that's a good thing, because that was a that was a long day. That was uh whenever whenever the gunners started coming over the PRR and saying that they were down to one can of ammo or two cans or out last belt in, I was like, Yeah, this is not good. Yeah. So yeah, I'd uh I definitely had enough that day whenever they came out and said, Yeah, stand down, you're not going anywhere. Um I'm curious, just kind of the same similar question. Any estimate of uh number of enemy, you think, on that day? You know, because where we were, we were kind of trailing, pulling up the rear behind everybody. Um outside of when we first kind of got down the street and when we first made the turn. Um I didn't really see as much as everybody else did.
Quiet Days And Operation County Fair
Um, I mean, we had a few guys that came around from the from the backside of the side. We had the one guy with RPG in the alleyway. Uh a couple times they had vehicles that dropped people off, but I mean it was you know quickly dealt with. Um, so obviously um being in the back where we were, um we didn't I don't feel like we were seeing as much as you know, being on the ground, I'm sure E my up in the gun because as much as shooting as he was doing, obviously, he was seeing a lot more than us being elevated. Yeah. Uh where me and Webster were that day, we were kind of kind of in the back. Um so yeah, that was my my recollection of the seventh. Um I don't really remember anything about the eighth, or I think the eighth was fairly quiet. Maybe. So we went out. Um, we found a couple houses with like makeshift field hospitals. Like we didn't, no, no big shooting. We, if I remember correctly, we didn't even return fire. We had somebody spray an AK over a wall at us, and like like literally like next to nothing. That was Operation County Fair. And so we went out and searched a couple houses and then came back. That was it. And then the ninth was I don't know if we went out or not. I don't feel like we did much if we did. And then the 10th was the first big bug hunt, so it was a couple days later. Yeah, I remember the 10th because I remember the what do we call it? Like Psyops or something, the the army on me with the big speaker and talking shit and all that. Yeah, I remember that. Um I I don't remember I don't really remember a whole lot of shooting on the 10th, to be honest with you. We did not have significant contact. We had a little bit of contact with uh there's a car load of guys that came up with a couple of AKs, and that was it. We had another car that pulled up that they were just driving the wrong way, and uh fortunately Miranda was the one that shot out the tire because otherwise everybody else was gonna kill him. But he shot out the tire and they came to a screeching halt, and then they were it was nothing, just a guy that turned the wrong direction. Was that the day that we had the concertino wire out and the the guy with like ran through it? Was that a day? Nope, same one, yep, that's the one. Yeah, I do remember that. I remember him just bowling through the concertino wire and everybody opened. Yeah. Yeah. Um and and you know, like you said, County Fair. I remember I remember the name County Fair from one of the missions. I remember the bug hunts. Um the bug hunts for us, I mean, we were kind of set in place. So we kind of just stayed in one area for a long time. Yep. Uh I remember seeing the the rifle company guys come through and just those poor guys were exhausted. I mean, they were doing some serious walking, clearing houses, and searching. And I remember come through, we would just try to give them anything that we had and they might need water, uh, Gatorade,
Bug Hunts And Rooftop Ambush
rippets, whatever it might be. Yeah. Because those poor bastards were wearing it. Yep. And I don't remember which bug hunt it was, but I remember uh we were out there for a long time, and it was it was nighttime. We were kind of switching off of uh being on the trucks and going up to rooftops, you know, provide security, that kind of thing. And I remember the sun was coming up one morning, and I was sitting on a street corner on a cinder block. And if I'm being honest, just very uh unaware, just probably you know, tired from being out, uh just probably very complacent. And yeah, I remember I heard I heard a gate open, one of those metal gates down the road from where we were sitting at, and uh I looked to the right after I hear the gate open, and this guy walks out, and he's in like the he's in like a man dress, but he's a white dude with red hair and a red beard. Oh yes, yeah. I was like, well, that's fucking weird because he doesn't look Arabic. So I think I think Harden was the closest one to me, either him or Tweeter, and I went and got him, I was like, hey, you gotta come see this. So we went around the corner and he was, you know, out hosing his driveway or his shit ditch or whatever they do in the mornings, and they're always you know watering their whatever. And uh, so they grabbed the interpreter and they go down and talk to him. And you can tell from the guy's body language, like he does not want to, he does not want to deal with us. And um come to find out he was Christian, I guess. And he was basically telling the interpreter, hey, look, we already get enough shit for being Christian, we don't want to be seen talking to y'all, just kind of you know, just leave us alone. And it was funny because after that, like we would be driving through the marketplace or something in the middle of town, like all of a sudden you'd spot a white face. Yeah. I was like, oh, there's more of them. I was like, this is wild. I mean, they were they were easy to pick out, you know. But uh no, I remember on one of the one of the big bug hunts. Um, it was kind of the end of the day, we were getting ready to wrap it up, and it might have been the same one. We had linked up with, I don't know if it was Echo Company or Golf Company, and their Humvees and their seven tons were in front of us. We were kind of providing security around. We were in like this, we were in a neighborhood, but we weren't just like on a single street. It was kind of like an open like area in between these houses. And uh they had a seven-ton parked right in front of my Humvee. And I was sitting in the driver's seat. Uh Emay was facing like kind of behind us, I want to say. And Monroe was in his high back on his gun to my, I can see him out of my left window. And this is I know we had the up armors at this time because I remember looking at him through my the glass on my driver door. And uh we're sitting there, and I'm watching the line company guys load up in the back of the seven-ton, and one of their radio operators was taking a knee and he was facing me, and he's on a knee, and the guys are climbing up in the back, and all of a sudden, it looked like somebody just ran up and kicked him in the chest. He just flew backwards, and then I heard a shot ring out. Yep, and I can hear shooting behind me, and then I hear shooting in front of me, and all of a sudden I look up back over at Monroe and I watched him take his uh what is it, the T and E on the bottom of the 50? Yeah, I I watched him swipe his T and E off the bar, like unsecure it, and he's three gunning the 50, and he's just lighting these guys up, like these four or five guys that popped up on the top of this house that was kind of catacorned in front of us, and he's lighting them up. And E swings his turret and he starts shooting, so I'm getting brass in my face and in my collar again. Like watching them just annihilate these guys on the rooftop, and I was like, wow, I was like, those guys definitely had a death wish because we had, I don't know how many Marines we had right there in that area, all the line company loading up, all these you know, Humvees with heavy machine guns, and these jackasses decided that now is a good time to try to hit us. Yeah, that wasn't a good decision on their part. But yeah, that was that was one of my memories from uh one of the buck huts. And then that was it. I think we we escorted the line company back to combat outposts and went back to base, and that was the end of it. I I cannot remember the date of that. I do remember that was in July, and the only reason why I remember that is because after that engagement, like three or four people were so dehydrated. I remember Bundy doing IVs on everybody. Oh, okay. And uh, and uh somewhere he went and got ice and he came back with like like two bags of ice in paper bags, of course, of all things. He was putting it in people's hats, and they were just like holding their hat on their head like with ice, like trying to get cooled off. Because even our ACs weren't keeping up or anything, it was just fucking hot that day. We're all just sitting in the smoke pit and they had 550 core like stretched across the top of it, and they had I don't even know how many IV bags hanging. Everybody's just sitting down, laying down, and everybody's gonna IV. Getting a bag of saline, smoking a cigarette. God damn right. No, I remember that. Uh I mean, I don't really remember dates on anything. I mean, it seemed like every day we went out after that there was kind of something, no matter how big of an engagement or small, because it seems like there was always something. Um I think towards the end of the deployment, big boy figured out that it was Tweeter's fucking warhorn that he liked to blow on the hood of the Humvee before we went out. That would cause us to get contact. That's what everybody that's what everybody decided to believe. He had one of those stupid Viking war horns, and he would blow it. He would stand on the hood of the Humvee and blow it before we would go out the gate. And we we would get heavy contact every fucking time he would do that. Yeah, that would never
The Warhorn Myth And Dam Sweep
fail. I do remember I've heard quite a few guys talk about the uh the sweeping of the dam with the engineers, and uh I remember that day very clearly because I remember whenever we got the mission brief, that was probably one of the few missions that we went on, but we did. A couple raids, but we got some pretty detailed briefings, you know. Um, but I know that I remember that mission being briefed pretty well because I remember uh everyone's uh was pretty dissatisfied with the idea. Yeah. Um I know Lieutenant Stevens uh was not too happy about that. He was in my truck and he made it very clear that he was not happy about doing that mission. And uh I mean, even being an 18, 19-year-old PFC, I was like, once we got out there and I understood what was going on, I was like, yeah, this is fucking dumb. Like we're skylined and open on our whole left side, basically. But uh, I remember getting up there, we were the second vehicle again, and uh for whatever reason, I think I don't know if it was Tweet or Lieutenant Stevens tell me, hey, pulled on the side of Randall's truck. So I pulled up and we were kind of riding side by side. And the engineers, the two engineers were out in front of us and uh sweeping, and they stopped, and they were kind of just moving their metal detectors around and walking kind of in circles around this one spot, and then they slung them like they had slings on them, so they slung them. And I remember watching one of the guys take out his E-tool, and as soon as he put the damn thing in the ground, I just remembered seeing them go up in the air like ragdolves. I mean, they were just I didn't know how high they went off the ground, but they were just flipping in the air, uh just you know, lifeless looking. It was crazy. And as soon as it went off, uh Lieutenant Stevens yelled at me, he was like, get up there, go. So we hauled ass uh to block them uh from the the city and everything on the left side because we didn't know if we're gonna start taking small arms and stuff, and you can see them moving on the ground. So we hauled ass and got up there to block them. And shit, by the time we got to them, there was already guys coming on foot. And I remember getting them loaded up, I think, in your MV and one other maybe. It was mine and uh high back with uh Sweden Monroe. But the the worst part of that thing, as far as trying to get the casualties, was that the dam was whatever it was, 28 feet or whatever the fuck it was up a straight dirt berm. There was no way to get the trucks down from where you guys were. There was no way for us to get our trucks up there, so you just had to run them down on foot. And I was sure somebody was gonna fucking die coming down because I mean it was super super steep incline. Yeah. Yeah, I remember watching uh Miranda, I think it was, and a handful of guys. I remember watching them carry them on stretches down there, and I was like, oh shoot, they're gonna go down there. And then I remember they finally got on the road and and got them out of there, and then uh we went back. I think I feel like we were out by the arches, maybe sitting. When we came back out after we dropped off those guys, yeah. So we we we went to combat outpost and they stabilized, got flown out by a helicopter, and we went up to the hill up by the cemetery and were overlooking the arches. Um down by the arches at the at least during the time when the engineers were out was Sledgehammer, and but I think they moved off after that. We were split. Yeah. I I remember after that all after we got them evaced, and uh but yeah, I remember we were sitting kind of in an overwatch position, and uh everybody was pretty quiet. We were tired, we've been we'd been out there for a good while, and uh nobody was really saying much. We were just kind of sitting, and that damn vehicle-borne IED went off. Yep, and I don't even know how far we were from it, but I remember sitting in my driver's seat inside my Humvee with the door closed, and I felt it move me. Yeah, like you can feel the ground shake from it, yeah. And I like I said, I have no clue how far we were from it, but I remember
A VBIED Blast That Shakes Everything
Lieutenant Stevens was just like, hey, we gotta go. And I remember we we everybody mounted up because we had I think we had dismounts kicked out. Um everybody mounted up and we just hauled ass. And I remember when we pulled up on that scene, I mean it was it was devastating uh what that what that blast did. I remember the crater in the ground. Um just marines just laid out everywhere. That was uh that was a terrible scene. It was it was amazing that uh anyone survived that. Yep. Yeah, it the weirdest thing to me is I remember driving up and I remember trying not to drive over someone and like stopping other vehicles when they were coming up because their marines had been thrown 10, 12, 15 feet away from the vehicle. And the whole side of that Humvee, that right side was just Swiss cheese, and the metal plates that were there were just like off, like they had just been ripped off, and it it yeah, that was a hell of a thing. Oh, yeah, it was like somebody stepped on a coke can. I mean, it was it was it was done. Yep. Yeah. I'm kind of looking over my notes that kind of jotted down. So I don't know at what point this was, Nick. I remember we were coming back from combat outpost, I believe, one day, and it I want to say it was it was towards the end of the deployment because I remember everybody was kind of in the the self-preservation mode, or at least I know I was because we've been there a while. We we were hauling ass
Contact On Michigan Heading Home
down Michigan uh back to Hurricane Point, and uh I was the lead vehicle that day. I was I was in front, and we got the nose of our Humvee inside the wall at Hurricane Point. And when the the guys that were doing security at the gate saw us, they lifted up the bar for us to come in. And right as we were about to pull in, you came over the the radio, and you were like, Hey, I don't know if anybody cares, but we just took contact back here. I guess it got so dispersed going down Michigan, we had lost radio contact, I guess. And we were so far ahead of y'all that I guess we didn't even hear it. So I remember looking back at Lieutenant Stevens, and he just put his head down, like, oh man. So our radio, and I'll never forget this. I remember Captain Wilder coming over the radio and saying, Roger, go see if you can get back in contact. And I was like, Fuck. I was like, we're here, we're at the base, like they're probably not there anymore. So we had that stupid traffic circle right outside of our gate. So we're trying to back up, and like everybody's trying to back up around the traffic circle so we can get back out. And it was one of those days where like there was no vehicle traffic out, there was no foot traffic, so it was kind of eerie. Uh and we drove up the wrong side of Michigan, like going like against traffic, although there was no traffic. And I remember we were getting, I guess, back to where y'all had taken contact, and we were back in front, we were back in our original order, and uh you came over the radio and you said we took contact right about, and before you even said here, they unleashed hell on us in the middle of Michigan. Yep. I was like, Oh shit, here we go. And everybody just came flying up, the dismounts started kicking out, running across because they were actually hitting us from the opposite side of the road we were on. The gunners started letting all hell break loose, and boom, the dismounts disappeared. So here we are, sitting in the middle of fucking Michigan wide open. Uh everybody's, you know, to the wind, starting to clear buildings and stuff, and then finally the the fire started dying down, and uh all the all the dismounts started coming back to the Humvees. So we're sitting there. We flipped around, so we're facing back towards Hurricane Point, and I have my door open, and I have my rifle hanging out of the door because that's the side we were taking contact from. So I have my one foot on the door keeping it open, and I have my rifle hanging out, and here come the dismounts Sweet and Tweeter, and uh I remember seeing Miranda and Neil and all these guys, they're coming, and all of a sudden, right before they get to the media on Michigan, they just get engulfed in gunfire. Oh, yeah. And the sand from that's on the road and the smoke from the rounds, I guess. And uh, I don't even know if there was RPG shot, it was so chaotic. They just disappeared in like this cloud of smoke. That was and Lopez and Gonzalez were with us at that point because uh Gonzo, Gonzo was the one that disappeared in the smoke, and I was like, he's gone, he's dead. Yeah, and I was like, Oh shit, they're all dead. There's no way they're coming out of that. And all of a sudden they all come out of the smoke, they all jumped the meeting, and we were when we flipped around, uh the vehicle Sergeant Neil rode in ended up being like in front of me, so he had to come past my Humvee. Well, you know, the gunners had opened up and like suppressed the fire and everything, so there was no more shooting going on. Well, Sergeant Neil comes walking by my Humvee and he looks at me. You know, this dude, I mean, just always calm, cool, and collective. Didn't get excited about anything. I just I remember him looking at me as he walked by my door and he kind of leaned his head in and he said, I think they saw me. And that was one of those moments, man, what's wrong with this dude? Like, but like just to make you know a joke in that situation, I was like, God, this guy is something. So we got loaded back up in the Humbies and went back to Hurricane Point, and that was it. But yeah, that was uh that was to find humor in the middle of that situation. That was uh that was kind of odd. Uh another note that I have scribbled down, I don't know where we were going. Um we were either TQ or outside, I don't know. We were going to one of those bases one day. And uh we're driving in the middle of the desert, like open country, there's nothing. And now and you came across the PRR, I want to say, and you were like, everybody stop. And we were, I mean, we weren't like hauling ass, but we were we were driving fairly quick, you know, to get to where we were going. So everybody comes to a stop, and you came across the radio like very calmly, and you said, Drivers, we're in a minefield. I want everybody to start backing up and stay in each other's tracks. And to anyone who's ever driven a Humvee, there's not a fucking rearview mirror and a back glass. Nope. Whenever you have a up armored door with a cage over the window. So I'm like, oh shit. So we start backing up, and you're like, okay, I think we're out of it. And we took another ride like back to the main road. But I was like, come on, we've made it like this was pretty late in the deployment. I was like, are we really gonna die in a freaking mine shield that has been here for god knows how long? Well, those were those were US newer mines, those are cluster mines, so yeah. I uh I'll never till the day I fucking die ever forget that fucking yellow cluster mines still with the parachutes on them. They hadn't been there that long, they're part of the invasion. Yeah, that was uh that was pretty freaky because I was like, all right, I have uh a little bit of faith in my ability, but uh this is some added pressure that I don't necessarily want. So uh I've heard a lot of guys talk about uh I've heard you guys ask a lot about uh you know Hooch life and just different things that went on on Hurricane Point. The uh the indirect fire thing, you know, that was always when we first got there and we had those canvas tarps over the metal frames.
Indirect Fire And Chow Hall Trouble
I was like, Yeah, well, this isn't done. I mean, rounds are coming through this, anything's coming through this, and then we got those metal panels, and it was like a I mean, that was nothing more than a false sense of security because those weren't doing anything either. But I remember I slept on a top rack every night, so I remember every night when I'd lay down on my rack, I'd be like, probably not gonna feel anything anyway while I'm sleeping this if it hits directly on me. So but uh I remember like you know, sometimes we'd be sitting outside or playing horseshoes or doing whatever, and all of a sudden you hear the thump thump thump, the the motors going off. And you know, when we first got there, everybody would had the instinct of of running, and it's not really like we had uh anything to run to. Nope. There were no bunkers, there was no cover, there wasn't fucking shit. Yeah, and I think later in the deployment we'd hear them, and everybody would just kind of sit and just wait and be like, good. But no, it was it was odd. Uh the things that that went on on Hurricane Point. Uh yeah, fucking Huraski doing night ops all the time, going acquire shit from different got roped into a couple of those missions, going steal shit from the chow hall. Oh, I did get a pretty good ask chewing from uh at the time, first Sergeant Ellis, uh, about the chow hall. I don't know if you remember this. There was a small portion of the time whenever they were like, no food can be taken out of the chow hall. Oh yeah. Um well I don't know who it was, but I got sent over to the chow hall one day to go get two plates of food for the uh whoever was on the radio watching the CLC. So I walk over there, I get two plates of food, and I walk out of the canvas chow hall tent, and I'm walking back, and here comes first sernellis coming out of the gym, and he's like, Hey, double dog. He's like, Didn't didn't you hear that you're not supposed to take food out of the chow hall? So I'm like, here we go. Like, yes, first sergeant, I'm bringing this to the radio watch. Well, you go put that food back in the chow hall, and you and and you go tell whoever's on radio watch then you get relieved, and then you come in the chow hall. And he's like, So I guess you're just telling the battalion commander to fuck you. And he continues just to chew my ass, and I'm just taking it. I'm like, all right, so I'll walk back in the child hall, face down, and I get back, and uh big boy was sitting outside in the COC, and he's like, Where's the food for radio watch? And right as he asked me this, first sergeant Mac walks out, and uh I'm like, Well, first sermon L stopped me and said that couldn't take it out of the child. And you know, first sergeant Mac, he kind of stands there, kind of looking at me. He's like, Is that right? He talks, he comes back out with his cover and his shotgun, and there he comes back a few minutes later and he's like, Hey Kyle, go get the radio, watch some food. I was like, Yeah, first sergeant. I didn't know what I was about to get into. I was like, I'm probably about to be my ass shoot again, but nobody fucks with me that time around, though. Nice. Unfortunately, that wasn't my only ashton I got from uh First Sergeant Ellis. My second ashtune from him came when he was Sergeant Major Ellis. Um so I ended up on the battalion color guard after we came back from our second deployment to Okinawa. And uh me and Sergeant Alquist and our two rifle bears, uh we went out to I think it was Dana Point. We did a some kind of we did some kind of ceremony as the battalion color guard. And uh Sergeant Major Ellis was out there with us, and uh we had it, we were in a duty van. So me and Alquist made the uh the two rifle bears do paper rock scissors to see who was gonna drive the Govey back to base because we were gonna drink at the bar at the event we were at after. Because you know, we were in dress blues and everybody wanted to buy us drinks. So we get again and we get back to base, and it was a Sunday afternoon. So we get back to base, and I was passed out in the back of the duty van when we got back on base. So Alquist wakes me up and he's like, hey, he's like, we gotta go uncase the colors and put them back outside the sergeant major's office. So okay, so we walk into battalion, we go upstairs, take the colors out of the case, and we stick them outside his door in the holders, and then uh Monday morning comes around and Alquist comes to find me. He was in Fox Company. I don't know if you guys knew Alquist. He uh he ended up getting killed in our last diploma tire rack. He was a good dude. He uh he comes find me over at the weapons company barracks, and he's like, hey, Sergeant Major wants to see us. And I was like, Oh shit. I was like, I know we got pretty drunk, but I don't think we did anything stupid, you know, out in town or at this event or anything. So we go to the battalion building, we go upstairs, Sergeant Major's doors open, so we walk in and he calls us to attention, and I'm like, oh shit. He's like, gentlemen, so he says, Gentlemen, did I not teach y'all the proper protocol to store the colors? And I'm like, kind of thinking what he's talking about, and he's like, he walks us outside of his office, and there they are in the holders outside of his office, and he's like, Is this how you left them yesterday? We're like, Yes, Sergeant Major. No, the fuck it's not. We had put them on the opposite side that they were supposed to be. So he gave us a pretty good ass chewing, and then he let us go. He uh he kind of later made a joke about it, but yeah, he chewed our ass pretty good about that one. Uh hooch life, yeah. Hooch life was always interesting, especially on uh night QRF, whenever you hit the be awake and dressed. Um I remember uh I don't know where we got this thing from. We got it in a care package, I guess. Somebody got it in a care package. Somebody had this damn tennis racket bug zapper. Oh, yeah. And I guess it got uh overused, and somehow
Hooch Antics And Near Beer Raids
the the racket part of it broke off, so it was just like the handle and the two wires sticking out of it. Somehow. I can't remember how much money was raised, but uh there was a good amount of money that was raised one night for somebody. I'm not gonna mention any names, I'm not gonna embarrass him like that, but he said, uh, yeah, if y'all raise this much money, he's like, I'll let y'all shock me in the tank with it. Yep. And uh he made some money off of that stupid deal. Well, my favorite part of that is the way we raised the money is everybody collected as many apes pugs as they had, and we had a whole helmet full of aphies pugs. And it was it was quite a lot of money here. I don't know, 20-30 bucks worth of aphies pugs. It was pretty good. Yeah, yeah. I remember uh big boy coming over to the hoops, and he'd he always come in. Whenever he whenever he came in looking for Ratsky, you always knew he was up to something. He wanted something acquired. I remember this for a period of time we started getting the uh the cases of near beer, the the non-alcohol beer. Yeah, hell yeah. I remember uh old big boy would come to the hooch and be like, where's Hratsky? And again, it was either me or Nehemiah or Homer, somebody that got roped into it with Horatsky, but we'd end up going raid the the chow back of the chow hall for near beer at night for Big Boy. Yeah, him and Gunny Crutcher would sit there and he would drink that near beer while they played dominoes and listen to whatever the hell they were listening to on those little tiny ass speakers. Oh, yeah, I do remember their their in-depth domino games. Yeah, oh hell yeah, you didn't interrupt it. You interrupt it, you get the shit kicked out of you. Yeah, somebody better be dying. Yeah, that was two men you didn't want to fuck with for sure. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's I mean, that's that's the gist of what I remember, really. Cool, great. That's a lot of stuff. You have a great memory. I was gonna say, that was a couple hours, and yeah, that was pretty. Good memories, man. Well, thanks to a lot of the guys that you know were on before me. I would I would hear things and I'd be like, Oh yeah, I remember that. And then I'd remember other things about you know certain things around it, and like, oh yeah, so kind of just started jotting down notes uh just randomly, not in any uh specific order or anything, but yeah. I do remember uh I don't know at what point Bass and Anderson got to us. I don't remember the date. Uh I think Anderson Anderson told us the date, and now I can't remember it, but it was like June, July, something like that. Yeah, that's what I'm remembering. I don't remember it being at night because I remember we're sleeping, and we heard the helicopter come and land on base, and all of a sudden the door flies open, and this big boy with them two. And I remember Bass kept acknowledging Big Boy, and I remember Sergeant Neil waking up and saying, Hey, shut the fuck up, because Bass had that deep booming voice, you know. Shut the fuck up because we were all sleeping. Uh Neil was funny. I remember it would get late at night at the hooch, and and everybody would still be up, lights on, doing different things. And when Neil was ready to go to bed, he would just come come right, walk right by your rack and turn your light off behind. You you weren't gonna tell him shit about it. He said it was time to turn the fucking light. Between that and I remember Cohen had a radio, and he'd go steal Cohen's radio. He'd be like, you're not listening to music anymore. That was it. Yeah, he puts some fucking headphones on. Yep. Anything else you remember that you'd like to go over? Because I I mean I can always ask you a few questions or anything you don't remember, but uh no, I remember going over to JC uh Jump City at the end. Um I remember going over there and it was we thought it was fucking great because we got to stay in those little shacks that the CBs had just built. They were like brand fucking new. Yeah, yep. They had decent racks in them with decent mattresses in them. And uh I remember going over there and just
Junction City Then The Flight Home
like not really being on schedule, like just kind of waking up, going to child if you want sleeping all day if you wanted to. I know that wasn't the case for you guys after I've heard your stories. Um I remember you guys staying back with two five to do the ride-alongs, but to be honest with you, yeah, I did not realize all the shit that you guys went through with them uh last couple days before we're going out. Yeah, some heavy fighting. But uh, yeah, I remember getting on the seven-ton uh where we go back to Al-Assad. Is that where we flew out of? Alisad's where we flew out of, yeah. Yeah, I remember looking at the seven tons out of Junction City and going through remotting one last time, and I was thinking, uh, this would be some shit if this is how it's gonna end, you know, on the way out on the back of the seven tons. Um and we made it with uh nothing happening. I remember getting outside. I I don't really remember how long we were outside. I don't remember, I remember taking off from there because I do remember. I think y'all talked about it before. I remember when we took off, it wasn't a normal takeoff. Uh yeah, it was pretty crazy. I feel like we we gained elevation rather quick. Yeah, yes, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was definitely a combat takeoff. They went straight the fuck up and turned. Yeah. And then uh I don't know how long we were back in Kuwait for at Victory. I remember getting back to Victory, and uh I don't really remember how long we were there for. I do remember getting on the commercial airliner flying out uh because I remember being lucky enough to not have to be on the damn working party loading all the sea bags and everything in the bottom of the plane, and then they all got to sit first class on the way back. We had freaking flak jackets and rifles and kevlars just everywhere in the aisle. I remember like the the flight attendants, they were so nice too. And they like they would like just gently wake you up and be like, Can you move that stuff so I can push the cart through? But I I remember, you know, after we got on the plane, I do remember the pilot saying, Let's go home, and I was like, Yeah, fucking let's go. Yeah, that was uh probably the best commercial flight I've ever been on, even though it's kind of cramped and we had shit everywhere. Yeah. I think I slept the entire time. I don't remember any of the flight back at all. I think I ate every meal they gave us, and oh no. I remember the pilot telling us that we were about to go over Vegas and he dropped down so we could see the lights. And uh I remember when we got to March Air Force Base and we got off the plane, there was people like outside the gate like cheering for us and stuff. I do remember that. I remember that being super suspicious because nobody was supposed to know that we were on our way home, right? You're not supposed to know troop movements, and then somehow people's families were at March Air Force Base when we landed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and look being uh dumb, young PFC at the time, I never thought anything of it, but I do remember it. Uh I remember getting back to the penalty of the grinder, and I remember everybody hovering around the kegs that were out there. And uh, yeah. That was it. Did you have everybody anybody that uh met you when we got back? Yeah, my uh they weren't there right when we got back. We were back on the base for a couple hours. Um, because I remember we had stayed at the grinder for a while, then we went back up to the barracks, uh, me and Moses. Mosey was my roommate, and uh we were actually we had changed, we were actually in civilian clothes, I think. And uh we were walking down the PX, and my dad and my stepmom showed up. So yeah, they came out uh and spent the weekend with us out there. And then uh we didn't do I feel like we went on leave fairly quick after we got back. It was pretty quick from my memory, too. It was like maybe four or five days, and then we went right on leave. Yeah, yeah. And then now I I could be wrong, but I think I remember you had a either a serious girlfriend or a fiance or something at the time. Did you keep up with anybody while you're over there, write letters to anybody, get care packages, any of that kind of stuff? Yeah, man, I was fortunate. I got a lot of care packages from a lot of different people. Uh, I was one of the ones that spent, I've heard y'all talk about it uh a few times. I'm one of the ones that spent a ridiculous amount of money on phone carts from the ATT phone center. Dude, yeah, that was me. Yeah. Uh I think more towards the end of the deployment, I kind of stopped calling as much. Uh it was
Calls Home And Later Deployment Stress
like more when we first got there. Um, more towards the end, I kind of stopped calling as much. Uh because I think it kind of like, I don't know, it it got to the point where it's like, yeah, I don't really want to talk to anybody from home anymore. Uh, because we're not really known, like, am I getting out of here or not? You know. Yeah. I I think that was a more of a common sentiment than people realize. I do remember having those conversations with a lot of people, like, hey man, at least go call everybody and tell them you're alive because we haven't been able to call for a month or whatever when we had those real busy months. Yeah, and look, we were, I mean, our living conditions weren't the greatest, but they weren't terrible either. Uh, and we were fortunate that we had that phone center, you know, because like look, the last the on the third deployment, whenever we ended up back in Barwana, um, we didn't have a base. I mean, we got pulled in off ship and we were kind of living out of our Humbies. And when we came off ship, we were only supposed to be over there for a month, and we ended up there like five and a half months, I want to say. So we kind of lived our humbees. 224 style. Yeah, they eventually built like kind of a makeshift base out in the desert because the town we were in was fairly small, it was and it wasn't really enough room for all the units to be in there at the same time. So they kind of made a makeshift base and we kind of rotated out of there like every, I think, 15 days or something like that. So, like every 15 days, we would get to use a sat phone and get to take a shower. Um I didn't, and you know, I didn't really use the SAT phone that go around a whole bunch either, because uh, for one, I was a lot busier on that deployment. Uh, I was a sergeant on that deployment and had this section and just had a lot going on, so I didn't really have a lot of free time. Um the one time uh one of the few times I did use the damn SAT phone, I was trying to call my brother because my oldest niece was being, I knew she was gonna be born. And uh lucky enough, I ended up catching him on the day she was born. And while I'm on the roof of the house that we were kind of one of the houses we kind of made a compound in, I'm on the roof on the SAT phone and we get freaking mortar attacked. Um so I lost signal, so I'm like hurrying up. I'm like trying to dial and back, and then like I finally get it back on the phone. I'm like, hey, I'm good, but I gotta go. So yeah, that that deployment I didn't uh I didn't call home near as much because for one didn't have the access and was just kind of busy. So and you stayed in for four years, right? You didn't do in you weren't in there an extended amount of time. No, we got back from that deployment. I had like two weeks to check out whenever we got back. Um, and I had a bunch of leave saved up, so I was due to EAS in July. I actually came home in June and just stayed home. Um no, I planned on staying in, but the three deployments in four years was a lot. And that last deployment was um extremely stressful for me. Although we didn't we didn't get in the near the we didn't get in any contact that deployment. Um never pulled the trigger that deployment. What we did experience was a whole different type of IED that was um, I'm gonna say uh scarier than the ones we encountered, because the ones we encountered in Ramadi were definitely terrifying. But uh these bastards had gotten pretty slick on when we got over that time, and everything was basically on a pressure plate, but it wasn't off to the side of the road. They were burying them under because they had figured out that these up armored humpbees can take a little bit of a blast. Yep. My biggest fear, both deployments really. I mean, a gunfight look, you can do something about, right? I mean, but an IED you can't do anything against. So that was my biggest fear that whole deployment. Um not only that, just it was uh I really got thrown into the shit on that deployment. Um my platoon sergeant got sent back a little bit early. Uh, I think Haratsky and I were the only two sergeants in map three at the time because we got moved over to map three uh prior to open. Um so I get called into the COC one night and by my platoon commander, and I walk in and first sergeant and the uh company commander in there and basically tell me, hey, you're uh you're taking over map three as a platoon sergeant. I'm like, y'all fucking crazy. I literally got promoted to sergeant like at the beginning of that deployment. I've been a sergeant for five minutes. Um what the fuck are y'all doing? Like, honestly, my first thought whenever they told me that was why you have Sergeant McCabe and Sergeant Harden over there in map two. Like, why not pull them over here to be a platoon sergeant? They're far more senior than me, you know. Um, but no, they were adamant that I was taking over that's that billet. And uh so that was probably the last two and a half, three months we were there, maybe. And uh I just had a few instances in the rest of that deployment that I was like, you know what? The Marine Corps is not going anywhere. Uh I'm getting out. If it doesn't work out, I'll go back. But uh I had enough of this shit. Yeah, so yeah, just uh just did four and got out. Well, I have a closing question I ask everybody, but I'm gonna ask you a different question before that just to see how you feel. Do you want to talk about what happened on the bridge? You know, you don't have to. I'm not trying to give you an out, but I I think somebody should eventually, so it's it's up to you if you want to. Look, I'm not rolling anybody under the bus. I'm not saying any names. Um that night unfolded from how that night started to how that night
The Bridge Post And Shots Fired
ended is not what I thought was gonna happen. Um what was gonna happen up there was unbeknownst to me until several hours of being up there. Um I was uh young, I was the junior guy, and I was like, you know what? Who am I to say anything? Uh I'm just gonna roll with it. And everything was pretty calm up there, believe it or not. Uh and didn't didn't really realize the magnitude of the situation until uh after shots were fired. And then I realized the condition they were in. And I was like, yeah, this is this is not good. Because before that, it was, I mean, it was like I said, it was fairly calm. Everybody was calm, cool, and collective. And then once uh, like I said, once shots were fired and I realized the state they were in, I was like, eh, yeah, this is about to go south. Um those guys both did come to me after the fact uh days later and uh apologize to me uh for you know putting me in that situation because I think after they thought about it, they kind of realized, you know, the magnitude of it. And uh it was definitely a lesson learned for me. Um and it was a lesson that later on in my Marine Corps career, as I picked up rank and uh started being in different situations, that uh I kind of learned, hey, you know what? Uh even if this guy is senior to me, if it's if if something needs to be said, something needs to be said. And I was in a couple situations later on where I did kind of voice my opinion or you know, voice different things that I took some ass tuans for, but uh I didn't let myself get into one of those situations again. Um I would come back. Not to pick at not to pick at you, but you've you've added zero detail, so I'm gonna add just a couple of details. You were up on the bridge post and there was alcohol being passed around. That's what I know. Now I don't know what happened outside of that, but there was there was three of you. Is that correct? Yes, yeah, and then I don't know why there was any shots fired. Again, this is I I found out all this shit way after the fact because I was not on radio or sergeant of the guard that night. So we were we were rotating out on the on the thermal and you know at on the bridge and looking out over Nova. We were on North Bridge, and um I don't remember which one of the guys saw it first, but they're like, hey, somebody's digging on the side of the road. Uh that so that makes more sense. That's what I remember from the story. Yeah, so uh other guy goes out and looks and he's like, Yeah, that's what it looks like. So I'm like, well, let me look. So I look and I'm like, yeah, they're definitely digging. And before anything else can be said or done, there's rounds going downrange. And I was just like, holy shit. Like, and then we uh radioed into the COC, and then that's whenever I guess it was Miranda that came up, I think, if I remember right. That that's the story that I heard, yeah. No, it was late. I mean, it was almost midnight because I want to say we were on like the 8 to 12 posts or something like that. I know it was late at night, yeah. So, yeah, I mean, after uh after the the shots were fired, that's whenever I I really realized what kind of uh state they were in, you know. Where did where did and then the you know again, you can tell me to fuck off. It doesn't matter. I don't mind. Uh, where did the liquor come from? Did you guys buy it from local? I have no idea. That's funny. I I don't I actually have no idea either. For 20 years later, I still don't know. Yeah, I have no idea either. I never asked that question. Um like I said, I'm not rolling anybody under the bus. I was not the one that had it, I'll tell you that. But I yeah, I don't know if it was out in town, I don't know if it was in a care, I have no idea. And so the fallout that ensued was that people figured out that people were intoxicated and shots were fired. Did you end up getting NJP'd or were you court-martialed? Because I know the other two were court-martialed, and because I testified at their court-martial. So I got a very cool NJP from Captain Weiler at the time, and that man can chew ass even better than first sergeant or Sergeant Major Ellis. That's a great compliment, I guess. Do you have I'm curious? Do you remember what he said? I don't, but I remember just standing there at a tension in front of him, and he was letting me have it. And uh, you know, kind of funny story though. I actually saw him uh I guess it was after we came back from Barwana on our third deployment. He was on the parade deck when we got back, and uh he I seen him, he was talking to some guys, and he he started walking away and he's kind of walking my direction. So I walked over to him, and as I walked up to him, he looked at me and he said, Sergeant Kale, and I was like, Yes, sir. I was like, I learned my lesson, and he said, Well, good, I'm glad to see you're doing well, and he walked away. Um yeah, I was a PFC longer than anything else because of that NJP. So uh that's crazy, yeah. Did and now did they require you to give any testimony at the court martial? You know, to be honest with you, I don't remember. I remember going over to the palace. Uh I remember being in the room for it, but I honestly don't remember having to testify or anything, to be honest with you. I don't think so. Yeah, it's there's a whole bunch of things that I could say surrounding that, but it was one of the things that I found to be one of the biggest piles of bullshit. And I and I don't blame anybody. Uh again, I think this is one of those early war decisions. I think there's a million different ways that could have been handled, but to court-martial those those people and then remove them from the platoon. Yeah, I you know, thinking about it years later, and obviously being much older now, um I think it definitely could have been handled differently. Like I like I was gonna say earlier, I'd go back to combat with either one of those guys any day of the week because those guys were phenomenal at their job. That's what I I mean. Shit, I said that at their court martial. Yeah, I mean, they were they were top-notch guys, both of them. Uh yes, yes, a thousand percent. You know, the thing that I always kind of chuckle about is there was a couple situations throughout the rest of that deployment where uh I would go out like behind the hooch or something. I don't remember I don't even know what that was. It was like a little seating area they had made behind, I think it was like kind of in between our hooch and the CLC, but like it was uh like a picnic table they had built under a cover. And like I remember going out there at night sometimes or whatever to smoke or just you know, hang out or whatever, and uh witnessing other people uh consuming adult beverages, dude. Yeah, you I that's I mean again, 22 years later we could tell all the secrets, right? You weren't the only one, you weren't even the you weren't even the first one. Was it was it bad timing? Should it have been done in that scenario? Absolutely not. I mean, but it was just I'll always kind of chuckle about that, you know. Yeah, and it was guys with uh a lot more on their collar than what those guys had at the time, so uh kind of funny. Uh-huh. Yep, absolutely, absolutely. Well, I don't know that there's too much more to say about that unless you got some other parting thoughts, but uh I've asked everybody this, and I'm I'm definitely curious because you've got such a good memory. 22 years later, what does all this shit mean to you, and what uh what do you tell people if they ask you about it? You know the the reasons that we were there are beyond all of us. Uh who knows what the reasons are. Um I tell people all the time, you know, I was whether you say it's fortunate or unfortunate enough to go to a lot of different countries. Um I've seen the the way people live and
How War Changes Your Perspective
the quality of life that people have in a lot of different places. And a lot of people that have never been in the military or don't know anybody that was in the military that just live in in our country, they don't realize how good we have it. Um there was days where I hated the Iraqis over there, and there was days where I felt bad for some of them. And I remember there being a point in time where we would be out on patrol, and all of a sudden you'd see people on rooftops, and shit, we would stop and clear the house because people on rooftops were a bad thing for us, you know. And we'd get up there or and or you know, the dismounts would get up there and come back down. They're like, Oh, they're just setting up a satellite to watch TV because they never had that ability before, you know. Yeah. And then I hear the stories that like Latham told about, you know, them running a damn marathon down Michigan and PT and out there and how robust the city is now, you know. I mean, those people have have a quality of life, obviously, now that they'd never had and probably never imagined they would whenever Sudan was in power, you know. So were we there for the right reasons? I don't know. Did we help the people who are actually uh good people and proud of their country to live a better and more prosperous and maybe a little bit safer life? Yeah, I think so. Nice. And how about for you personally? Anything uh anything strike you? Anything that uh I don't know, anything you think about on a day-to-day basis? I mean whether it's a male or somebody that says something or something you see, I mean, uh I don't I don't think there's a day that's gone by in the last 20 plus years that I haven't thought about it, you know. Yeah. Well, it's really good to see you, man. Uh as I told you before we even push record, you look fucking great, man. Looks like yeah, other than the salt and pepper in your beard, you haven't aged a minute, and that's uh that's probably a good thing. Yeah, it's good to catch up, and I know people will be glad to hear from you. Yeah, I appreciate it. And I appreciate you guys doing this. You know, I know uh it's taking a lot of time, like we were talking earlier, kind of before we went on. You know, everybody's busy, everybody has life and kids, and uh I appreciate the the time and effort that you guys are putting in putting this together. It's become a part-time job. It's become a part-time job, but it in a good way. In a good way. That's all right. If you like what you heard, make sure you subscribe for future episodes on your favorite podcast service.