The Cost Measured in Minutes - Joshua Kohen (part 2 of 2)

Part 2 with Josh Kohen starts as an RPG hit his position near a mosque in Ramadi, including the small choices and split-second timing that changed who lived and who died. He continues with what followed, from chaotic QRF fights and mass-casualty scenes. We wrap up with the strange everyday routines that kept us going, and how those memories shape life 20 years later. 

• the last discussion with Morris
• a night checkpoint that turns catastrophic 
• grabbing a rifle and fighting back wounded 
• April 6th and 7th blur of QRF, RPGs, and house-to-house movement 
• what heroic looks like from the inside 
• mail runs, bad chow, MRE life, caffeine tricks, and tobacco stories 
• Israeli-up-armored Humvees and field-expedient decisions 
• VBIED aftermath, triage reality, and running into a high school friend 
• broken jaw medevac, coming home early, and guilt 
• why perspective after combat can fuel success in civilian life 

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Transcript

Welcome And Setting The Scene

SPEAKER_00 0:11

But yeah, you know, um I'll talk a little bit about the night that that Morris got hit. Um please do.

SPEAKER_03 0:17

I would love to hear your perspective, especially since you were also pretty seriously wounded that night, too.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Yeah, I mean, luckily none of my injuries were, you know, life-threatening or anything like that. Um, you know, it took me a lot of years uh to really kind of play back some of those, some of those nights. I think after I got out of the Marine Corps, you know, when you kind of start realizing like the severity of some of the things that you you did or went through, and you're like, oh wow, like that actually happened. Um yeah, and I think for a long time I also was like really upset. So Morris and I were close, um, you know, just like you know, I think anyone in your platoon, but we actually had like an argument the night before, and I struggled with that for a long time. And I mean it was over like something stupid, it was it was over firewatch. Um, I think like two nights before, I want to say someone else was like late

The Last Argument With Morris

SPEAKER_00 1:10

to fire watch or like didn't get up. So like I stayed on like an extra half hour, and then like the next day Morris was on, he went to go wake me up, and I was like, no, screw it. I stayed an extra half hour, like you're on now. You know, you stay on, and then we kind of got into like a little argument about it. Nothing, I don't think anything more than what you know any uh you know platoon full Marines living in a hooch for a few months would would argue over, right? Um stupid stuff. Um, but I remember I remember like that was probably one of the last like serious conversations I had with Morris. And I always think like that was that was hard for a long time just to think to think about that, like oh shit, that was like my final memory with him. Um but yeah, that night we went out. I I don't really remember exactly what we were there was a reason we were going out there to do like a nighttime vehicle checkpoint. There was definitely a reason. It was around St. Dom's Mosque. Um earlier in the evening, uh I'll never forget it. Uh Matroca and I were out there and we pulled over a car, we asked the car to stop, and it had they had like a we popped his trunk and there was like a bunny, like there was like a stuff they had stuffed animals, they write in a sold stuffed animals, but it was like one of those ones where like you pressed it, it made the sound. Um, so he had like he had like a box or something in the back in his trunk with like a bunch of them in there, and we picked it up and we were like looking through it, and we're like, oh shit. And then like we kind of like unzipped it, and there was like a battery attached to it, like a nine-volt battery, and we were looking at each other like, holy shit, is this a fucking is this an IED or something or a VB ID and like kind of bugged out, and then the the driver was like, No, no, no, no, no, you know, like he was trying to basically tell us like he sells like stuffed animals or whatever. So they eventually eventually like like left and we were fine.

SPEAKER_03 3:01

Um poor guy's life flashed before his eyes.

SPEAKER_00 3:04

Well, mine and Matokas did too. We were two we had this like I don't remember if it was like pink or white, but like this stuffed animal and this like nine-volt battery, and it were like, oh shit, like you know, I'm like holding it in my hand. Um, and then I remember like the trucks are pretty spread out. Uh, we were doing this like again, checkpoint. Um, it was right around Saddam's mosque. And there we had so many kids, and I think at one point we were like taking the candy or whatever we had, and we were like throwing it away so that the kids would like

Checkpoint Night Near The Mosque

SPEAKER_00 3:35

go fetch it, but we wouldn't want them to come back, like they would literally, you know, and um, and then I think like someone was like showing them some videos, and there was just like a there was a ton of them, and then out of nowhere they just like dispersed. It was like oh shit, there's like no one around, and it got quiet. Um and I'm I I don't remember exactly what you know Morris said, like, hey, uh you know, I need a break or to go to the bathroom, or there was a reason that him and I switched spots. So I was standing basically right where he was standing about a minute before the RPG came. Maybe two, maybe two minutes. And I again I don't remember what it was if he said he had to, you know, go use the head or something like that. And I and I'll never forget it. Like, I was I think I had like I think I was like, hang on, let me just like I wanted to like smoke a cigarette. So I was like off by the side, like smoke a cigarette. I can't like, oh let me go finish my sorrow, let me go finish the cigarette. And I went and you know, finished it and came back over by the truck, and I was standing there, and he was coming out, and then he came out and I I handed him my rifle. Um and he handed me his pistol. Um, and then I went up in the I went up in the gun. Uh I went up in yeah, it went up in the turret. And I again it mean now I think it was probably only a few minutes. Like literally, I don't think it was very long. I I don't even think I was able to like get like my sights checked on the on the toe. Like I don't even think I looked in it yet. Um and the RPG came and you know, obviously he took the the the brunt of it. I think probably it would have been I I would have been a lot worse if you know if he hadn't. Um essentially, I guess like he saved us. Um and I was in the you know, similar to the the the Abram, like I was in the turret one second, and then the next second I was I wasn't completely like thrown out of the truck. I was kind of thrown into the back. Um and I remember literally just you know hearing, you know, hearing the noise, feeling the blast, and I remember it happening so fast. Then I started hearing the crackling of the of the you know a fire or or of uh AK fire. And I remember literally taking my hands and like touching my legs, like patting my legs and then like patting my arms, and I'm like, okay. And at this point, like we had seen a bunch of people get, you know, pretty, pretty hurt, pretty mangled in some place, you know. Um, I remember like, okay, I have my legs, I have my arms, you know, and like I like kind of like came back too, like, you know, I was a little dazed, and I remember kind of crawling out of the back, the side door behind the driver, like the driver's side uh back door, and just crouching down kind of behind a tire, um, because the the truck was just getting lit up, and I didn't, I didn't, I didn't have a weapon.

SPEAKER_04 6:36

I had a pistol.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Um and I remember kind of coming back over and Miranda, I think Miranda had just came up and I looked at him and I looked at Morris and I was just I remember just saying, like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. And I had to take my rifle from him. Um, because he had it, he had it, he was, it was like slung around him, and and it was, you know, I had to take it off of him um to get it because Miranda at that point was like we the doc came running over, and at that point, I think I want to say both Miranda and I were like, we weren't in the pro and I think we were like on a knee, you know, like right in front of them, just uh shooting. Um, and then we had you know, we kind of ran out into the street a little bit. We saw like a white pickup truck like pull out, and him and I were just trying to light it up. I don't think we ever confirmed if we hit the guy. The the car kept going, but at one point we did see some like blood splattered. So we're like, we thought, I think we thought we hit one of them or both of them, or the truck kept going though. And then and then after that, I

Switching Spots Right Before The RPG

SPEAKER_00 7:40

like you know, I I kind of looked around, my my leg was all my leg was bleeding. Actually, a piece of shrapnel, I have scarred a piece of shrapnel, it was like I want to say like a centimeter from my eye. Like I have a little scar next to my eye. Um but I didn't have any like real serious injuries. I remember like the adrenaline too was like I didn't feel anything. Um and then I remember we went back to I I forgot which base it was. Um and yeah, and they like they I think they pulled out some shrapnel. Um I had I had a piece still left in my my leg for a long time. Um and actually there's like this new thing with the VA now that they try to go and like I I think they're like trying to identify veterans that still have shrapnel in them, and like uh but yeah, so they called they called me like a year or two ago and they were like, Hey, would you be willing to like come and have it be checked to see if it's still in there? And I'm like, you know, a doctor told me many years ago, like if it's still in there, like don't move it because you don't know what it's next to. So I was like, I think I'm gonna I think I'm gonna pass on this one. Um but yeah, that was kind of what I remember. I remember getting patched up, and then I remember going back to um our base and our hooch, and we were all kind of just waiting to hear about Morris. Um from my recollection, he he kind of he made it through to the air vac. I mean, to yeah, and then I think I think he made it even to like when they landed. Um and then if I'm not mistaken, he he died in surgery. Um, I don't know exactly where. Um, but yeah, that was a that was a tough night. It was a it was a it was a tough night. Um, it was obviously a huge hit for our platoon, for his family. Um, and it was just it was just hard to get hit like that, you know. Um but yeah, that's kind of that's kind of my memory of it. And then I think like the next day, if I'm not mistaken, again, it was like the next day or maybe a day and a half later, like all hell kind of broke loose for all of us. And uh I remember Staff Sergeant told me I wasn't allowed to go out on patrol because I was technically like still bedridden or whatever they were, you know. And I kind of hopped in the truck anyway. And I remember Staff Sergeant being out there being like, I fucking told you not to come out. And I'm like, what do you want me to do? Like, my whole platoon is leaving, like um, you know, like we just got hit. Now we're going back out. There's a bunch of other Marines pinned down, like I'm fine. Um, you know, the injuries were more like flesh wounds. Um, they were you know they weren't they weren't severe. Um yeah, and then it like popped off for like two more days.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Yeah. Yeah. The very next morning, uh, we took, I don't remember who. We took someone out because they wanted to see the site of the ambush, which was wonderful. Everybody's blood was fucking boiling when we had to go out there, and we we went out there. They took pictures, yeah. They they took some pictures, and we were there for a little bit. The C our company CO was with us, Captain Weiler, and then it wasn't long, like it was a very short op, whatever it was. And then we went back to Hurricane Point, and we were still on night taskable or whatever, night QRF, or whatever we were on. And so we went everybody went back to sleep, and then the next day was the was April 6th.

SPEAKER_00 11:10

And yeah, and it if I'm not if I'm not mistaken again, like I think it was like map three that was on day QRF, and they already went out and they got into some shit, and then we were on night QRF, and we were like, fuck this, you gotta send us, and we

Fighting Back While Wounded

SPEAKER_00 11:25

were all like ready in our trucks, ready to go, and they were like waiting and waiting and waiting, and then finally at some point they like let us go. Um and uh I again some of the some of the little battles or some of the battles get a little you know blurry, but there was one where we we pulled down a street and we dismounted. And I I don't remember if the RPG came and it was when it was when I think you and Mosey shot uh I don't remember it was it, the toe or whatever. You guys shot something at a mosque. They were they were they were basically popping out behind the wall of a mosque and just hitting shooting us with RPGs and and you know gunfire. And you guys, I think it was a toe, um uh or or an AT4. I'm not really I don't I don't really remember.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Um it was a toe.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

Yeah, there you go. And uh and we were and I remember we were like we were bouncing from house to house, and it was me and uh it was me and big boy, and we got the the was like we were running behind like a truck that was parked in the side, an RPG came and like knocked us over, and I'll never forget it. He like lifted me up by my flag track with like one hand, like I like I like tripped from the blast and he like lifted me up like by my flag track. He's like, get up, Cohen! And I was like, All right, and like he like lifted me up and I was running with him. Um and uh and uh yeah, and then and then like shortly after that, uh Bill was uh Bill was at the still at the truck and I and an RPG came. I don't know if it went like right under um the truck or it hit us like right in the grill, but like it didn't explode. Yeah, it just was like stuck there, and we were looking at it, we're like, Holy shit, are you kidding me? Like and I don't know again, I don't know if it was like slid right under the truck or if it was in the grill, I really don't remember, but I just remember us sitting there and like holy shit, we just got really lucky, like that thing hit dead on.

SPEAKER_03 13:23

Yeah, yeah, all that stuff was April 7th because we didn't even have tow missiles on April 6th. But uh I don't know how many RPGs they fired on the 7th, but I mean 20, 30, 40, I mean, just so many. It was constant, constant. It felt like every few minutes there was a new one coming down, and some blew up and some didn't.

SPEAKER_00 13:46

And and you know, there was definitely a few that blew on us. There was definitely a few that that blew on us. So was the sixth when we went down by the river when the I think it was golf company was pinned down.

SPEAKER_03 13:58

It was I remember Echo Company and the uh one of the sniper teams, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

That's right, that's right. Echo company, yeah. They they were they were pinned down there, and that's that's where we were. And I remember at that point, I think we were even like doing some like plunging fire, like we were like going into all those like huts. I remember you know kicking down or or running into some of those like door doors and trying to find like where they where they might be. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:24

Well, specifically by that point, so once we had finally put it, was we were engaged for hours prior to that because we couldn't get to them. We were we were separated by I mean literally the enemy was a wall of enemy between us and them, and we had taken the pressure off of them. The enemy was focusing more on us, I guess. I don't I don't know. Maybe they've I from the stories it sounds like they were still engaged, but we had a brunt a large force after us. But it was I'm gonna mess up his name. I believe it's Woodall or Woodwall or or Woodward, Wood, I think it's Woodall, was lost. He would they were calling over the radio that he was was missing an action, potentially taken by the enemy. And that's that's when we got there, it was a frenzy of people kicking down doors. And we found guys everywhere. There were two what there were you know that most of them were in pairs with the exception of him. He was by himself.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

Yeah, I remember that. And at one point we had like all of our gun trucks lined up. Yeah. On the road, and we were like literally just firing at anything that that that moved that wasn't us.

unknown 15:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 15:38

And you know, we were I I guess, yeah, I don't remember if we were looking for for him or just just uh it was definitely a crazy time. But yeah, I get I get those days, those two days a little confused. I mean, those kind of battles all just blur together at this point. Um but yeah, that was uh that was uh that was a

The Next Days When It Popped Off

SPEAKER_00 15:55

wild, a wild couple days.

SPEAKER_03 15:58

Just a weird question because I've I've kind of been asking everybody something similar to this, but I'm gonna ask you a different version of it. Uh you remember any specific stories of anything you saw anybody do that seemed a little over the top, a little extra, like maybe heroic or impressive or anything like that I mean, yeah, I I would think so.

SPEAKER_00 16:21

I mean, listen, there's probably a many. I I'd have to think about like there are definitely some, like again, like thinking about big boy, like when that RPG came past the truck and like blew up, like he literally, like I fell, and he literally just like you know, grat like picked me up one arm, and and it wasn't even just the RPG, like that RPG came and then it was you know rapid fire right after, you know what I mean? Like it wasn't just the the RPG. Um, and he I'm not even kidding you, it's like some crazy like Superman strength that came out of him where I was like on the ground, and just one arm just lifted me up and was like, let's go, Cohen, you know, like kind of yelling. Um but and I and I'm sure I'm sure that I'm sure if I had a little bit of time to think think through that a little bit, I could probably come up with a a bunch.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I did kind of put you on the spot, but I was just curious, but just in general, but you know what?

SPEAKER_00 17:17

Thinking back now, right, and putting myself in like the life I have now, and thinking about like even just some of the the planning that you guys did, like I was never really privy or part of that, like thinking back to like our our leaders, right? Our our NCOs brought us all home through some some crazy shit. Um, just even like you know, and I know we were we were uh a weapons company and in trucks and we had heavy guns and stuff like that, but we were basically like driving targets, right? Like we were, you know, we weren't sitting targets, but our our trucks at certain points definitely were. Um so just thinking through that now, like how you guys navigated us through that six months, you know, um, is super impressive, right? And like, and definitely above and beyond, right? Like, even if I think about it now, like I said, I can't go anywhere without Waze. You know, thinking about navigating that and the calm and the you know that the things that had to happen so that we all came back, or you know, most of us came back safely, is like it's that's super impressive, um, you know, in in itself. But yeah, and I think I think if I had a little more more time to think through that, I could probably think of some some more uh and and and honestly, as I listen to more podcasts, like more memories come, you know, come back. There are definitely certain things that like you know, I forgot happened, and then you think through and you're like, oh wow, yeah, I remember that. Like uh, I don't know, I think it might have been Miranda told a story about when we did that bug hunt. It might have been it might have been Miranda or Gro. It was somebody, somebody told it. And uh it was actually it was actually my 21st birthday that day. Nice so that that that story they were telling when they were up on the roof and the guy like blew through like our Constantino wire. Yeah, uh, I was on the saw, I wasn't on the 240, it was a saw, so they carried that for a while, and I was like dying to light him up. Like die, I was like, I remember being, I think it was Machok, I was like, Corporal, can I shoot? Like, I was like, Sue, like I just wanted to light up that car, and uh he was like, No, no, no. And it ended up being that the guy just had like glaucoma, right? Um, yeah, but if you if you kind of fast forward through that, and again, I I won't use their their names, but there were two marines that through that day had some uh some I I don't know if they were enemy or civilians, they were walking back and they had a couple tall tall boy Heinegans. Um, and we confiscated those. So they were voluntole to give them give them up. Um I'm seeing a pattern here, Cohen, just uh well I didn't know about this one, I didn't know about this one. I remember you know, that certain marine coming up on the roof, and he was like, uh, Cohen, go get some water. I'm like, no, I'm good. He's like, I wasn't really asking you. And I was like, all right, and I like opened the cooler and there was like three or four tall boy Heinegans in there. Um, and I was like, no way. And then we went back to the the you know, our our smoke pit, and I remember just getting like really, really, really buzzed off of like three-quarters of a beer. Yeah, and I mean listen,

Under Heavy RPG Fire By The Mosque

SPEAKER_00 20:40

it'd been months, we were dehydrated, but you know, we haven't drank in months and dehydrated as can be. Um, and I look at that now, like some people have their 21st birthday story, like out of a bar, they black out and whatever. And I'm like, Well, my 21st birthday, I was up on a rooftop behind a squad automatic weapon, almost shot a guy that was blind, and then drank, I think we drank like two beers, you know, each. Um, and just you know, had a great uh a great time. Um, so yeah, there was like I said, like those I didn't even really, I don't think I ever fully remembered the story until and I think it was Miranda that talked about that day. And I was like, oh shit, that was my birthday. That's when that happened. Um, yeah. It was June, it was June 1st. So uh what is that now? Like 20, 20 something years ago, uh I don't know, a couple days ago. Um but yeah, it was uh it was it was it's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Well, let's see, I'll give you a cut, I'll give you a couple more and see if anything jogs your memory. Uh yeah, yeah, but well, actually, here's the easier way. Do you remember any of our like sort of long distance missions? Anything that stands out? Because we ran all over the place. We had a mission where we ran about I don't know, 10, 15, 20 clicks north of the city to go uh rescue an Army unit where their Humvee had been blown up. We went out to Ticatum Air Base a bunch.

SPEAKER_00 22:05

Yeah, I remember going out to the airbase. I think we did a couple mail runs, right? That was what we like the mail runs we did.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

Oh, that's right. So the mail trucks got blown up a couple times, and then we started doing individual mail runs because otherwise our guys weren't gonna get their mail. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:18

Yeah. And all and all of us wanted like all of us wanted like the the uh I remember New Meyer get getting like uh deer jerky and shit like that. We're like, dude, we got we'll go get that shit. We like you know like I'll let that shit get blown up. Like we really wanted our protein bars and uh you know our our our magazines and shit like that. So yes, I do remember I do remember a few of those.

SPEAKER_03 22:42

We lived, we lived out of our I don't know about you, but most of us lived out of our mail because the fucking chow was awful. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

I'll never forget on July 4th weekend, which is also the weekend that I got uh I broke my jaw. They had they brought like steaks. I don't even know what kind of steak it was, honestly. It was and it was so like raw that I I even want to say it was like me and Newmeyer and Groves, like we were cooking it outside the chow hall with a lighter, like we literally had a lighter and like cooking, like cooking them because it was just like disgusting what they it was like oh here, and remember we walked up, we're like, Yeah, I'll just take one, and we were out there just cooking it. Um, yes, I do remember living out of our our mail, you know, living on protein bars, and um protein bars is a big one. Um I think at at one point I just gave up and started eating MREs. Like, I would think I was trying my hardest to like to not eat MREs, and then I just had to like give in and do it. Um and you know, and the the was it chili mac and cheese or something like that. I know it was so good, but it was like so dangerous dangerous for you.

SPEAKER_01 23:58

Um the spaghetti with some uh jalapeno cheese in it. That was some uh exactly quality shit.

SPEAKER_03 24:04

Everybody had their everybody had their choice main meal, and everybody avoided the four fingers of death. And so I always I would take it, I would eat those nasty ass fucking sausages.

SPEAKER_00 24:14

Yeah, oh god, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

That's the weird word like immediately.

SPEAKER_00 24:19

Yeah, one of the things I loved about the MREs was like that instant coffee, and we would make it in like the water, like the one-liter water bottles, like that and it was kind of funny because like prior to that, I don't think I ever drank like iced coffee or cold coffee ever. And then like there, I you know, we would we would literally put it into those like liter water bottles, you'd you'd like collect a few of them, and you would take that out because sometimes we'd go out of the wire and it'd be like we'd be out there for hours, yep, you know. Um, and and you might have been on very little sleep, you know, so you would just be drinking that thing like it was a bottle of water. Um, and you know, fast forward, I love iced coffee. So it might have come from that.

SPEAKER_01 25:00

My little trick that I would do is uh I would get the cocoa packet and I would put two of the insta coffees in it, a cream and a sugar in there, and then put a little bit of water and mix it together, and it was like this fucking amazing like icing pudding thing. I was like high class living, man.

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, definitely high class living, I'll tell you that much.

SPEAKER_03 25:20

I don't I don't remember who it was in map three, but somebody's mom or grandma or something had sent them coffee beans, but no grinder or anything else. And so I would trade some of my jerky or whatever the fuck I had for coffee beans, and when we'd go out on ops, I'd be chewing a coffee bean like a dip just to get the caffeine out of it. Oh god, I loved it. I still will do that to this day. I'll get if I can get a coffee bean and throw it in my lip, I love it.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

You guys remember when we wrote Philip Morris? Like the tobacco company. So that was that was I don't remember who it was. It

Searching Hard And Losing Someone

SPEAKER_00 25:55

was it was one of our ideas, and we all like kind of put a letter together and wrote them. And it was like within a couple weeks, we got boxes and boxes of sample. It was like the sample sizes of dip, like skull, like it was like two pinches in a in a in a thin. Yeah, yeah. And then the small cigarette, the small cigarette boxes that four packs, they had only four cigarettes in it, yeah. Yeah, we got they like they were like there, I think they wrote us back being like we can't send you, like legally can't send you like full sizes, but we sent you a bunch of samples, and it was like it was like a few boxes worth of like dip and cigarettes. Um I I mean listen, I I think back now, and like there were definitely times we were out on patrol. I'd have a dip in my mouth, and at one point it'd be, you know, some be like, all right, you can smoke. I'd be like, Well, I just put a dip in, I'm not gonna waste this. You know, yeah, smoke a cigarette with a dip in your mouth. Yeah, it was uh like I said, we did some we did some wild things. Um but yeah, I definitely remember some of those, some of those longer patrols or longer missions. That the the mail truck one is definitely, and I think we went to what is it El I Sad Air Air Base?

SPEAKER_03 27:06

Is that we went to Al-Assad once or twice, at least for us. We went to Al-Assad to pick up equipment one time, and we went to Camp Fallujah to pick up uh Humvees.

SPEAKER_00 27:18

Well, that was the one that was that was the one the Humvees we picked up was when they like dropped them in the middle of the desert. Yeah, you guys remember and they were and they were they were uh everything was in uh in Hebrew because basically GM was selling the Humvees to Israel, and Israel was up armoring them because they had more of this like combat urban environment experience.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00 27:41

So and we didn't have anything. So when those Humvees, those up armored Humvees came, they were they were being they were all from Israel, they were dropping them in like the middle of the desert. I remember we were sitting there and like they were just falling out of the sky, yeah. And and then we we popped them open. I'm like, wait, this alternator's got Hebrew writing on it.

SPEAKER_03 28:01

Like that was the thing, we had to take grinders, and we were grinding the the star of David and the Hebrew off of the door panels and shit. Because I was like, We open our doors, they're gonna fucking kill us.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Yeah, that was yeah, I've seen I forgot about that one, but that yeah, I do remember that now. Um yeah, that was that was that was interesting. I mean, listen, just thinking about Humvees falling out of the sky in the middle of the desert is is also kind of interesting in itself, yeah. Um yeah, I I I definitely I actually had a um uh a weird experience, I don't know what I call it weird, but funny experience. So I think it was I don't know, we had EOD up on like some hill. We we got hit pretty hard. Uh not our not our platoon. Uh I think EOD did, and we were medevacing them. And then on our way to one of the outposts, you know, a VBID went off right in front of I think it was Echo Company.

SPEAKER_03 28:56

Okay. Yeah, that was the day the engineers got hit by an IED on the on the dam. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:02

Uh-huh. Yep, yep. So we were up there, and I again I was I was with Groves a lot. Um, and him and I were like running with this guy on a stretcher, and we got him in to the you know, one of the the medical vehicles that went back. Yeah, and then um we were kind of by ourselves. We had our truck with us, we were kind of by ourselves.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

Um well you guys got ditched because uh it was me, the medical vehicles you're describing were me and your vehicle, Harden. And I think I think Harden is the one that drove it. We just threw everybody in the high back and drove like hell.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yeah, and then and then so well Bill and I still had the the the high back. We had a vehicle, okay. And then we heard the we heard the VB VB ID go off.

SPEAKER_03 29:46

Um yeah, we were up on the Overwatch position.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, and we were like, we gotta fucking go. Like we got like we knew something bad happened. And I remember him and I pulled up. We were like, it was me, him, and doc. We were like the first ones to get there. And I remember one of us came over the radio and we're like, there's just and

Everyday Survival Mail MREs And Caffeine

SPEAKER_00 30:05

I don't I don't want to describe it for everyone else, but there was there was it was people were mangled, it was bad. And we started, you know, putting people into our we started getting like people that could still like walk or you know, that were still conscious, like into our truck. And I remember him and I having like make decisions, like we were we were basically by ourselves, and you guys were in another truck. We like we didn't have anyone with us, and we're like, fuck it, we gotta get these guys Medevact. And we brought them, I think it was where Echo Company, I forgot the name of that base, but combat outpost, yeah. Combat outpost, yeah. So we got them there, and we were sitting there, and they were just it was just like truck after truck coming in with with Medavax, and everyone was kind of running like crazy. At some point, there was like nothing more we could do, right? Um, and I remember sitting there and we were just like they had this little area that was like kind of secure, so we had the truck parked like up against it, and we were like maybe leaning against like the tire, just like kind of just trying to process everything that just happened. And all of a sudden I look up and I'm like, wait, what? And it was my buddy from high school, he was walking right past me, and uh he was a combat replacement from 3-5. Part of the reason I joined the Marine Corps was because of him. Um, and uh, and part of the reason he came to 2-4, uh, which I didn't know. Like, apparently he had wrote me a letter, but I don't think we had got it. And he he was he was in with 3-5, he was deployed, he came home, and then 2-4 needed combat replacements, and he was like, Fuck it, my boy Josh is there, I'm gonna go. Um, and I ran into him. I had no idea. I didn't know he was part of 2-4. I didn't know he came back as a combat replacement. Small world. And I looked up and I'm like, Dimmick, and he's like, and then and I remember he was like getting ready to go out on patrol. So we had like two minutes. We like gave each other a hug, like talked for like a minute, and then he went out on patrol. And I didn't really see him again till the end of deployment, till that you guys came back. Yeah, um, and I was like, holy shit, dude. And I remember getting home and like because I got home, I think it was probably like what when did you guys officially leave there? Was it like early September?

SPEAKER_03 32:15

Yeah, September 12th was the that was the last day of our last day, yeah. Last day of operations. We left from Al Assad September 14th, 16th, somewhere around there.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

Yeah, so I got home like mid, I got back to Camp Pendleton like mid to late July. Um, so it was a few weeks before you guys, and I remember just you know reaching out to his family and being like, hey, I saw him. Like, I don't I don't know anything more than that, but I saw him, you know, for like a good five minutes. Um, and it was actually kind of funny. Um recently, I mean, he he's a a cop locally. Um, and uh recently him and I just like caught back up again. And I said to him, like, you know, I'm like, do you remember that day? He was like, Yeah, dude. He was like, we were getting ready to go out on patrol, and all of a sudden I hear, you know, someone used my first and last name, and I was and he's like, I turned around, it was you. I was like, Yeah, I couldn't fucking believe what I was like at one point. I had to like I had to be like, wait a minute, am I seeing things? Like, is this really him? You know, like is my mind playing tricks on me right now? Um but it was him, yeah. So I ran into that, and that was that day. Um that day was that day was bad. Those, I mean, those guys got pretty messed up.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

Yeah, that uh I mean, well, again, that was I think if I remember correctly, that was the second most KIA that had happened to a US unit ever, which the first most was also Echo Company, unfortunately, uh during April 6th, during the ambush.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

And um yeah, do you remember when that was when when those engineers got like again, like I May 29th. Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yeah, the morning started with the engineers having to sweep the dam uh for IEDs, and uh they were doing it with metal detectors, and we were providing like right on them, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:11

And we were like right behind them.

SPEAKER_03 34:13

Yep, one of them was standing there. You guys ran them down, so that was the technical challenge of it was that the there were some vehicles down on the road, which was my section, and your well, no, you were part of my section. I don't know why you were up there. Uh maybe just providing security.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

But we might have ran up, we might have ran up there after you might have because Lopez ran up there too. So, yeah, so I think we took like a stretcher and ran up there. I don't know if we were there, you know, the whole time. Um, I remember you know bringing a stretcher down with with somebody on it. I don't remember if it was like we started up there or we ran up there with it and ran back.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

Which by the way, definitely kudos to you then. If you ran straight up that damn dirt hill, because that thing was I mean, straight up, straight up. You I mean it's like yeah, like climbing a ladder of just dirt, and it was 30 feet high or whatever it was. So, but that was the uh again. I I'm always interested in the awards process. Someone just brought it up to me, and uh in any other day, right? Those two guys got blown up by an IED. You, Groves, Lopez, Miranda, Doc, at least, those are the people I know for sure, with no regard to their own safety, no worry about secondary explosives or contacts, just ran straight up, threw them on stretchers, brought them down to the street where we could evak them, and evac all those casualties. We reconvened with the XO up on the Overwatch position that was by the cemetery,

Humvees From The Sky And Hard Calls

SPEAKER_03 35:45

which is what you remember. Yeah, uh, and then that was when the V bid uh blew up on the Echo Company on the Echo Company patrol.

SPEAKER_00 35:54

I think I think you know what now that I'm like coming back. I think Groves and I were following your truck back. Like we had, I think you guys had casualties in your truck, and we were like right behind you when the VBID went off. And then you guys kept like you kept going maybe into the combat outpost and we pulled over.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Um no, I mean maybe. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what happened, but uh I know we were all first on scene because I was there for that V bid as well. Uh I think I pushed all the way to the far west end, and you guys were on the east end, if I remember correctly, but I it was chaos, so I my memory may not be clear.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

I remember taking out that like combat medic like attacker the emergency, yeah, the emergency there's nothing in here that can help us right now. Like this this is just way, like this is way too much. You know, like it wasn't like we weren't trying to stop bleeding, like this was like we were trying to find body parts. Yes, yeah. Um, and it I I remember that being like uh we're looking for like someone's arm. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:58

Um yeah, that was a hell of a day.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

I know you know it it's funny you you say that earlier, like you know, if we if we look back now, you think about the war, but like looking back now, like I don't ever think that that even crossed any of our minds. Like, are we in danger? You know, I think you just did it, right? Like and maybe we were like younger, young and you know, you know, even in not in like combat situations, right? You're young and stupid, you do kind of crazy things that you know, fast forward 20-something years you probably wouldn't do today. Um, you know, there's probably a bunch of trees I wouldn't have jumped off of, I wouldn't jump off of at 43 when I or versus when I was 18, you know. Um I think it's kind of the kind of the same in in that point in life, right? Like, I don't even think we did anything that we thought was like that great, right? We were just doing what we thought needed to be done right at the time. And it was like, oh shit, there's people over that are hurt, we have to go help them, right? And I think that just becomes like instinctual at some point. Um, you don't even think about that, like, oh wow, there could be a secondary VBID, or it could be an ambush, or you just you're like, hey, those Marines need to get Medivac, let's just get there, right? And I don't think anyone did like I'm sure people did like me, you know, did really heroic things, but thinking back on it now is probably just more of like that was just instinctual at that time, like that was what we had to do.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Yeah, yeah, it was I agree with that sentiment. You didn't you didn't think about what you were doing at the time that was any big deal, but uh it I mean it certainly is.

SPEAKER_00 38:33

Yeah, it would. I mean, it it definitely was. I mean, there's there was there was definitely some some cases, I think, throughout you know, all of our time there that like if we didn't get there when we got there, didn't metax someone, you know, it it might have you know changed the outcome versus you know made the outcome a lot better.

SPEAKER_03 38:50

Yeah. Well, there's a couple things that happened in June. I'll refresh your memory and see if you remember anything about it. And I'm I'm I'm definitely curious to hear your journey in July, but I'll I'll we'll start with June. So it's a couple things in June. There was a big bug hunt, it was the biggest, longest bug hunt uh that I can recall. It was bug hunt number two, and that started before sunup and before sundown on June 1st. On June 7th, I was drunk.

SPEAKER_00 39:15

I was drunk that night, so that was my that was my 21st birthday.

SPEAKER_03 39:19

Nice.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 39:21

Yeah, yeah, you already talked about that one. June 7th was when um General Mattis and his LAV convoy was attacked uh out on Racetrack Road, and we responded as QRF. Um there was June 8th was the there was those gas shells that hit Hurricane Point, went into the mortar, the gas went into the mortars hooch, and then hit also hit the palace. Uh the snipers were killed on June 21st.

SPEAKER_00 39:47

Yeah, the sniper, the sniper ones I definitely remember. Um, you know, some of the I mean I think the other there was somewhere in there, and I think it had to do with maybe the sniper, so maybe it was right after, where um there were some, let's call them, I guess, spooks that came in, and they were going like house to house in the middle of the night. Um I don't know, I don't think I was close enough. I don't know if they were grabbing people or looking. I I think it was right after the snipers, if I'm not mistaken. It was right around that time.

Mass Casualty Response And A Small World

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Um and I remember doing some some wild nighttime patrols where like we're like completely under the cover of dark, you know, we were like let you know getting these getting these guys into uh into um into like houses. And I think a few of us that if I'm not mistaken, were even like dressed up um like in in robes and like uh and the right like the attire to kind of blend in. I wasn't, but I remember a couple guys worked.

SPEAKER_03 40:50

Yeah, I mean that was uh that was when we had sent a 10 man attachment from us to Delta and Delta was was using you know using our guys, our Marines. Yeah, that was Sakaki and Neil and a bunch of other guys, Langford and a bunch of other guys.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I remember so I I think that was like kind of that time frame. Um yeah, I mean, like I said, some of it, some of it's a blur. I don't have too much, too many memories. Um and I'm I'm sure if you went into like specific things, you you would. I I will tell you what though, one of my biggest memories is the smell of burning rubber. Like uh from those nights when they, you know, we if you remember, I I think they would use it, they would burn, they would burn rubber, burn tires. Um, usually around like where we were set up, we'd all of a sudden see like a burning tire somewhere. That that smell and burning trash and rubber. That smell from those nights. I would like I'll never forget that. If I ever smell it now, like it takes me right back to uh to Ramadi.

SPEAKER_04 41:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Yeah. You know, I I I've you know, sometimes you see like you know, you you you got tires on fire, something you'll smell it. I'm like, oh my god, that reminds me of Iraq.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

Well, you mentioned it before. I and I didn't, I guess I didn't realize it was July 4th, but I'm actually glad you told me I knew it was in July. I remember it was hot, but I didn't remember when. You got into a heated, a heated volleyball game.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

And uh it was right after we cooked the steaks with our lighters. Um and uh we were I think we were playing Matt 3. We were going against them, and I think it was it was Webster and I both like I dove for the ball and basically dove into his shoulder. And he just completely broke, and my jaw just broke. Um and it was like two days, and it was like two days after, or day and a half, maybe it was. We were trying to figure out like if I could stay, and they were like, no, we gotta med, we gotta send you to I think I might have gone to LSI, that's I think where I went first. Um but it was by it was by uh like they heloed me there. Um and then I spent like two or three days there, I think, and they were just trying to decide whether to like wire it shut or leave it because it was like a high up fracture. So wiring it shut like for I think for like the long term, like I I don't remember exactly, but there's like different ways to break your jaw. Um and like a higher fracture, um, you're not supposed to wire shut um because it doesn't it doesn't help the healing process. Um so they decided not to, and then from there, I think that again now it had to have been like probably July 7th or 8th at some point. They uh they sent me to Germany. Um and from there, you know, I went to had x rays and went to the hospital there and went to Frankfurt, I think it was. Um I probably spent about a week there, week and a half, just waiting. Um, and then I actually knew you guys were coming home, I think, before you guys did. Because the whole point of me going there was to basically come back to the to the unit. Um it was like they were like, hey, you're not gonna be able to go back to like combat operation. We'll just send you back to your unit. And I figured I'd go, you know, work in the headquarter, you know, hooch or whatever. Um and then there was like there was some like rule. I don't I don't I don't remember exactly what it was, but you guys didn't have like enough time left for me to come back. So it's I maybe it was like under six weeks or seven, whatever it was. Um and then and that's how we knew I was like, oh shit, they're they're they're gonna come home. We're they're coming home in like I think it was, I think we thought it was like the end of August, because this was like again, now I'm like almost in mid-July. Um okay. And so like, hey, we're gonna send you home as there was there was a couple others that came back too as like the early um I forgot what they called it. An advanced party? An advanced party, yeah. So like, hey, we're just gonna send you with the advanced party, and then I got back to Camp Pendleton, uh which took a couple days, and then like a couple days after that, like maybe four or five days after that, the actual advanced party came back to Camp Pendleton. Um, interesting. So I was like a couple days ahead of them, which is why they were like, We're not sending you back. And then we we basically helped get like the barracks ready and um full transparency. It was like kind of like a vacation, like we couldn't really do anything, but there was like 12 of us, yeah. And and Camp Pendleton was like a ghost town. Um there wasn't much to do. Um, and we just kind of like hung out and waited, I think, for you guys to get back. Um, and then like I I don't I didn't remember exactly when it was. I think it was you know late August or mid-September or something like that. Um, but yeah, that's that's what it was. It was me and Webster just I I dove for the ball and I dove like right into his shoulder and it just snapped.

SPEAKER_03 45:55

I that was it. I like how modest you are, and you're not like trying to be a tough guy, which is really funny, but that's not how I remembered at all as far as the cup like we the first day because you opened your mouth and it opened sideways,

Snipers Night Raids And Memory Triggers

SPEAKER_03 46:10

yeah, and it was and it was it was an open fracture, like Doc was looking in your mouth and like the bones sticking out, and you're like, I don't care, I'm not leaving. And uh we're like if you can't fucking eat drink, you're like uh you gotta go, dude.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

That's what it was. That's what it was. That's why it took like two or three days. I think they sent me to to El Side.

SPEAKER_03 46:30

Was that well you were you stayed with the platoon for a couple of days, and you're like, I'm fine, I'll do it. You were like still smoking, and I was like, You shouldn't be smoking, and you're like, I'll be fine, shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_00 46:40

And I was like, Okay, they couldn't they couldn't get me food. That was it. So like they were I remember being like trying to stay, and they got me like I don't know, maybe it was like five or six of those like ensure drinks, like the insure drinks that's like and they were like, listen, they're like, we're gonna have to send you because we don't have any more. And I was like, and it got to a point, like you just you you can't eat, you know. Um, and I I think somewhere in that process, and I don't remember if you guys remember this, but like everyone like ran through our platoon, like we all got like I think it was called like dysentery or whatever, like basic puking, and just you know, it was so it was like it was like right after that that I got that my job. So I think it was like we were ready, all like depleted. Um and uh and doc was like, hey, we don't have any more of these. Like we got like the only five that we had on base. Um, and we can't I don't want like we can't not have you eat. Um so it was like a couple days, and that's and that's when they sent me, and that's when I thought I was gonna come back. I was like, all right, fine, I'll go, I'll go get checked out. And then I remember from going like the LSOD, I was like, I'm gonna get like a another case of like insure, and I thought I was coming back, and then they were like, No, we're gonna send you to Germany. And then even in Germany, I thought I was coming back, um, and never never made it, never made it back. I I think there was like some guilt that I felt like not being able to be with you guys to the end. Um and that was hard. I remember that like when we were back before Oki, there was another unit, I don't know if it was 3-5 or 1-5 or going, and they were looking for people. And I remember like debating, jumping on that like deployment. Um, because like, but I was like, that's not gonna take away how I feel, like that's gonna be with somebody else, right? Um like I kind of just wanted to finish the deployment with you guys. Um, but listen, it is what it is, you know. You you you know, there's only so much you can control. Um, but yeah, that was that was uh an interesting time. I mean, listen, I I I I did it, like I said, it it was kind of fun to be on Camp Pendleton, you know, waiting for you guys to come back. And uh and um and I there was probably like 12 people in the entire battalion that was there. Like I was it was like it was like nobody. Um, I remember like we'd have like formation in the morning and then I'd go work out and we'd try to figure out what to do with like the rest of the day. Like um, and then I remember we had to get like again get the barracks ready for you guys. Um but after that was done, it was like, what are we gonna do till they get back? So it was it was kind of nice to hang out for uh uh uh a few weeks before you guys got back. But I couldn't go home, so I couldn't like my family. I remember my family came out to see me, but I wasn't allowed to go home. Like I went on leave the same time you guys got back.

SPEAKER_04 49:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:34

Sure. So I didn't get to like go home and hang out with family or anything like that. But uh but I do remember there, I I and even I say now, like there was definitely some guilt. I I definitely wanted to finish the deployment with you guys, and that was that was tough.

SPEAKER_03 49:48

Yeah, that you answered that's why I stopped myself, is because you answered the question I was gonna ask is if you had any hard feelings about being there when

Broken Jaw Medevac And Coming Home Early

SPEAKER_03 49:55

never when nobody else was.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Yeah, um, definitely I definitely did. Um, and it wasn't any bad feelings that like anybody, obviously it was a complete accident, right? Probably more my fault than anything else. Um, like you know, who in why why was I taking a volleyball game so seriously, you know.

SPEAKER_03 50:13

I because you're a 21-year-old Marine, that's why.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Yeah, like you know, I was just being it's it's life and death, yeah. Yeah, um, you know, but um but yeah, and then listen, I I gotta tell you, and I'm I don't know how much you get into it with you know other people. I I will say, like, and I know you know people obviously stay in, but for the people that got out, like that time frame in my life, I think, really helped me, you know, depending on how you define success, right? Like, really helped me become successful in the second phase of my life. Um and I think that you know, a lot of guys don't give themselves enough credit for for that or do enough compare, you know, can comparison to the two. You know, like listen, you know, raising kids is a great thing. It's chaotic sometimes, right? And not trying to compare the two, but um, you know, sometimes I sit there and I think about it when all the shit, you know, gets a little crazy at home. I'm like, I'll look at my wife and be like, you know, hey, I I've dealt with worse. Like if this is what we have to deal with, we're we're good, you know? And it really it helps it helps it helps you in those in those situations where you know there's definitely people that don't have those types of experiences, um, and they they can't deal with it, you know. Um so I I cherish that that time in my life, you know, people ask me about it. I always say, like, you know, and this probably doesn't sound great, but I'm like, it's like a Friday night football game. Like you practice all week long, and then you get your your game day. And I think that's what you know, it kind of as as messed up as that might sound. I think that's kind of what it felt like when we came home. Is that like that was our like we we planned, we trained, and then that was our game day.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Yep. That's a good way to put it. And I mean, you're not wrong. It uh it gives you perspective that that that might be the crucial key. So we've I've mentioned this with other people on other podcasts. It's it's interesting to me how many people from Weapons Company became, went the full distance, became Sergeant Majors. There are some there are some people from Weapons Company who are in very high key positions right now. I mean, obviously uh General Weiler being a an obvious example, but Sergeant Major Cook and uh other other people who went into really high uh prestigious positions of of advising different groups and stuff like that. Um plenty of people who are successful in other aspects, right? You're successful in business. There's other people who are you know have PhDs and have all this stuff, and just I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 52:46

It's it's became doctors, you know? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:51

It's a fascinating, it's a fascinating group of people, and perspective might be the the real key element of it, because no matter how bad it gets when you're right, you're you were you were talking about earlier you're super busy with everything because it's your summer busy season. Like even then you're like, Well, I it's not that cold and uh no one's shooting at me and my jaw's not broken. I can eat something other than in shirt. Right? Like there's I agree.

SPEAKER_00 53:17

I mean, I I find myself now, even you know, 20 something years later, like just kind of even checking myself. Like sometimes I'm like, I'll get stressed out and be like, you know what, dude, this is not this is not worse. I I we've we've handled stuff like this before. Um, you know, and and not obviously in the same circumstances, right? But you know, it just it helps. And and I think that like when you kind of go down memory lane a little bit and start to remember some of these, you know, individual moments or platoon moments, or just you know, the actual time you spent there, you start to realize, like, wow, we really did a lot. Um, we put our bodies, our minds completely to the test, you know. And it and I think again, like if you can you can separate the fact that one is combat and one is real life. Um, not that combat is not real life, but you know, you're in the the civilian world now. Like, I I think it really helps put things into perspective. Yeah, and I think it's helped me a tremendous amount, to be honest. Um, I've I've always valued my like really valued my time um with 2-4 with our platoon and and our and our deployment. I I really look back and

Perspective After War And Brotherhood

SPEAKER_00 54:25

again wish some of the outcomes could have been different, but I I value, I value that, I really do value that time. And think that like it was a good it was a good pathway to you know, again, being successful in what I'll call like and everyone's success, you know, meter is different. Uh oh for sure.

SPEAKER_03 54:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:46

But I measure as success, you know. Um and I think I think it really helped pave that way.

SPEAKER_03 54:53

Well, whether you intended to or not, you uh wrapped this all up with a nice bow. Uh anything else you want you want to cover that we didn't cover in the I mean it's been a couple hours even.

SPEAKER_00 55:03

Yeah, no, I mean no, I think we we cover a lot. Again, listen, like I think when I first started hearing these, and and I said it to you, I think, when we talked last time, like the fact that you guys are doing this is amazing because you know, we do. It's 20 years later, we're all a little bit older. You know, you start to you start to forget certain things, you start to forget names, you know, people you haven't spoken to. We we you know mentioned some names today in some of the podcasts. Like, I haven't heard that person's name in in so long, and then I and I have memories of them, you know, even just in being in Camp Pendleton, right? Like, I've got memories, you know, there's there's people I haven't, and I don't want to say haven't thought about in a bad way, but like their name or you know, face hasn't come up in in so long. And you know, go and listen to these and hearing some of the stories, I'm like, oh well, remember that one time, you know, when I did this, or remember that one time we went out and did that. Like, there's other positive things that that this is coming, uh, or that comes from this, and I think it's great, man. I I I really am. I really don't talk about talk about it a lot, and I was you know a little hesitant, as you obviously could see. Um, but then like I was like, you know what, this has brought me joy. Um, you know, and and some of the memories are are been great. So I wanted to do it.

SPEAKER_01 56:14

So I'm I'm glad that you did, man. Thanks, thank, thanks for taking the time, man.

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Um, and I appreciate you guys for doing this. Like I said, I think this is a great, a great thing. And you know, I I hope there's not anyone out there, you know, uh especially from our unit struggling. But you know, I feel like if they are, like listening to these might might even help a little bit. Um and and hopefully, you know, if they're if they are listening to them, they they hear, I'm sure you guys and my myself or anybody else, like, you know, if they are struggling, like reach out. I know it's been 20-something years, but we're all still brothers. We all went through a lot together. Um, so if that message gets out there through one of these podcasts and it helps somebody again, I I think that's great.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

Nice, man. Well, I appreciate you, man.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

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