Intensity and Good Faith - Justin Weaver (part 2 of 2)

Part 2 with Justin Weaver wraps up with the strange gap between what we lived and what the civilian world can understand, and how that gap can push people into silence, booze, and untreated PTSD. We trade memories from Ramadi to coming home, and talk about when things get dark. 

• feeling isolated after service and doubting your own memories 
• PTSD denial, drinking as “normal,” and finally choosing to get help 
• hooch life in Ramadi, sandstorms, smoking pits, and bootleg DVDs 
• the flight over, emergency landings
• night raids, language barriers
• corruption fears, police station stories, and the interrogation tent rumors 
• Junction City as a mythical level comfort
• coming home to loneliness, Walmart gift cards, and chaos
• getting out early, what it means to lose your tribe 
• losing friends after the war 

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Part two with Justin Weaver of Rainmaker Platoon.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

Well, and that's uh I you know, I especially around here, like there there are the there are no there aren't many other veterans or anything around here and stuff. So like I don't know how like anybody to talk to about it and stuff, and anybody that I would talk to about it would be like, man, you're lying about like that. That didn't happen. There's no way that's real. And so like so so I I didn't talk to anybody about it or anything like that. So I was just starting to think, man, maybe I am making it like maybe I am imagining,

When Nobody Believes Your Memories

SPEAKER_01 0:41

man. I mean did they have it in a movie? Like, did they like no Nylon?

SPEAKER_02 0:46

I the only person that I've ever really talked to about it is really Nylon, uh, up until this doing this. No, and I think a lot of the guys are the same way. Because it just like you said, I mean, like if somebody was it's hard to talk to somebody that was like you can't talk a to a civilian about it, that's for goddamn.

SPEAKER_00 1:06

Right, right.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

And then even somebody that's a like was in the military, even then, is kind of shaky. And then anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Well, exactly. That's that's what I said. Because uh just because like most of the people that were even in the military didn't see what we saw.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

Like not in 04, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

So and that's I said so. I I mean it was I I I you know, I went down to the uh I got lost in the woods there for a while because I didn't I just I didn't have it. I I didn't know or I didn't have money getting your feet underneath you after afterwards was a little bit more of a Oh yeah, yeah, no, I I I said it was um yeah, yeah, I I I didn't didn't know like how how to get go about getting my PTSD taken care of or anything like that. Like in my mind, I didn't have PTSD or anything like that. I was just I was drinking semi-professionally and and all that stuff, and that was normal for me. I didn't realize anything. And and it took me a while to to realize that maybe maybe I needed uh to get some help there and and get my life under control because I I I in my in my head, like I mean, I I didn't I was wasn't gonna get PTSD or anything like that. Yeah now it a lot a lot changed once I I saw help.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Well I'm glad that you got help, man.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Um I I think I think a lot of it, you know, like the military breeze that that the whole mindset of reaching out for it is a sign of weakness, and you know, like you're you shouldn't need help, but you were tough and all that. Like the I said it shouldn't it shouldn't be uh that shouldn't be an issue. Uh to like if we're supposed to be able to count on each other for our lives, we should be able to listen to each other when we have a problem.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Very much so. And I think uh you kind of hit on a perfect point that in the Marine Corps drinking is just part of the culture, right? Like at least it was when we we were in. I I know nowadays less less guys drink, but uh boy, that was that was just it. Like you what'd you do on the weekends? What'd you do when you got off work? First thing was you know, you crack a beer.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

Drinking your alcohol poisoning, like every weekend. It's just and that's what I said. It's it's it's encouraged and stuff. Like if you said you weren't didn't drink, like people were looking at you like, what there's something wrong with you, or you you have a medical condition or something?

SPEAKER_00 3:34

Right.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

It was and and it's and like I said, and and if you if you try to seek help or like you try to turn to somebody like, hey man, I need somebody to talk to, like you you weren't gonna do that because you were gonna get you pussy and fucking oh you're you're fucking pussy, and you were gonna get ripped into and shit. And don't get me wrong, I I fully believed that like hazing and shit, it it should be in the military. It that's something that should happen. Don't you know not to like a certain extent, but if you if you can't take somebody picking on you and shit, like war is not gonna it was gonna eat you a lot. So so I I can understand to an extent that I don't know where I was going with that.

SPEAKER_03 4:18

Well, I'll tell you what, I'll I'll make it an easy transition. Uh back to Ramadi a little bit. You remember kind of hooch life? Remember uh any of the fun moments?

SPEAKER_01 4:27

Um yeah, just so I remember um like uh when we not too long after we got there, we got a sandstorm and like the roofs blew up blew off of uh of the the Yeah, your guys is dead.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Yeah, you guys lost the corner.

SPEAKER_01 4:40

I I remember first when we got to remote uh when we got on the hurricane point, I'm like, shit, we're gonna live in the palace.

Back To Ramadi And Hooch Life

SPEAKER_01 4:47

Little did I know.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

Yeah, uh yeah. Um, but yeah, um once we got those metal roofs on, it wasn't so bad. But uh I I remember having that that sandstorm and coming back from because I think we were supposed to go on like a patrol or something like that, and we didn't make it probably a hundred feet out the gate where Lieutenant Dahl was like, yeah, we can't we're going back, like go back. And by the time we got back into the gate, our roof had uh had blown halfway to Junction City. And uh I'm gonna say I think it was so Fuentes' stuff was like everywhere, it it blew everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

I know you guys were you guys were taking sand out of uh out of your shit for a long time.

SPEAKER_01 5:32

Yeah. Oh it was yeah, it was it was terrible. And I said like it seemed like all this the the roof blew off and all the sand that was outside just suddenly blew into our hooch.

SPEAKER_02 5:43

So how did you how did you pass your time in the hooch? Did you uh watch movies, play cards? Were you a smoker at the time?

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, um so I I I picked up smoking over there, yeah. Yeah, um, because because I had nothing else to do. Might as well smoke a cigarette. Um and everybody I talked to hung out in the hung out in the smoke pit, so I just started smoking. I I I have a picture where like our entire platoon is sitting in front of the on the palace there, and everybody's

Smoking Pits And Bootleg Movies

SPEAKER_01 6:11

smoking a cigarette. Um but I know like like I said, um I had a little DVD player, and we had we would buy movies off the the Haji shop down there. And for some reason, like he would bring in some bootleg movies and shit, but like the only series he had were the Shield and Gilmore girls. Gilm Gilmore Girls. So that was your choice. You had every season of The Shield or Gilmore girls, and I said that that was so bad. Well, I'll tell I'll tell people stories. I'll be like, Yeah, you know, a whole platoon of Marines all gathered around a tiny DVD player in the front watching Gilmore girls, like the whole season of Gilmore Girls. Yeah, it's not you know, didn't have nothing else to do. We watched the Shield how many times, and um I I have I still have all my DVDs from the Haji Shop, all the bootleg movies and shit. Nice. Uh yeah, somebody with a video camera, there's somebody walking through the movie halfway through and shit. Right. Uh and then I want to say somehow I got a laptop like halfway through the deployment. I cannot remember how I got it.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

Well, I think I've got pretty nice PX of a couple of the bases that we went to.

SPEAKER_01 7:29

I want to say because I was gonna say I think we went to a base somewhere and I got it at a PX. I yeah. TQ had the the Haji plug.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

Yeah. TQ had like a full electronic shop. They they sold PlayStations, Xbox, TVs.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

That's probably where I got it then. I was I was sick because I remember I was I yeah, because I was gonna I was thinking about getting the PlayStation 4 or the PlayStation, and I was like, well, I could do so much more with a computer than a PlayStation. So I still don't regret it. Uh yeah, yeah, so I I didn't even remember that. But um and I wish I would have kept that laptop because then when I when I came back, I sold it to one of the boots for like 30 bucks. But um, yeah, it had the Hodgee plug, but it had all my pictures on it. I didn't back then I wasn't thinking nothing of this. And so my laptop with all the pictures on it.

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

I I think I sold I thought I think I sold it to um Dodson.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

Nice huh.

SPEAKER_03 8:33

Yeah. You should ask him if he still has it somewhere in a foot locker.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Um I have like um I I I did have too a um a disposable camera from from back then that I found in a foot locker, but I don't think the film would still be good for that.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

You never know, man.

SPEAKER_03 8:55

You can try it. I mean, there's a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 8:57

I was I um I didn't know didn't know what it was until um my my mother of all like um pulled it out of uh a box I had up in the attic at her place. I guess when I came back from California, I threw a bunch of stuff up in their attic and it was in there. Um oh one thing I remember on the on the flight over from from March Air Force Base, uh the plane kept breaking down. Yeah. The plane we were on, it was like uh it kept breaking down, and we had to stop make all these emergency landings, and um we had to land in what Romstein or something like that, Germany. Um and I remember once we got over the Atlantic Ocean, Captain Weiler pulled out a bunch of liquor, and we were all passing

The Broken Plane And Liquor Over The Atlantic

SPEAKER_01 9:42

a bottle of liquor uh the whole way around, like the thing taking shots out of it.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Um yeah, that that really happened, right? Like that wasn't imagined. No, that wasn't imagined. I thought so. I thought so.

SPEAKER_03 9:53

Yeah, to my memory, there was at least one bottle of Jack Daniels. I don't remember what the other bottle was, but there is at least one bottle.

SPEAKER_01 9:59

Yeah. Okay, I would say I I thought so, I thought so. Like everybody said, No, they wouldn't have done that. They I'm like, I'm pretty sure. Like um, and there was a bathroom on that plane, right? Like you had to like walk down one bathroom, yes. Yeah, you had to like walk walk down, like um, where am I what was it that you had to walk down some like skinny railing or something to get to it? Why am I imagining that?

SPEAKER_03 10:22

It was the top of the middle benches, so they were it was okay, okay. And everybody's legs were interlaced in the middle. And so if you wanted to get to the bathroom, you had to climb up on the middle bench and go across the top rail.

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Okay, yeah, because I because I didn't even have my head, I kept remembering that you had to like walk this really skinny rail to get to the bathroom. I was like, why would you have to do that in the plane? But that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 10:48

Yeah, well, there was no other way. You couldn't get in between everybody's legs because literally your knee was in somebody else's crotch.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

There was no and we flew the whole way over there on those. What were they 131s or 140 ones or whatever?

SPEAKER_03 11:00

Yeah, C141 Starlifter was the name of the uh I'd say we flew the whole way over there, right?

SPEAKER_01 11:05

But on the way back, we flew commercial, right?

SPEAKER_03 11:08

We did on a United Air.

SPEAKER_01 11:10

I thought so. I thought so.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Yeah, see, see now I'm just now like I did the I like I said, I I keep thinking in my head that like this I'm imagining this stuff.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

But I guess it was 20 years later, it feels like a dream or a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

I can remember things so clearly, but that's the problem, is like some of the things I can remember so clearly didn't happen. But then like some of the things that I like but the other things I I did, but so I don't know. Nice. Um I I remember uh what's that on good?

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Oh if you had uh if you had one, I was gonna go ahead and go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 11:50

I remember building a smoke pit too. Uh that's that's all I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_02 11:54

Do you uh so I know SpongeCammer and Rainmaker, I knew just because of our people, uh we were able to do a lot more of the raids and stuff like that. Did you uh were you a part of any of the dismounted getting into the into the uh doing any door kits?

SPEAKER_01 12:12

Um yeah, um like I said, for the first couple, um well, for the first like two months or so, two I think two months at least, um I was a dismount.

Night Raids And Moral Whiplash

SPEAKER_01 12:22

I think probably three months actually. I was a dismount. Um one one of my biggest things in the we was going through my head, like as we were doing these raids, is like, you know, don't get me wrong, uh hold no like fucking love or sympathy or anything like that. Like I was thinking, we're kicking these people's door in at three o'clock in the morning, like shoving guns in their kids' faces and like yelling at them and shit like that. And they're still just like offering us tea and asking us to sit down and talk to them and shit. Like that that's they're pretty shitty. But uh I said first for all and you know uh the the Arabic that we were told the the the they learned was not Iraqi Arabic, like that's not so so most of the time the shit that we were told to yell at them wasn't even like what they spoke.

SPEAKER_02 13:13

No, they uh when we I was part of the uh the group that went to the Arabic school and uh what they were teaching us was uh Egyptian Arabic, which is a classical like it's yeah, well it and what it is is it's it's it's what you would be getting if you would like if you were watching like main like quote unquote mainstream movies is would be.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Oh, yeah, no, that's uh I mean uh I don't know but Marhaba is Ronak Shibara gets me Justin and I mean Amrika and Amrisa Watalatun etaharatun kuyimen minogatial. I like I mean I'm I'm pretty fluent with uh just my my pronunciation is terrible, but sure.

SPEAKER_02 13:54

Well that that that was the problem, is that we got over there and the Iraqi dialect was just different enough that there was uh some confusion.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Right, yeah it's yeah. I was gonna say, like uh just it's just certain things that like the some of the things they say, and like like a lot of um how how are you, you know, those they taught kafowlik or kaif hawlika and shit, and uh there they say shlonik or shabar. Yeah, that's uh so I I I try to I remember thinking like we're yelling at these people and stuff, they don't even know what we're saying. Um but like I said at the same time, it's not get a gun jammed in your face, like point it down, it's not hard to hard to understand what we want.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

No. Do you uh did you ever take them up on the offer of tea?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Or the little the little uh I I love the chai. I love the chai and um the the the pita bread and stuff there.

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:51

Um and um one of the other things that had um because uh we would give that Rocco, the that interpreter Rocco, the like the dude that was real real big and um he he he went out and got us food and um I got what were they called? Um Sam Sambosas.

Tea Offers And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_01 15:13

Sambosas um they're like a a deep deep fried pocket of meat. They were good as shit.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Yeah. Any of the food that I had I I did eat over there was was good.

SPEAKER_01 15:25

I mean really good. Oh yeah, as I said, even though you know they're like they're they're butchering the goat in the middle of the street and like it's unsanitary as fuck.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

But oh, you definitely took your life into your own hands. I mean, I I don't know if eating the food was more dangerous or uh walking down the street.

SPEAKER_01 15:41

But uh the thing that blew my mind, like the the flies over there, like and how they would just let them crawl all over their face and not like brush them off, that drove me nuts. That that drove me nuts. That like they would just sit there with these flies crawling their face. I um or like this is I I remember being at a I think it was the police station one day, and there was a cow there, I remember because the whole thing like this guy was like kneeled down washing his face and drinking out of a mud puddle, and like four foot away was a cow pissing into that mud puddle. Yeah, man. Um I'm like sitting there watching this, like, how do you not see this?

SPEAKER_03 16:32

The role, though, especially the farmers and stuff you ran into had a very different way of life.

SPEAKER_00 16:39

Like, I mean I've been to farms in America.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

I don't remember anybody washing their face and cow piss. But uh there was definitely, I mean, just far different hygiene standards, far different living standards.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

It was uh it was interesting. And um did it didn't we uh didn't we one day get like um didn't they try to ambush us or something at the police station one day? They like called and told us that they were getting attacked or something, and once we got there, they like locked the gate behind us.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Did that happen? I that I don't know. You would have to tell me I wasn't with your platoon, so maybe it did.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

I will I want to say like something along those lines happened. Like they they tried to ambush us at a police station out there. Um

Police Stations And Trust Problems

SPEAKER_01 17:23

I can't remember what part of the town it was in, but like um and then like once they once the they ambushed us there, and like we fought those guys, we tried to like confront the police chief there, and he tried to act like he didn't know what was going on.

SPEAKER_02 17:37

Um like I mean that to be fair, to be fair, all the elements of what you're presenting works out. I mean, yeah, 100% plausible.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

I I I to be honest, it I I could be completely imagining all that. But I think that happened.

SPEAKER_03 17:53

I mean, the so the battalion commander personally went and arrested the chief of police for giving over information to the insurgents, which I mean I say arrested like he had a badge, but they took him into custody and turned him over to the army command. And I don't know what they did.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

They took him, took him to the Jurassic Park. Yeah, yeah. That was that that was it, that was it. Um that that was was that at um Junction City, or was that somewhere that we just dropped him off there?

SPEAKER_02 18:23

Well, there was we I well, at least we dropped off at two different places. Yep. Sometimes we went all the way up to Al-Assad, and then there was one at JC. Yep.

unknown 18:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 18:35

It depended, it depended on how it was it depended on whether or not your confidence of the level of right, whether they were bad, yeah, yeah. Like like the JC guys that was just we did a lot of those with like when we were doing like anybody between 16 and 60, grab them. We're gonna process them over it. We're gonna process them here. But if you had there was a couple times that we had we we grabbed some guys that were on our list and we would take them sometimes all the way up.

SPEAKER_03 19:06

I don't know if you remember it, but the in the mid-summer we had the marine human extraction team guys come and set up at the palace, and they put up that circus tent. That was their uh that was their interrogation tent. And so we would bring that. Yeah, we would bring some of the I was saying I thought okay, I do remember that, yeah. Yeah, some of the uh the supposed high values would go into that circus tent and they would just keep them awake for hours on hours on hours. I mean it was like they were

Interrogation Tent And Base Rumors

SPEAKER_03 19:34

in there for 30, 40 hours.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

I was gonna say, I I I remember asking like what that was, and they're like somebody's like, oh, they're in there. That's that's the head team in there.

SPEAKER_03 19:42

Yep. Yeah, that's exactly right. You weren't allowed to go in there, but it was a it looked like a circus.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Yeah, I was saying, yeah, you couldn't go, couldn't go in, yeah. Um and uh correct me wrong, did we did we like shoot the the toilet guy or like the the Portageon guy or the the clothes guy, the laundry guys or something? Did we shoot one of them guys?

SPEAKER_02 20:03

We went through a couple, and yes, one of them, one of them we definitely we killed, and then another one disappeared, and who knows what happened to him.

SPEAKER_01 20:15

But yeah, I was gonna say, because in my in my mind, I I don't remember who was the toilet guy or something, because I remember at one point somebody stopped sucking out the tor the Portageons, but I also remember somebody stopped doing our laundry too. So oh, I didn't I didn't even know we had laundry service, so that was yeah, like yeah, what for what like two weeks, two or three weeks. Um at the beginning of Hurricane Point, there was like a little building right across the from the palace that you could drop off your camis and shit there, and like two guys would wash them.

SPEAKER_03 20:46

Wow. You were among the uh the elite because I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 20:51

I didn't know I knew that either. We were trying to use I tried to use that goddamn washer like twice and I gave up on over and then from there on the I was saying it wasn't it didn't last very long.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

I would say it might have been two weeks that we had the the those guys. It was uh huh, it was like right by the shower right by the showers. They had like a little little building there that um you could drop oh that you could drop off your camis.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Huh. I I mean I know it. I just don't don't I don't remember that at all. Did they was it like same day service, or did or did I want to say it was same day service?

SPEAKER_01 21:31

I want to say it was same-day service. Like you would drop them off in the morning and come back in the afternoon and they were done. I I think that's what it was.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

Because I can't imagine the face.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

No, I was gonna say I think they were essentially just using that the that washing machine behind the palace. I'm pretty sure that's what they were doing.

SPEAKER_02 21:48

Oh, well that might be that might be the other part of the story is that that's why those washers were back there. Yeah, I'm pretty sure that that was a big thing. Originally they were using the Iraqis and then eventually they were. Not allowed on the base anymore. And so then you had to do your own.

SPEAKER_01 22:04

That might have been it too, yeah. Because I would say, I know somebody was doing our laundry at the beginning. So I was like, holy shit, I feel like the airport. Somebody's doing my laundry and shit. And then, yeah, like that that lasted like a week, and then they were like, Yep, you're gonna do your own. Oh, that didn't last long.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

I know there was a drop-off laundry over at Junction City because I I had heard, and I it was nobody in my platoon, but I had heard that uh at least one of the officers that were in our that was in our company was dropping off their laundry there. And then whenever they'd go back for chow, they would pick up their stuff.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

But that's too funny. Yeah, that's hilarious. I didn't know that one.

SPEAKER_03 22:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

Um yeah, that's that's that's that's um.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

I was just it just that last story just made me think about how almost mythical JC was to us. It was like Shangri-La. Right, right, yeah. It had a PX, it had a good chow hall.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah, yeah, you'd you'd get you'd get a rumor started in the beginning of the day, like, oh, we're gonna get chow today, or uh uh Jay-Z or something. Like, and all of a sudden it was like delineated amongst the people we're we're getting chow today, we're getting chow today. Everybody's all looking forward to it. Yep. And their their PX had Doritos and shit, like so the it was it was special events.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Well um well, kind of going through the summer and back to the end of it, do you remember kind of winding down the deployment? Kind of what that felt like for you? The feeling of maybe maybe you'd get to go home.

SPEAKER_01 23:39

I wanna say uh like by this time uh I think uh at the end of like at the end of the deployment there. I remember going

Junction City As Shangri La

SPEAKER_01 23:55

to Junction City and uh did we stay in Junction City for like a month or something like that at the end of the deployment?

SPEAKER_03 24:02

Definitely wasn't a month.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Like 30 days okay, maybe it might not have been, but did we stay in these little ho we stayed in these little cabins, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

The C V built something. How long were we there? Like that that felt that felt like it was uh I felt like we were there forever there.

SPEAKER_03 24:15

I was there three days. I don't know how long you guys were there before me because everybody Oh no, I think I was there, I think I was there at least a week. You were probably there maybe a week or two, but uh because every platoon went in different waves, but uh we stayed back to do the handoff with uh 2-5, and so okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

I think we were only there for a hot second.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

It was not long enough.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Yeah, but you guys definitely like there was other elements that were there for longer, though.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

At least a week. You were probably yeah, I was gonna say because I was gonna say, yeah, I remember because I I've um I had utilized the uh internet cafe thing that they had there probably three or four times. So I had to be there longer than three days.

SPEAKER_03 24:59

What were you doing with the Internet Cafe?

SPEAKER_01 25:04

I had started talking to this um girl from La Jolla in California that I was going back there to to talk to her and stuff.

SPEAKER_03 25:12

You should have sealed that deal, man. La Jolla is a rich, rich town.

SPEAKER_01 25:16

Yeah, she was uh Japanese and ended up going back to Japan. So like um probably I I think like three months after we had gotten back, she she had left, so it didn't last very long. But Hersher Hersher Hersher Hersher is the one that like hooked me up with her.

SPEAKER_03 25:38

That's funny.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

That's awesome. Uh yeah, her name was Hitomi.

SPEAKER_02 25:46

So what do you remember uh coming back to the States?

SPEAKER_01 25:51

Um I remember well I I remember coming back, so so Ema Ema is one of my one of my close friends and stuff, and uh he ended up getting in trouble obviously over there. And um and uh when I came back I th I thought he was gonna be in prison and shit, but um he ended up being my roommate when

Coming Home To Silence And Gift Cards

SPEAKER_01 26:14

we came back because Hurley was with the wounded Hurley was my roommate, and then he got with that wounded or the was it not wounded warriors, uh the wounded battalion, whatever that was. And and for some reason they wouldn't let us be roommates anymore. Um so so I ended up being with Ema and stuff, and uh and I I remember like um McLeod. Uh like the like just that that that starts getting a little more fuzzy there. That like I can just remember, like I said, like little glances of people like McLeod. Um I remember getting off the bus when we came back there. I felt like shit, like everybody had family there waiting for him and stuff like that, and I had nobody. Yeah. Uh but uh again, and uh I sat I I I want to say somebody else, I would say Hersher or somebody else that got we we sat there and just drank beer out of this keg that they had there for us until everybody else is gone. Um and then uh they gave us $200 Walmart gift cards or something like that. They gave uh I think it was like $150, $200 Walmart gift cards when he first came back.

SPEAKER_03 27:26

You know, you remember that I forgot about that. I I also forgot you're oh wow, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:32

I think well I I remember that because we all went and bought liquor with it. We all went and bought liquor Walmart with it. And then like for the next week we were showing up at formation like half half cocked them all the time.

SPEAKER_03 27:44

You know, it's it's funny you mentioned that. So Walmart was not allowed to open a location in California for years and years and years. They literally opened that one that was just south of the base, just south of Oceanside, uh fucking right before we deployed. Literally right before we deployed. And so they were trying to make they were trying to do all kinds of shit for good PR moves. I think on Thanksgiving, if I remember correctly, on Thanksgiving, uh any Marine who would show up with uh an active duty ID, they would give a free turkey to.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I would say, yeah, turkey too. Yep, I remember that.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

When we came back, every unit that came back, they were given out, yeah. I don't remember how much the gift card was for there. That's crazy that you remember that. You're the first person.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah, it was it was either 250. It was either $200 or $150. Because I remember like I remember saying, Well, what are we supposed to do with this? And somebody was like, Well, you know, buy like you know, shaving cream, shaving gear, like stuff like that, like the utilities. And I was like, So you might you mean buy a bunch of liquor, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:48

That's hilarious. No, I forgot, I totally forgot it, but you're right, it was a decent amount of money. I I I had completely forgotten about that, man. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

And then uh well, I I remember I remember that because E Mai had just turned 21. Like right when we got back there, and um we went so we went to um we went to that Molly Bloom's off of base. Oh yeah. That was that Ivory. Oh, yeah. And it was me, Accles, me, Accles, um, Hurley, and E Mai. And I would say Acres might have been there too, but uh E Mai ended up getting so drunk that he pissed on the bar uh at Molly Bloom's. And and then like I wasn't 21, so like these guys are all trash, and I'm trying to get back onto base and I'm driving, and like as soon as we get to the guard shack, I went, I go to like uh go to go to pull up air, and Hurley's head comes poking out the passenger window, puking his guts out, and I'm like, oh great, I'm I'm getting hit for this right now. And they waved us through, and we got back here, and um, we had a uh hump like a couple days later, or uh the next day or something like that. But that night we came back and E my ended up waking up in the middle of the night and pissing in his wall locker all over his gear, and the next morning or the next day we had the hump and we're like on the hump, and Captain Wiler's like, why does it smell like piss so bad? Uh and I just laughed my ass up because E my like oh I don't know, sir. Yeah, he's kind of pissed. But he uh and then and then when Molly Blooms kicked him out, he tried to fight Ackles in the Jack in the Box parking lot uh for because because Molly Blooms kicked him out and Ackles is iris. That that was that was his his justification for this. Yep, good reason. And you might try to fight him, and and the cop showed up, and like these two are like so drunk that both of them are swinging at each other and not even coming close to hitting each other. And the cop pulls up and he's like, Did you uh have this under control? I was like, Yeah, yeah, the tone's over. I I can handle this, and he let us go. So I got them back on base and shit. And um, I I remember fucking trying trying to take uh Hurley Hurley in there, and he ended at ended up sleeping in his um that's why I say that's why I remember the whole Walmart gift card thing and stuff because that all happened. Yeah, that's crazy during that time. Yeah, that was gross.

SPEAKER_02 31:39

Um yeah, I don't think there was anybody that wasn't uh oh no pickling themselves.

SPEAKER_01 31:46

I don't drink alcohol at all now or anything like that. So it's like now looking back on that, I'm like, damn man, well, what the hell am I doing?

SPEAKER_03 31:52

It's it's crazy because everybody would drink all night, and then that was right at the same time that um Red Bull and Monster Energy Drink were sponsoring were sponsoring those two coolers in the PX. And there was 700 different flavors of all the new energy drinks were being so everybody was just chugging energy drinks all day long and then chugging booze all night long, and it was the most toxic combination ever. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Yeah, it was. It was uh it was so bad. I said, like most of us literally just existed on nicotine and energy drinks. It was it was bad.

SPEAKER_02 32:32

Oh man, remember you talking about that made me think. Um remember they put that uh individual, it was a vending machine in the uh there was that weird building that was like down by the uh it was a common voting, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

Like common voting, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:49

Yeah, but but they had a vending machine for personal pan pizzas. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 32:54

I yeah, I do I do remember that. Yeah, like he heated that thing up like it was sort of like a microwave pizza, basically.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Yeah, man, I forgot about that, man. We out that thing would only last for a few days. They would restock it and it would be like out. But I remember standing in there like at like three in the morning, like trying to get a you know, drunkenly get another pizza.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

What was the guy's what was that delivery guy from was it Domino's?

SPEAKER_03 33:16

No, no, no, no, he was from Little Caesars. You're talking about hot pizza. Yeah, hot pizza, yep, yep, yep pizza motherfucker every day.

SPEAKER_01 33:26

I was saying, yep. Yep. I um I I I said I said I remember because somebody somebody posted a picture of him online, and like they're the they were like, Well, what is this supposed to be? So I was like, dude, hot pizza motherfucker! And he's like, That guy knows.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

I said, Yep, um forgot about him, man. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 33:49

Well, yeah, um moving forward a little bit, just uh you so you end up staying in for four years total.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Yeah, yeah, no, no. I end up uh getting out right after the deployment there. Uh oh.

SPEAKER_03 34:04

I don't think I knew that.

SPEAKER_01 34:05

Wait, what? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:07

So did you didn't go to Oki?

SPEAKER_03 34:10

No, no. Okay. Well, I'm not looking to revisit any memories, but it sounds like you

Getting Out Early And Losing Your Tribe

SPEAKER_03 34:17

were separated early, is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Yes, yeah, yeah. Um yeah, yeah, like I said, it was me. I'm not gonna say that I don't throw anybody under the bus, but yeah, yeah, yeah. We had we ended up doing stupid shit.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

Dude, that's crazy. I don't think I've got the only ticket out. I don't think I know that.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Yeah, I don't think that I yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

Yeah, there were there were through all the comp through all the companies. I think there were 35 of us.

SPEAKER_02 34:46

Whoa. I did not know that.

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Was this like January time frame?

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Or after?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

Because this would have been, I mean, this is a little bit after January, a little bit after January, I think. Um okay. I want to say I want to say April ish, maybe June, somewhere around there. Right before the Oki deployment, then yes, it was um, yeah, then it was like right before the Oki deployment.

SPEAKER_02 35:13

Okay, wow. And that's some crazy shit, man. Well, that's true too far. Yeah, because that's um that's that's the same thing.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Yeah, yeah, that's that's not that. I mean fucking I do what I wish I would have made better decisions.

SPEAKER_02 35:26

I do, but at the time I was a stupid ass kid and making dumb choices and and and just I there is it is only through God Himself and and miracles and the angels that I did not get I I sh uh the I mean Nile can tell the stories better than me because I don't remember them, but I should have had paperwork on me so many times.

SPEAKER_01 35:51

No, I mean I mean don't get me wrong, I don't like I I mean I you know I I have a I have a good discharge and everything, just but like I mean I I wish I wish that I would have made made better choices and shit. Don't like like I said, that that was my biggest that was my biggest regret because I like I said you get you guys were my family. Like I I didn't have anything before that. So so I I was really upset by losing losing you guys and stuff because that was that was a big thing for me. And uh and definitely it it affected me when I came out and came back and stuff because uh like I said, you you guys were all I had for a long time. And um thankfully, thankfully, um I lived I lived right by McLeod. Um me and McLeod lived pretty close to each other. And um he was like my lifeline for for a long time. Um but we we got really close and stuff after we got out. And uh and yeah, he was my lifeline for a while. And um, yeah, when it was losing losing him was was hard too. Um I love I love Jamie. Uh unfortunate that we lost a lot of people after coming home. That that's that's a sad thing, you know. The people that we lost in combat, and then we lose more people coming home.

SPEAKER_03 37:04

You were just you'd read my mind. That's exactly what I was gonna say. We have lost more after uh than we lost than we lost in theater.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

And we that's that's a that's a shame. That's that's that's a shame.

McLeod, Relapse, And The Losses After

SPEAKER_03 37:17

McLeod's another one of those. He uh uh looked like Elvis and uh had a huge personality.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

I love Jamie. He he's I Jamie will always be one of my best friends. I I love that guy to death because he was especially like after we got out, like he was the one person that I I never had to like never even had to think about whether like he would if I if he needed help if I needed help or something like that, he was there no matter what time it was, no matter what time of night it was, anything. I'd call him and he was there. And and like that's rare, you know, especially uh in the civilian world and shit. So and and it really upset me because like um he was d like when we when we got out and stuff, we had both we both got sober and stuff. Like we both we both quit everything uh and stuff. And so and then um well when he did pass, uh he called me like shortly before before that and stuff, and I I should have knew something was up because I I could hear in his voice that he had relapsed, obviously. Like you could I mean you couldn't you know Jamie when he was drunk or anything like his voice got the that accent got a lot thicker and stuff. So I knew something was up.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

So I should have knew then and there, but like you know, hindsight's 2020, but no, I I was he was I I was living in DC at the time and he was just in Alexandria, and so we were hanging out a little bit, like right before he passed.

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Okay, well yeah, you uh yeah, you know, yeah. Yeah, no, he was he was doing good and he was doing he was doing so well, and yeah, I I don't know if that well um like I said just out of nowhere, he uh he was doing so well and then everything happened.

SPEAKER_03 39:06

Yeah. Well Justin, I think I think that's a good place to round it out, to be honest. To round it out with a good a good memory of a good person.

SPEAKER_01 39:15

And I I I I well I will say like I mean, I I I I love you guys. Like too, I I'll do anything for any of you guys. Uh don't get me wrong, there there were people when two, four I didn't get along with, but I would still I'd do anything for any of them. I I love you guys. You guys were the best, you guys were the best thing that ever happened in my life, aside from my son. You guys were you guys were

Brotherhood, Leadership, And Closing Words

SPEAKER_01 39:36

the best highlight of my life, man. And then as bad as Iraq was and stuff, though, that was probably one of the highlights of my life, too. Because uh being surrounded by you guys. I I said I said people ask me if I would do it again. I I said if I if I could go back with the same people, I would I would do it in a heartbeat. I would do it in a heartbeat. No questions asked. And I mean, there could I I I credit I credit you know me coming home and stuff to to to like the people I was around and the like the leadership we had and stuff, you know. Like I uh I don't begrudge the leadership anything for my stupid choices or anything. Like we had amazing leadership and and shit, like with you know, um Captain Wilder, what but now just General Wilder now?

SPEAKER_03 40:21

Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

I I was gonna I thought I thought so. I I thought I'd heard that. I that's true. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

I believe he got a second star.

SPEAKER_01 40:29

I think he's major like uh so I said, like yeah, you know, and he he definitely deserves it. But like that's we lucked out with incredible leadership. I mean, you know, like um General Kennedy, General Kennedy, and all that from our from our officers down to our NCOs. Like, I mean, you know, like you guys and stuff were if it wasn't for the small unit leadership being as good as it was, you know, we would have we we would have got chewed alive, we would have got eaten alive. We we we were able to do what we were able to do with one battalion what it took what four after we left to hold Romani.

unknown 41:09

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

We were able to do that because because of of the solid the solid guys we had and the solid leadership we had and shit. And and our and our NCOs wouldn't do like they they weren't trying to do or trying to make us do something that they wouldn't do. You know, they they weren't expecting you to do something that they weren't willing to do themselves and shit. And and that was went a long way. I uh I definitely remember I like yeah, I I had full confidence in in the leadership about me. There was no times where I was like, man, maybe that doesn't sound like a good idea. I I I always thought, you know, no, like he he even when I was like, Yeah, well that that sounds pretty intense. I I still had faith it would it would work out. Nice. And then like I said, I I I fully believe that that was because of you guys and stuff. But I mean we we had solid leadership and shit. And I try I I tell my son all the time about like, believe me, my my son knows all of you guys, like by name and everything, because I tell stories all the time about uh everything and what an influence you guys had on me and stuff. So it definitely definitely meant a lot.

SPEAKER_03 42:16

Well, it's cool, man. Well, thanks for making time to talk to us.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

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