Constant Combat

The Cost Measured in Minutes - Joshua Kohen (part 1 of 2)

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Josh Kohen of MAP2 trades the polished war-movie version for what it actually felt like to arrive as a new Marine, get absorbed into a depleted unit, and stumble into combat fast. We discuss identity, communication failures, and the small routines that kept us steady when everything around us stayed unpredictable in part 1 of this interview. 

• getting pulled from security forces, landing in 2-4 by surprise 
• early drinking trouble, owning mistakes
• the strange deployment journey
• stop loss impacts, gutted units, and a “skeleton” company
• short Arabic school and why it became unsafe to use 
• early Ramadi shock, pop shots, weddings, and getting numb to incoming
• hooch life stories
• music as survival, a Kuwait PX boombox, and discovering country music 
• Abrams friendly fire, lack of comms between units, and lessons learned 

If you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the story. 


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If you are a member of Weapons Company or someone with a story about Weapons Company 2/4 in 2004, please come tell some stories with us - 20 mins or 20 hours! Help paint the canvas of an archival story for others to know what it was like. Contact us @ RamadiPodcast@gmail.com, or via the podcast website above. 

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From School To The Fleet

SPEAKER_01

There you go. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00

Josh Cohen in 2004, I was a Lance Corporal. Um, or I think it was a PFC when we first went, Lance Corporal, I think, by the time we we finished our deployment. Um but yeah, I joined to four I want to say about five or six months before we before we deployed. Yeah. Um, I was in security force school. Uh and then from there, I I didn't pistol qual the first time around. And kind of right when we were going to do like the second qual, uh, they were like, hey, uh, we're sending a bunch of you guys to the fleet. And I was like, I'm like, okay. And I and I it was actually really funny because I don't think I was supposed to end up at 2-4. Um, I was in Virginia and they gave me an option to like they said, like, hey, what do you want to do? Do you want to fly to your next duty station or do you want to drive? And I and at the time we weren't allowed to have a car in school, like in our in our security force school. So I was like, I want to drive. And then they gave me like, all right, well, you have 10 days to report. And I was like, okay, cool. So I was like, where am I going? You know, I didn't I didn't really know yet. And then they were like, Um, we'll let you know, like, I think it was like the next day, and then they were like, Hey, you're going out to Camp Pendleton. And I was like, Oh, well, in that case, I probably would have picked flying, but all right, I'll drive. Um, so I ended up driving home uh or getting a ride home, picking up my my and I said to my mom, I was like, Hey, I don't know the next time I'm gonna be home. Um, based on kind of they're sending us all to the fleet right now. So, like, why don't you take a ride with me? Like, let's drive out to California. Uh just drove out. Um, I think I was the only one. I think there was me and I don't think anyone else came in. There, I think there was a boot drop, let's call it, uh, like a month or so after I got to the fleet. Um but I'll I'll tell you a funny story. My my like first weekend, um, and and I won't use names in the story. My first weekend, I was I was I was in the fleet, and uh someone's like, hey, let's go out and have a couple drinks. And I was like, All right, cool, let's do it. Um and we both got a little too drunk, and um one of us drove back onto base, and uh luckily enough, there was someone from our unit uh uh at the gate, and uh we we did we did get in some trouble, and my first maybe four or five days I had to go to at the time Corporal Hardin and be like, um, hey, I was just brought back by the MPs for Trump drop murder. And he it was it was like two in the morning, and he was like in his underwear just screaming at me in the barracks, and I was like, Oh shit, here we go again. Um and that was that was my like that was probably my first week. Um, we ended up not getting in that much trouble, and I think it was because to be really honest with you, I think it was because we were honest, we were like, hey, we we screwed up, you know, like we didn't try to play it off and make some kind of crazy story, and then we just got super lucky that the guy at the gate. Um I think he had he had left the unit when you guys got back from Oki right before. Yeah and he was now he was at like he was in he was on gate guard or whatever. Um and I want to say his name might have been I forgot his name. Um, but anyway, if it wasn't for him, we probably would have gotten a lot more trouble. But because of him, and I think because of the fact that we were we were honest, I think that helped that helped a lot.

SPEAKER_03

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00

I we didn't get intoo much we didn't get in too much trouble. The funny part about that is though um right the day or day or two before um we actually deployed Matroca and I were out at uh out at a club, and uh it was one of those clubs that kind of let you in if you were under 21. Um but to drink to drink you had to be 21. Um and I had a I had a I had a fake ID. So I used that ID and the guy looked at me, he's like, that's not you, dude. And he he basically arrested us, or he arrested me, not uh not uh Metroca. And uh it was and I'll never forget it. We were out there, Metroca was like talking to the guy, and he was like, Listen, he's like, We are literally deploying in like two days. Like, is there anything you can do? And I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was something of the nature like I'm gonna turn away for a second, and if you guys just disappear, like you just disappear. So, like literally before we deployed in the fleet, like four or five months, I had gotten trouble with drinking at some in some way, shape, or form, two different times.

SPEAKER_03

And then infantry marines experience.

SPEAKER_00

I love it. Exactly, exactly. And and I look at it, I'm like a you know, kid from Jersey out in California. I was just having to have a good time, you know. Um, but that was that

Early Trouble And Hard Lessons

SPEAKER_00

was my first couple weeks or months in the fleet until we until we deployed, and then I'm sure you guys remember we we we took off from our deployment, we took off to go to Iraq and we broke down in New Jersey, yeah. We broke down a mcuire Air Force Base in New Jersey, and I was like trying to like I don't think there was texting back then. I was I think I was just calling my friends and being like, you know, trying to figure out if they could meet us at base and bring us uh alcohol, basically. Um I'm from Newark Jersey, so it's about two, two and a half hours away. And um, and then I I think if you guys remember they like they opened up the PX for us and they and everyone somehow got some alcohol before we took off. And we were we we I think we drank a lot for about a day and a half.

SPEAKER_01

Yep. Yeah, we did one PT run, and then everybody talked about how beautiful the barracks and chal hall was, and and then drank. Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right.

SPEAKER_00

It's I mean listen, Meguiar Air Force Base is a pretty well known uh uh base, and I mean it's still a very, you know, it's still a huge, it's a huge base in New Jersey.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I actually think now it's like um I think now it's they they they added something to it. So I think it's an Air Force base, but now there's there's something, there's like a naval academy, I think that's there now.

SPEAKER_03

Oh interesting.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, those are those are my those are my first couple couple memories uh that I was thinking about when we decided to book this. I was like, I I think I gotta tell those those couple stories. Yeah, I had trouble.

SPEAKER_01

I remember you showing up to us solo, but I did not remember that it was because they cut you from security forces early and just basically stole you and brought you to us.

SPEAKER_00

Uh yeah, there was about there was about like six or seven of us. So uh there was a couple of us that like either just didn't qual or you know, they like had to wait to take their pistol call. And then um literally that remember they they came in, we were in like a barracks, but it was like like kind of squad based, like we're all slept, we were all together. And um they were like they just called out a couple names, and then like you guys are gonna basically just said you guys are going to the fleet, and we're like, wait, what? I like I I think I was supposed to go to Bahrain. Um, and I was like, Oh, all right, cool. Where am I going? Um, and and then like I said, they just I think it was like the next day they told me, like, oh, you're going to California or you're going to Camp Pendleton. I was like, all right, cool.

SPEAKER_03

I never I've never thought about the secondary effect of of the fact that like we weren't the only unit that had a stop hold stop loss for an extended period of time because there was the transition was supposed, you know, that that stop hold stop loss started in December of 02 and then lasted for like a it was it was like eight months or something like that. And so several units experienced like an absolute gutting of their battalion, and we were no different. I mean, I I I know every one of us has that that were that stayed on after Oki. Like we we were like skeleton, like even skeletons may be uh a too strong of a word for it. Like there was only a handful of us, and I think they were just really like if if if they could possibly pull you into some of these battalions, they were doing everything they could to just fill them back up. But I never thought about it from the side of on like for you, who got pulled from something when uh normally you would have gotten another shot, but it's like nope, you didn't get on the first pass, you're coming over here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I I actually look at it and think that I was, you know, it's kind of funny because you don't want to ever like unk anything or fail anything, but it was actually probably the best thing that happened to me, to be really honest with you. I I got you, if I remember correctly, you guys, like you said, were kind of like a skeleton company, like weapons weapons at the time was like a skeleton crew. Like I might have been like one of 30 or 40 marines that were in weapons at that point. So, like for me, it was great because I came in at this, like I was a boot, you know, and I was the only one that came in, but there really wasn't a lot of Marines that were in the unit or in the company at the time. So by the time we got our next boot drop, which was probably only like two months later, I wasn't like a boot anymore, even though I was, but I wasn't, you know, like it was it was I actually kind of got lucky. Um, and and and listen, I probably wouldn't trade I wouldn't trade it for anything, right? Um being getting getting sent to 2-4 was was awesome. You know, I've got lifelong friends and memories and experiences that you know I would I would never want to trade for anything else. Obviously, a few that like to trade the outcomes, but um, but yeah, it was definitely a blessing, to be honest with you. Like failing that and and not going to Bahrain and getting sent out to the fleet was was probably a great thing. And and the reason I say that is there's a good chance that if I had done my Bahrain tour or whatever they were gonna send me,

The Weird Trip To Iraq

SPEAKER_00

that I probably would have been a combat replacement into a unit that I didn't uh know or didn't train with and wasn't you know, like because if you remember, we even when we were there, we got a couple people that were like combat replacements um that just were dropped right in, and that's probably what would have happened uh for me. I mean, it might not have been 2-4 or whatever, it might have just been it might not have been Iraq, could have been Afghanistan, but a bunch of the guys that I knew that went to security force school, uh, when they did end up finishing their like year and a half or two years, they were just dropped into um battalions wherever they were.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah, I mean that's that's kind of what happened with Harden. I mean, Harden was security forces, and then he just randomly showed up one day, right? I unfortunately it wasn't during a combat deployment, but it he I mean he didn't know anybody, didn't know anything, and he was a random corporal that showed up. So I mean Condi was the same way. Condi showed up, and uh and it took a while for him to integrate initially as well. As well loved as he was by the time you got there, he was not when he first showed up. He was like, you know, the odd man out who showed up all by himself.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I mean, listen, like I said, the first week I was there, uh hardened laid into me, and I remember just feeling like I wanted to like crawl into a you know, crawl under a bed and just hide for a minute. Uh Sergeant Condi was was so was so welcoming. I mean, he was he was awesome. Um, I really I really had a good relationship with him. Uh he wasn't he wasn't in our platoon, no um, but he was just a a great person to be around. Great Marine to be around to.

SPEAKER_03

Now, re remind me, you you were one of the Marines that did the uh the Arabic school prior to uh us going over, right? I yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It was like I think it was probably like four weeks that they sent us. It was actually really cool because they I was I don't remember the exact term, but I was basically attached to that unit. So like I did not have to like I wasn't like part of my platoon or company for that four weeks. Yeah, so we would go to class and then after I would and it was always it was all the way down on like main side, so right after um I would just head out, like we would finish up at like three, four o'clock, I would head out to the beach, but yeah, the Arabic school was was pretty cool. Um, you know, I had I knew a bunch of Arabic words um just just because um my I mean my my family, even though we're you know we're Israeli, right? My family is from an Arab country. Uh my family's Yemen from so we're we're Yemen. That's right.

SPEAKER_01

I did remember that. I I was trying to put the two and two together, I could not remember.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So my my my father grew up, you know, um speaking Hebrew, but also knowing Arabic. Um, so I like I knew the dialect a little bit, um, and there's so many different ones. Um I didn't I didn't know much, but yes, I did go and it was pretty good. And I think someone else kind of talked about it in one of the um one of the podcasts, but it was very short-lived. I made a bunch of signs, which was great. Like there were some signs that we made that that were like stop or you know, security checkpoint. We did a bunch of that in Arabic writing. But very, very early on, they kind of when we were when we were in Iraq, uh, they called me out. They were they like knew. Um, and I remember one time there was like there was like a civilian crowd that was getting pretty heated, and we were like, I gotta get the fuck out of here. Like these these these people do not like me at all. Um, and they knew I wasn't Arabic. They were trying to like figure out like, was I Israeli or what I was, um, but they they knew I was Jewish. I I you know they thought I was at least. Um so that that kind of stopped pretty quickly. I only I only probably had a very few experiences where we tried where I tried to use the Arabic that I learned.

SPEAKER_01

Well, it didn't help that we named you as your call sign Hebrew Hammer. Yeah, and we we also figured out from that experience that we stopped calling you Hebrew Hammer and you were just you were just the hammer. Yeah, you were just the hammer. Yeah, we're like, oh shit, we can't say that.

SPEAKER_00

That that was pretty funny. I think and I think it was like really early on, like maybe like uh the first like three weeks, two, three weeks we were there.

SPEAKER_01

Like it wasn't yeah, if I remember correctly, that was the time that we had escorted EOD out for an IED thing, and the crowd was huge for whatever

Stop Loss And A Skeleton Unit

SPEAKER_01

reason. Like on uh three sides of us, the crowd was huge. And the EOD idiots were having problems with the robot, and that was when the guy tried to lasso the robot with a piece of 550 cord to pull it back in when the battery died.

SPEAKER_00

I I I think you're I think that is the right that is the right time that that happened.

SPEAKER_01

And you were trying to be nice and just tell them like please back up. That was it, that was all you were saying was like please back up. And and they started saying stuff and using words, I don't know what the words were, but using words that basically like yeah, saying you were from Israel or or Hebrew or whatever, anyway. And that was when um it got it got they started throwing rocks, they got heated, and big boy was like, fix bayonets, and we're like what and he's like fix bayonets, they'll back up, and like okay, and we that was we fixed bayonets. I'm glad we did not use that, but we actually put them on the end of our rifle, and like he was right, they backed up.

SPEAKER_00

They backed up, but it was also first sergeant that came out, and he was like, I don't know, seven feet tall. Yeah, uh and he came walking up with his like you know, his like his big gate that he had, yeah, and he was like, you know, hey, what's going on over here, you know? And once they looked at him, I like they started backing up a little bit too. They were like, All right, this man's like, you know, uh three of us all, yeah, exactly. So that that that was it, that was the time. Yep. And then and then after that, we're like, all right, you know what, maybe this isn't the the best use. Like it was a it was a good try. But I think I like I said, from there, I think I just made some like we had those wooden boards that we would like make signs on, yeah. Again, like tech point, vehicle checkpoint, stop. Um, so I think we just utilized utilized those. But you know, I'll give you I'll tell you a funny story. I think Groves hit on it a little bit. Um, and I I was I remember I text him after I listened to it. I was like, yo, you you missed some some you missed some good parts of that story. Um, and and more, and like, and I didn't even really remember it until he started talking about it. But we got to Kuwait, and and I'm sure you guys remember, like, we didn't really have much. Like, we had we basically had like black jackets without sappy plates in them. We didn't have we had trucks with no armor, yeah. So I I remember one of our staff sergeants was like, Hey, if you guys find stuff, you keep it. Like, okay, you know, telling a bunch of PFCs and and Lance corporals that are about to go, you know, into combat, like, you know, hey, I'm gonna turn a blind eye if you know things go missing from other places, probably, you know, gave us gave us gave us a couple ideas, let's put it that way. Um, well, at one point I remember we were all everyone was eating chow, and uh there was another Marine and I, and we were walking by and we're like, there's a whole bunch of not watched rifles and flak jackets, and they have sappy plates in them. And me and this other marine decided to take them, so we took some of the flak jackets. Uh actually, I think we just took, I think I if I remember correctly, we just grabbed a few of the sappy plates out of them, and then we were leaving the base. And I don't know if you remember this, uh, but they basically like the army pulled up next to us, and they're like, yo, we're missing things. We're like, you didn't have you didn't have you didn't leave anyone guarding it, so we just took it. Um, we had to give a cut, we had to give some of it back, but we uh I think we I think we kept a few sappy plates that we had hidden.

SPEAKER_01

Um it was it was it was I don't remember that, but that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, yeah, yeah. We uh we uh we got there. We had like we literally had nothing.

SPEAKER_03

No, no, we didn't, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I don't remember how long we were at in Kuwait for, but I don't want to say, was it like two weeks, week and a half, or something like that?

SPEAKER_01

So we something like that. We left we left California February 16th. I truly cannot remember the timeline of how long we were broke down at each spot. We landed a few times.

SPEAKER_03

I think it was I think it's a total of four days. That that seems travel. Like I I found I found some I found some notes the other day and I was looking at it and piecing that together. I think it's four days of travel.

SPEAKER_01

And I was looking at a bunch of different pictures. That does seem correct. And then we crossed the line of departure with the first convoy on March 6th. So about two weeks.

SPEAKER_00

About okay, so yeah, so roughly about that. That's kind of what it felt like. Um and I and I I only remember, I think was it one night we were when we left Kuwait. We spent like a night off in the desert, right? Like we pulled off the road, kind of circled up the trucks.

SPEAKER_01

If I remember that was the day prior to crossing the line of departure, we went to this the it's yeah, there's now a giant camp there, but it is uh in the middle of nowhere, right before but maybe 10 miles from the border.

SPEAKER_00

Well, uh, the reason I bring that up was you know, we when she started talking about it, I think in one of the other

Arabic School And Identity Risks

SPEAKER_00

podcasts, uh I we went we all it was like pitch black um when we pulled off the trucks and we had like our little flashlights with the red with the red on them, so that you know uh and I woke up that I woke up that morning literally laying next to a dead snake. Oh and like I was I'm it's like the one thing I'm terrified of. I'm terrified of snakes. Um I remember being like, wow, this is gonna be a really shitty deployment. Like already got in trouble with stealing sappy plates. Now I'm waking up to a dead snake. Like, this is gonna be a long six months. Um and then I remember we, you know, we were we were on our way into to our our outpost, and I think it was pretty early. I don't know if we got there yet, but wasn't there like a an ATT convoy or like a container that was supposed to head to another base and they were stuck? And we were like passing them and kind of helped them out, and then somehow we got a we got phone booths like a week after we got there. You guys remember that?

SPEAKER_01

I remember the I do not remember us helping one on the way up, but that I mean that very well could have happened.

SPEAKER_00

We had several delays, so yeah, potentially if I remember correctly, there was like we we were out on a convoy. It was either on our way in or we were out on a convoy, and they and they were they were stuck. They weren't like pinned down or anything, they were just like like I think actually stuck, and we helped them out, and then some and then somehow or another that that phone box or phone booth ended up at yeah on our base.

SPEAKER_03

Nice, huh? Yeah, that's how early early on, man, there was uh everything was so fluid. I mean, there was so many weird, like everybody didn't know what was going on, and so I totally that doesn't sound familiar, but that doesn't mean that didn't happen. There was so much shit happening.

SPEAKER_00

I I remember our first couple days we did those like ride-alongs. Um and they were like, Oh, yeah, you know, it's been pretty quiet here, like nothing's been happening, and then it was like our first time out we were getting shot at, and like within the first week, like there was IDs going off. I was like, wait a minute, I thought this this wasn't like this was supposed to be like a calm area.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, 100%. Yeah, we I mean it I think the day after we did our last left seat, right seat, we went out on a night patrol and we got shot at. Yeah, it was very early on. I remember thinking the same thing. I was like, and we didn't even see where it came from. And I was like, uh okay, all right. Well, this is very different than what we were told.

SPEAKER_00

So okay, and I I I do remember that the information I think never kind of got to all of us that like on Tuesdays and Thursdays they have weddings, yeah, and those and those pop shots in the air weren't at us. Uh-huh. Like we'd be we would go out and we didn't. We, I guess, like again, I don't I'm I'm sure somebody knew, but the information never got all the way down, and we'd be out on a Tuesday or Thursday, and there'd be shot, you know, shots up in the air. We'd all be freaking out, like, where is that coming from? And they were literally just pop shots up in the air. Yep.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, my favorite one of those was when it was towards the end of the deployment, and Iraq was in somehow had a soccer team that was playing, like some either like local playoffs or not World Cup, but something like that, like a regional playoff. And they had scored goals and they started firing into the air, and we were out like on an op. Like, and it sounded like the whole city erupted. Yeah, that was fan. And no one told us until afterwards. They're like, Oh, yeah, they're they're playing a soccer game. It's like, what the fuck? Oh, okay, thanks.

SPEAKER_00

It's kind of it's actually kind of wild now. Um, you know, with you know, all this stuff happening around the world now, like you kind of see like I remember being there and thinking that every every area in Iraq was like where we were, right? It was you know in combat, uh, there was you know fighting happening, and that really wasn't the case. And you know, it was just kind of not knowing at the time, but now being you know a little bit older and being on the outside and realizing like seeing what's happening around the world in other countries, right? You're like, wait a minute, there maybe there wasn't a war like everywhere, you know, there were still things that went on and business that had you know was was taking place and ports that were open, and yeah, and you're just I you know being there and and being in our little you know, Ramadi, let's call it bubble, right? I didn't realize that you know there were parts of the country that were still you know potentially fully operating. Um, and you I I guess I didn't realize that until like almost recently when you look around, you're like, oh wow, there's still parts of these countries that are you know still going about their everyday life as if there's not a war happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That it and I at least for me, that was the way it was for a dozen years or so, right? I I was like, oh well, everybody did the same thing we did.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01

You start reading books and talking to people, it's like, oh, actually, no one, no one did what we did while while we were there.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, it's definitely it was definitely uh uh interesting deployment, and and we definitely did some some wild things. Um, and again, like I you know, listening to some of the the the other podcasts, you know, it brings back, you know, so many, so many memories. Um, you know, again, some some good, some bad, but those those first couple weeks were were definitely uh a culture shock, let's put it that way. I mean, I like I think you said it before, I I think it was within our first couple days we started getting shot at. Um and then I don't really remember how soon it was, to be honest with you, that like we got into our first real firefight. Um, I think it was pretty pretty close after we got there, but it could have been could have been a little bit of time.

SPEAKER_01

So, to my memory, actual shots exchanged uh uh but for any significant amount of time. I don't remember us really shooting until April. I I don't I yeah, and but I mean we got there March 6th, we were independent by March 10th, and so I mean April 6th would be the first days of big gun. I mean that's three weeks away. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think for me it was, yeah, now you're saying it was April 4th. Yeah, that was when that was when Morris got hit. Um there were there was there was a couple um, you know, again, not really exchange of fire, right? But I'll I'll never forget it. We had that that that gate guard where um we were up on that bridge. I don't remember the name of the bridge that we called it. We would have those those you know overnight overnight uh uh shifts. Yeah. And I think one of the first nights that we were out there, uh, it wasn't it wasn't I don't remember who I was with, but one of the transformers, like right in front of the the bridge, like blew up. And I remember coming over the radio and like um I was like, I said something like we saw we saw a boom. Whoever was like SOG was like, what do you mean you saw a boom? And I was like, I really don't know either. We think someone's shooting at us, and um and I and I want to say it was like Miranda that came like running up to the gate, and he's like, Where'd it come from? And I was like, that direction, and we looked over and there was like it was still kind of sparking,

Kuwait Shortages And First Shocks

SPEAKER_00

it was like just a transform, and he's like, You guys are idiots, like and the funny part about it was like it like went off and we like we radioed it in, said we saw boom, and then we kind of like ducked down. We're like, All right, we don't know what the fuck is what's happening. So we just kind of like ducked down and we he came up and he was like, Where does it come from? Like, right over there, and he's like, Did you guys look? And we're like, No, and he's like, It's a fucking transformer, and we're like, Oh, all right, well, I told you something blew up. Yeah, that was that was that was one of like our uh early on, early on uh uh experiences.

SPEAKER_03

Nice. That's that's hilarious. I had a I'm not gonna name names, but very early on, something similar happened. I was the driver at the time, and uh uh Gunny Cook was uh still the the VC at that time. And uh we had a Marine in the back of the high back that had an ND, but he was literally right behind me when his little booger hook was on the boom switch. And uh it it went off, and so it basically went off like right behind my head. And I like like kind of freaked out because I thought it was a like I thought it was like a grenade or something like that. I was like, something got thrown at us, and over the over the inner squad. Fortunately, I wasn't on the hook and I like was doing invasive stuff and uh the guy, the the marine that did it, like crouched down and like basically whispered in Buddy's ear. And he was he just put his hand on my arm and was like, it's fine, just keep driving.

SPEAKER_00

Well, listen, those those early weeks or days, days or weeks, like you know, listen, none of us had, I mean, obviously we have training, right? But you know, we you you you don't really know until you settle in. I I remember, you know, we had those like tarps over our hooches or whatever we want to call them. Yeah, and we were getting we were getting mortared. And the first couple nights, or again, I don't remember if it was nights or weeks, like, you know, we'd be like incoming, someone's screaming out, and like we'd all like you know, get under our get under our uh beds or like you know, put our gear on and and and try to like be super safe. And then I remember some point, like I don't know, it's a couple weeks in, like nobody moved. It was like it mortars were coming, and if we were watching like a movie, we'd be like, All right, let's just put our our our let's put our helmet on, maybe our flat like we'd be wearing a flat jacket watching a movie on like this tiny little six-inch screen. Nobody would move at all, or you'd be laying in your bed and someone call it out and be like, I'm not, I'm not getting up right now. And then you kind of become a little little numb to it. Um so those are the those are those are those are those memories that I'm like, you know, did we really do that? And I'm like, yeah. I I think there were times where like I was laying in bed and there's someone said like mortars, and I was like, ah, screw it. Like, if it's gonna come, it's gonna come. You just laid there.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and you started to learn real fast that you might be running towards it. You know, you don't know which way you're gonna go. So it's sitting still is probably the best thing you can do.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, just just playing your odds. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, I I don't know. I I have I don't have like a ton of ton of stories. I mean, I think some of it for me was like that deployment. Um, at this point in life, like it's kind of all mixed together. Like some of it, I don't remember if it happened like first or like what order it was in. Um, you know, uh and I'll tell you what, like I said in the beginning, like listening to some of these really, really brought back some, you know, some awesome, some awesome memories too. Like I said, I wish some of the outcomes were a little bit different, but some of the memories were were awesome. We had I remember back in you know on bass and in in the the hooch, like we had a lot of fun, you know, there were definitely a lot of fun things that we did and kind of made the best of it. And I look back and I say to myself, like, I just I wouldn't trade that. I definitely trade some of the outcomes, but wouldn't wouldn't trade that time in my life for for just about anything.

SPEAKER_01

Do you have any specific hooch life stories that you're uh thinking of? I was gonna say while you're on it, if you can think of any specific stuff, that'd be great.

SPEAKER_00

I think the one where we tied up Newmeier was probably probably one of one of my favorite ones. I think I think we even like duct taped him to the pole. We did, yes, yeah, yeah. Um, or you know, I I'll never I'll never forget Gunny Mararkey coming in. Um and we had so I don't remember who it was, but somehow or another we had toilets in ours, and we like set up the plumbing.

SPEAKER_01

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00

If you guys remember that.

SPEAKER_01

Uh that was that was Mosell.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I I yeah, was it Mosey that like all credit to Mosey?

SPEAKER_01

He he re he rebuilt the plumbing of our whole hooch with no one else knowing, and uh he fixed ours and the COC, and that was it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, uh Gunny was like, You're not allowed to take shits in there, like no one's allowed to shit in there, and we were like, Yeah, okay. We were like, All right, all right. And one day he came in and there was like three of us taking a shit, and he just fucking lost it. He like he like opened the curtains or whatever we had there and just like flipped out on us, and we're like we're sitting there, like, oh shit, what do we do? And he was just going nuts. Um, and I think we ended up filling or digging holes and filling sandbags for like days, which again ended up working in our in our favor because we had an awesome smoke pit. And I was like, All right, well, you know, I at the time I smoked, so I was like, All right, I guess I'm filling sandbags to build our own smoke pit, so it's not terrible.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yeah. It we reinforced the whole, yeah. You guys filled sandbags for days, uh for at least two days that I can remember because I have pictures of it. And you built that that little bus stop looking smoke pit that was out back, and you reinforced the whole back of the hooch, which probably ended up saving a few people's lives because we got hit two or three times.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Didn't we didn't we have one up front too? We don't happen to the one in the back, and then I think we we did the one like the one up front. I remember many nights just hanging out in there, uh uh, you know, smoking. I remember, you know, just telling stories, Matroca singing. Um, we had a lot, we had a lot of fun in those smoke pits.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Metroca and his guitar and making up all the songs was was good, man. It's uh he wasn't very talented, but he was damn funny.

SPEAKER_00

He was good. He was yeah, that was that was a good time. But yeah, those, you know, those times in there, like I said, wouldn't wouldn't trade those for anything.

SPEAKER_01

I don't remember you playing cards at all, but I do remember you having a radio and playing music. Do you remember any of that stuff?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so um before we left Kuwait, I went and uh bought like this this little radio CD player um at the PX there. And

Hooch Life Smoke Pits And Music

SPEAKER_00

I remember we didn't like we didn't realize um that we didn't have batteries, so we you know uh or we didn't have plugs, like we had to put you know, we'd plug it in, but I was like, all right, we're gonna take this thing, we need batteries. So it was like I don't know, it was like one of those CD players that needed like 10 double D batteries or D batteries, whatever it was. Yes, and so we finally got them, and uh I had never really listened to country music, like never. Like I'm from New Jersey, you know, we listen to beats. I pumped my fist at the jersey shore, you know, never ever listened to country music. And Calais slept right next to me, and he had a bunch of country CD. And then again, this is like before I this is before the iPods, you know. I think I think I got my first iPod iPod in Iraq. Like my family sent it to me, like loaded with music.

SPEAKER_01

Nice. Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but we went there, we had like you know, these books of CDs, and um, so we had music playing, and I remember one night um I couldn't fall asleep. I was like, Here, we'll listen to this. And it was like a I want to say it was like a John Michael Montgomery CD, like just real, real country. And I don't know if I fell asleep to it because I enjoyed it or it was like driving me so crazy, I just wanted to go to sleep, so I didn't have to listen to it anymore. I don't really know exactly what it was, but since then, you know, fast forward 20-something years, I still listen to a ton of country music. Um yeah, so I I definitely listened to a lot of a lot of music while we were there. I I had but and and I remember our lieutenant, he wouldn't let me bring the stereo in the car. He's like, it's silver, it's gonna like reflect off of things. So me and Grove spray painted it like camo. And uh we took it, we took it with us. Um, but yeah, I had a ton of ton of music. I love listening to music at that point, and then I, you know, like I said, that deployment got me into country music. I I haven't stopped listening. I've you know three of my four kids that can understand music at this point all love country music. Um, so definitely uh definitely a pivotal point in my uh musical uh listening career. Let's put it that way.

SPEAKER_01

That's hilarious. Yeah, I remember we bought three of those little boombox disc players at the Kuwait PX, and we bought a case of batteries. And I had one, I had a little blue one. I didn't spray paint mine, but uh I had a little blue one in our vehicle, and I don't know where the third one went. I know you had one. Uh yeah, you were in, I forgot you were in the lieutenant's truck. So it was you and Miranda and Morris initially initially.

SPEAKER_00

That was our that was our truck.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. Um and who drove who drove Miranda?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I no, I don't think. Yeah, maybe it was Miranda. Maybe Miranda did drive in the beginning.

SPEAKER_01

Or Newmeyer. Newmeier was a driver too. I don't I don't remember. I I don't remember. He would you guys weren't in section, so I don't remember.

SPEAKER_00

No, I don't I don't I don't think he was our driver. Um, I mean listen, after April, like that first week in April, I we we switched, you know, we obviously changed everything around.

SPEAKER_01

We we lost a truck and then everything got yeah, everything got switched around.

SPEAKER_00

Everything got switched around. I I I have more of like a memory, I would say, of like that truck than those those early on ones. That was I think we called ourselves the suicide squad at that point. Like we were in the back of a high back, and in the beginning we had like no armor, and then I think I want to say like Richie maybe like uh welded some pieces of metal to the the side of the truck.

SPEAKER_01

It was uh me and Monroe and Harden.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, there you go. Yeah, um you guys welded. I remember that happening, and then that was that was my truck for the remainder of the deployment that I was there. Nice. And that was me, Geezer was our gunner, yeah, Groves was our driver.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um Petroco was there, knife was there, Miranda was there.

SPEAKER_01

And then later uh in May, you got Lopez and Gonzalez.

SPEAKER_00

I don't know if they were in our truck though. Or they maybe Lopez was.

SPEAKER_01

They were dismounted the whole time.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Yeah, we had we had we had some again, same thing. We we had some fun on that on that dismount on that uh on that truck. We had some some wild, some wild experiences. I think I think uh Miranda told one where we we got into it with the army for a little bit. That was that was that was pretty wild when they the an Abram literally shot at us.

SPEAKER_01

Yep, yeah. Yeah, you want I'm I'm curious, but we'll pick your brain on a couple of these points. What do you remember of that particular night?

SPEAKER_00

Oh man, I remember we had some intel that there were you know uh insurgents putting IEDs on the side of the side of the road. So we took off. Um, I don't remember exactly what the what it was called, but it was like remember that arch? There was like a big arch. We were we run right underneath it. And I remember like our trucks kind of slowed down to like almost like a crawls, you know, pace, and a few of us hopped out of the back, and then the trucks kind of took off and dispersed a little bit as like a security, and we and we like laid on the side of the road looking and just kind of waiting, um, to see if we saw anybody. It was, I think it was me and Miranda and knife, the three of us.

SPEAKER_01

And I I I'm 90% sure Metroca was with you on that one too.

SPEAKER_00

Um he might have been. He might, yeah, he might have been. I I know I was right next to Miranda. I know him and I were like in the prone position next to each other. Um and then I I don't know, I don't remember how long we were there. It was it didn't feel like it was that long. Um, but I was in the prone

Friendly Fire And Broken Comms

SPEAKER_00

position facing one way, and then I think we saw it and then heard it, and it flew right over our head, and then I was laying on my back facing up. Um, and I was like, holy shit, what was that? And it we thought it was an RPG, you know, we thought an RPG, and mind you, that wasn't too far after you know Morris and I was in the truck when that you know RPG hit the truck. Yeah, so like I was almost positive it was an RPG again, and I just remember we kind of got back to the prone position and just started opening fire. Um, and then very quickly, I think realized when they started opening fire back at us. Um, I think they you know they shot a what was it, a heat round um at us that was supposed to be like 99.9% accurate, and it just flew right over our heads on like a big crater. I again I don't remember how far, maybe like 50 yards behind us, um, but it completely knocked us over. Um, and then again, we opened fire and then we kind of we they opened fire back at us, and at some point, I don't know if it was knife or Miranda was like friendly fire, friendly fire. And I had that big flashlight. And the point, the purpose of that flashlight that we had was like if we saw someone uh you know potentially putting in IDs or wanting to pull over cars, it was to basically like create like a checkpoint like for a car, like you know, if a car was a few years. Yeah, like a spotlight, yeah, yeah. Spotlight, yeah. So I remember I just started flashing it in the air, and that's how I think a few of us realized that like we were one, I think the rest of our platoon realized like we were pinned down. Um, and then that you know it was friendly, it was friendly fire. I think our I think our own gun even like started opening up in our direction, and more so I think it was they thought to protect us, but it was really almost like kind of at us. Yes. Um, I don't think anyone really knew what was happening at that point. Um, and then I just remember uh staff sergeant was like big boy was like he he he ripped some guy like out. Like we heard the we heard the Abram like starting up and like heading towards us.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then staff started just like rip some guy out of it. And I was like, holy shit, he might beat the hell out of him right here. Um and I remember Miranda and knife like being like just fucking super pissed. And I was just thinking to myself, like, I think my memory of that is more like, I was like, how the hell did that just happen? Like and and and I think I was more in shock that I was literally laying one way, like in the prone position, you know, facing one way. And then a couple seconds later, I was literally on my back, like facing the sky. And I was like, How did this thing just knock me over? You know, like like that. Um, but yeah, it was a it was a pretty it was a pretty wild time. And then honestly, I don't know the aftermath. I don't know if someone got in trouble, didn't get in trouble. It was kind of like not talked about anymore. Um and again, that that could have been for the better. Um, you know, I uh no one no one ended up getting hurt from my understanding.

SPEAKER_01

Um maybe it wasn't no one got significantly injured.

SPEAKER_00

That's uh that's actually I think I had a couple like cuts and bruises and whatever. Like, you know, I think maybe uh Moran and I were like bleeding a little bit, like just from being like kind of tossed around, but I don't I don't think it was anything like serious.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, somebody told me a story at one point, and I truly don't remember who it was, but somebody ended up going home early or something, and had met the uh either the driver or the gunner from that Abrams tank, not the vehicle commander, the vehicle commander no, I don't think anybody ever talked to, but they had said that it was a big issue for them, like mentally, that they almost like opened up on US troops and and uh and then it was a big deal, but there was no actual fallout. And I again I don't know how true that story was, but I know that was what I was told later.

SPEAKER_00

So listen, if it if it made it so that I I remember at that point there wasn't a lot of communication around with the you know the Marines and the RV operating in very close AOs. And I and I think after that there was a lot more calm around like, hey, where we were patrolling or what we were doing. Um so if it you know no one got hurt, if it if it helped out and prevented something else, you know, well, hopefully that was the the case.

SPEAKER_01

I mean the tanks weren't supposed to be there and they didn't know we were there, but there was no way for us to talk to them either. We didn't have their calm frequencies, they didn't have ours. We had no we had no inner service communication whatsoever, uh for multiple different units, right? Couldn't talk to the air overhead when they were overhead, couldn't talk to the army when they were across the river, couldn't talk and nothing, couldn't even talk to the checkpoints when you're pulling up to them.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, it was we definitely we I mean, listen, we I think about it now. If we think about just how how far like technology communication has come, like yeah, can you imagine we had some of the the technology now? Like, I can't even go anywhere without using Waze, you know, and that and that blue force tracker, you guys have like maps out, and you had this blue force track this huge piece of equipment in the in the truck, and I think only like a few trucks had it. Only one of them that I was like, only the CR.

SPEAKER_01

And he got it halfway through the deployment.

SPEAKER_00

We didn't even start with that, yeah. It was like, you know, how the hell did we even like navigate and get around? I remember like before going out on patrols or missions or ops, um, you know, you know, a couple of you guys, a couple of you guys were like literally planning out the routes like for like you know, 30 or 40 minutes. Yeah, and I and if if I'm not mistaken, it was like multiple routes, like, hey, we're gonna go this way, and then like tomorrow we're gonna use this route, and tomorrow and the next day we're gonna use this route. And we would always just go like different ways to to get through, you know, obviously to hopefully prevent them from knowing you know our our our routes, but I I think about that all the time now. I'm like, God, how do we even like navigate and get around? I I need ways to go everywhere now, you know. Yeah, it's like uh it's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_03

Um, if you like what you've heard, this is a multi part episode. Make sure you listen to the rest of the

Final Thoughts And Next Part

SPEAKER_03

story.